Why do people argue Superman vs Hulk?

really this is about one strong guy who gets stronger as his anger grows and then another guy who is stronger at base strength than the first guy, can fly, has heat vision, ice breath, super speed, and better reaction speed and intelligence than the first guy.

What some people don't understand, or actually overlook, is that it does take time for Superman to become stronger (in any incarnation). He has to have the effort to become stronger, or faster, or more durable (to tank attacks - even though most are obvious), and he even has to focus to make his Heat Beams hotter. But his ability to become stronger and whatnot is highly more effective than HULK growing stronger with anger (can arguably be more effective). To put it simply, Superman is overpowered; no, this isn't a crack at him, this is stating the truth. Coming down to a point, Superman has abilities that he shouldn't have, considering his physiology and just plain "wtf?" One of those "wtf" powers is cold breath; I get how it works, but why it works the way it does doesn't make sense. How does Superman able to absorb solar radiation, grant him the ability to freeze objects with his breath? But it's these types of things that pull people like me away from a character. HULK, on the one hand, seems to possess a more promising power in that it's realistic; especially since his sub-powers (the ability to interact with ghostly sentience) has been documented in real life. People can relate to HULK rather than Superman.

The problem is that people are arguing the wrong hulk for the thread. If you want "hulk vs superman" then Superman wins. Period. If you want the hulk to beat superman, make a thread called "superman vs hulk who's mad enough to beat superman" and then hulk will still lose because superman has retarted levels of endurance and can't actually he physically dismembered, allowing him to inevitably wake up, get a tan in the core of the sun, then literally walk a burning man-shaped hole through the un-amped thing. No matter what, the thread won't be fair unless hulks already powered up. Superman threads have literally no point until that new dbz series comes out and elaborates wtf a super saiyan god can actually do

Because they love one or both of these characters, they have formed an opinion and they enjoy getting their points out there for everyone to see.

Everyone wants their favorite to beat Superman in a fight.

i love beast, but im not gonna make a beast vs superman thread

I like both. When I see these threads putting them against each other, I ask my mom what to do. She tells me to close my eyes and not to worry. :)

@inconvenient_truth: You want to talk about fanboys? Try the Silver Surfer fanboys. Its like trying to argue with an eel about global warming. They believe he can be stopped by nobody, even though he isn't even that special.

What compelled you to include Silver Surfer fanboys into this debate? There's no need for it. It's like if I said, "And with every battle on ComicVine, there's always going to be a Superman fanboy popping up randomly, just to state Superman wins." Try to keep your head above the water.

That's why i do it. I make up mid my, and if people wan to disagree and even call me names and such.

i'm cool with that and i'll still give people respect even no matte what. I still critique but don't try to be too harsh about it. The written word tends to be harsher than the spoken one.

I won't try to give people the kind of answer they may be itching to hear. I'll say what i have come to know as the truth. i know, however, that some things are not as clear as others, in which case, i'll simply go with what i think is the most logical and closest to the truth.

The majority opinion means nothing to me if the majority is most certainly wrong, no matter how small or great the wrong is.

I believe what I believe for a good reason and i invite anyone to question me. I'm not afraid to explain myself. I don't want to be right merely or the sake of being right. Although, if I know i'm right for sure about something, i wont back down and agree with the people telling me i'm wrong because they're pressuring me.

Discussions are fine and dandy until they turn into flame wars/trash talking sessions.

This is where I stand on the matter.

im just saying hulk doesnt have FTL reactions or strikes just because he has gamma rays in him. you have to prove it by showing him doing it

@angryhulks: Nanosecond is 1x10-9h power or 1 /1,000,000,000 of a second - one billionth of a second.

The Flash move at pico second is 1x10-12th power or 1/,000,000,000,000 of a second. So no way Superman move that fast, it is P.I.S. Your First Picture you post of Superman speed is clearly P.I.S. No way he could move at that speed without killing the infant. And you can see that he is also struggling at that speed....Not to mention the different writer giving him a boost in his power set.

Why the build up you say? Because I already told you he do not move at that speed automatically. People assume he can move at the speed auto like the Flash, but he do not.

I know all about the panel of Superman racing The Flash. I'm the one whom brought it up in the first place. And again, you do not measure the speed of light in mach, that is supersonic speed you measure in mach. This been done over about a thousand threads discussing speed in threads. Anyway, They was racing in supersonic speed, keep in mind that Wally was not taking it serious. Please go back to refresh you memory and read that comic again. It tell you that they are racing in supersonic speed (mach) and The Flash tell you Superman is flexing his muscle just to keep up with The Flash and he was struggling to keep up with him, this is before The Flash stop playing around with Superman and took off then left him in the dust. He reach light speed to leave Superman in the Dust, and Superman did not reach light speed at all, not even just under light speed.

To say he is light speeder is to say Black Adam and Captain Marvel is also a light speeder too. That is wrong, because Like you and I say he is slower than Jay Garrick, but Jay Garrick was racing Black Adam at (supersonic speed) mach 500 and he was beating Jay Garrick until Jay Garrick speed seal from him just to win. He also fought Jay Garrick at those speeds. So it mean Black Adam and Captain Marvel is faster than Superman, That is also wrong, because Superman, Black Adam, and Captain Marvel are all equals. Do you not see how not constant Superman speed is. He has different writer whom give him different speed set, plus they are also different Superman that everyone compare to another different Superman power set.

Wonder Woman was not just boasting. She in truth blitz Superman at times and so have Maxima.

You should not disagree that Superman is only Mach 500, and I'm sure they have scans in those threads to prove it. Those scans of above you are talking about Are different Superman or writers view of Superman speed, which only makes him not constant to what he can do.

You can not debunk Superman Speed being measure mach. Because he is faster than a speeding bullet...And a speeding bullet travel at the speed of sound, which only means he is indeed supersonic speed. So you should measure him in mach speed because Supersonic speed is measure in mach. And it is true, because they went science on us with that one.

@inconvenient_truth:

You can't literally see something going at light-speed, no matter how well iliustrated in a comic.

How does gamma rays not make you fast??? It certainly works well for anyone else in comics. Why not Hulk??

flash goes light speed and itll usually say it on panel. if hulk has some feats like that prove it.

Doomsday doesn't have to worry about not breathing does he? So that would be an effortless attempt to kill a foe.

Ok... first off because of the way this is put it shouldn't this be in the discussion forum instead of the battle forum. The Op didn't set this up as any kind of competition but as a simple of, "Why do people argue Superman vs. Hulk." Secondly you guys seem to have gotten off that topic and turned it into a Superman V. Hulk thread..... not that I mind really as you've answered the posters question through action. It's just an interesting fight to discuss. That right there's the answer to the posters question. As far as the actual fight goes I gotta say Superman because even though I'm the rare person that say's Hulk can have a fast enough reaction speed to tag Superman, it takes a long time for him to amp up to that level. Superman can speed blitz and knock him out or BFR him long before any of that happens.

Superman's reaction time is on nanosecond time frame, Flash's reaction is up to attosecond time frame, Flash is far faster so what's the point of comparing when that's already a common knowledge? Flash being faster than Superman does not prevent Superman from having his own record.

Even Flash have acceleration, is his acceleration is just way faster than Superman and most of the comic characters. Even Flash said that he still have to accelerate, not quite instantaneous speed.

The scan clearly stated that they're running at 2000 miles a second, and I know Flash beat him in the end, but Superman already kills Black Adam's record by 19 times. Not to mention Black Adam and Captain Marvel have poorer speed and reaction feats than Superman.

I'm not trying to prove that Superman is as fast as Flash, I'm proving that Superman is faster than Mach 500. Why are you acting like I'm trying to debunk the common knowledge that Flash is faster than anyone here?

From my experience, anything faster than reentry speed (around Mach 20) is too awkward to be measured in Mach, after Mach 9000, we pretty much use percent of c.

I didn't finish addressing every points you make yet, but I will soon.

And sorry for many edits, if it flooded your inbox, I'm just adding more points anytime new idea comes up.

@terry2012: And you know that once you reach relativistic speed, the gap between speed starts getting large. You know how big the difference between 99.99% and 99.9% the speed of light is (I'm making up example here so you can get the idea).

If you assume Flash is reaching light speed during the end of the race, using only some sense of art, Superman must be at least 90% the speed of light judging from that distance between them. If Flash is going the speed of light, and Superman is 99%, Superman would still be 2,997,925 m/s a second behind him, which means ideally he would be about 3,000 km away from Flash at any instant point in time, that's a continent away out of sight.

People like to argue?

@angryhulks: Superman's reaction time is on nanosecond time frame, Flash's reaction is up to attosecond time frame, Flash is far faster so what's the point of comparing when that's already a common knowledge? Flash being faster than Superman does not prevent Superman from having his own record.

Even Flash have acceleration, is his acceleration is just way faster than Superman and most of the comic characters. Even Flash said that he still have to accelerate, not quite instantaneous speed.

The scan clearly stated that they're running at 2000 miles a second, and I know Flash beat him in the end, but Superman already kills Black Adam's record by 19 times. Not to mention Black Adam and Captain Marvel have poorer speed and reaction feats than Superman.

I'm not trying to prove that Superman is as fast as Flash, I'm proving that Superman is faster than Mach 500. Why are you acting like I'm trying to debunk the common knowledge that Flash is faster than anyone here?

From my experience, anything faster than reentry speed (around Mach 20) is too awkward to be measured in Mach, after Mach 9000, we pretty much use percent of c.

I didn't finish addressing every points you make yet, but I will soon.

And sorry for many edits, if it flooded your inbox, I'm just adding more points anytime new idea comes up.

I compare them to show you that he is not as fast as you think he is. I never said that he did.

Not quite, but darn near, but I'm talking about Flash hit light speed auto and of course he have to accelerate. People still try to compare Superman Speed with the Flash and it have been proven over and over again that Supes is not near him.

That one scan, but finish putting up the other scans of that race, and in those other scans it still say supersonic speed. There is a thread with the entire scans of that race. You not telling me anything I do not know. No, Black Adam and Captain Marvel do not have poorer reaction time speeds. They are the same as Superman, but with only magic power set. Otherwise he would not have so much problem with Black Adam and Captain Marvel. By the way, That 2,000 miles per second is still mach speed, so that means they never left supersonic speed, and they maintain in supersonic speed for a while until Flash stop playing around like he told Supes as I have say before. So, no way he could have kill Black Adam record 19 times, because you just say That Superman is a little bit slower than Jay Garrick and Jay Garrick was losing to Black Adam in a race until he speed steal.

I'm not arguing the Flash is faster than everyone, I'm arguing the mach 500 speed of Superman. Because he only went that speed twice, and only went mach 9000 once plus it was a different Superman from a different timeline that went that speed.

No worried.

If you assume Flash is reaching light speed during the end of the race, using only some sense of art, Superman must be at least 90% the speed of light judging from that distance between them. If Flash is going the speed of light, and Superman is 99%, Superman would still be 2,997,925 m/s a second behind him, which means ideally he would be about 3,000 km away from Flash at any instant point in time, that's a continent away out of sight.

No he is not 90% of that speed according to the statement Superman made. You should checkout SlimJ87D post on Superman Speed. I think he have a Respectable Thread of Superman.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/slimj87d/blog/supermans-speed/78870/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/check-my-math-goku-vs-superman-speed-ranking-with--734971/

Scroll down to read about superman speed from SlimJ87D. Read what he say about when he compare Superman to Black Adam.

I read up SlimJ87D's posts until I could scored 100 on his exam already (I found this post for months now), and I disagree with him. Though I don't prefer debating with him, so I'm making separated discussion with you.

Supersonic is broad term, but from how I was educated, supersonic range ended at Mach 5, beyond that is transonic speed, then reentry speed. After Mach 20-30, there're no real term to describe that. But at 1% the light speed or above (as well as 2,000 miles/second feats), it's called a "relativistic speed." While 2,000 miles/seconds is only 1/100 of the light speed, it's significantly faster than Mach 500.

I'm not comparing Superman to Flash, I never do, the race between Superman and Flash is just giving us an idea on how fast Superman is. But all writers have one consistent thing, when it comes to speed, they usually compared one character to either Superman or Flash. Of course, all writers keep Superman's speed second to the slowest Flash. I still withheld to the idea that Superman is almost as fast as Jay Garrick (it's credible because Superman can watch photon whizzing to the air patiently thanks to his nanosecond reaction time). Believe it or not, Barry and Wally can make Jay Garrick appeared as a statue as well. Also, Shazam avatars never displayed speed feats like Superman like speed reading, nanosecond second reaction times (Superman show it at least twice), observing photon moving through relatively short distance, observing chemical reaction process (which can take shorter than nanosecond), vibrate fast enough to become invisible etc. I don't even recall them capable of speed blitzing.

Jay Garrick only beats Black Adam in the race, but he never actually show to be faster than Superman in any point in DC history. Black Adam is falling behind Jay at Mach 500 before Jay steal his speed to humiliate him, but it's different on Superman vs Jay Garrick case. Superman did not fall behind Jay Garrick during the race at any point, in fact, Jay even make an admittance that they're pretty much on par with each other, but when Superman is gaining an upper hand on catching Wally, Jay said sorry and speed steal. That's not even close to similar case between Black Adam vs Jay Garrick and Superman vs Jay Garrick.

Superman never overcome Captain Marvel and Black Adam speed is pretty much the same argument as why the Flash is being beaten up by the Rouges and slower characters, they both hold back their speed. Flash usually keep his speed to only few Mach as well. Also, Flash don't always have easy time getting to light speed, as Wally still need Jay and Bart's amp just to accelerate to the speed of light nearly instantly. The narrator have lampshaded Superman's shameful moment on his speed by stating that he mentally multitask, calculating his every movements to minimize environmental damage, so that's why he held back his speed in Earth's atmosphere. Flash when the writer wants can just give him speed force aura to prevent environmental damage, Superman don't have that luxury (though he occasionally ignored this effect), as in the scan when Wally and Superman is racing, at 2,000 miles/second, Superman already punched holes on the street for every steps he made.

All the mentioned feats belongs to post-crisis, New Earth Superman, there's no point of me bringing up non-canon version to the debate. It's consistent that Superman displayed more insane speed feats (and beating up Wonder Woman) than the low feats on speed, it's just that few scans of his lower feats are somehow more prominent even though there're actually more displays of higher feats.

Infact! Hulk can't even compete with Superman's speed...

@name55555: He can not even compete with Spider-Man

@angryhulks: But like he said, Superman Has not outperform Black Adam. And the on panel said Hypersonic speed in that race. Superman also got beat up by Wonder Woman.

Yeah, but don't expect the writers to have good scientific knowledge. He give out the quantity of 2,000 miles per second and he said that's hypersonic which in reality is not a correct term to describe that speed.

There're many Black Adam vs Superman thread in the past, and it's generally agreed that bloodlusted Superman would beat Black Adam.

Wonder Woman is not designed to be a slow character, so it doesn't hold much weight on Superman's speed. She had beat up Zoom and landed hits on Wally, both while being blindfolded so I'm not really surprised.

Ironic, this coming from a likely Surftard. Notice how you think I support Supes, even though I haven't mentioned him on this thread. I'm just saying the Surftards are annoying, and need to be pitied.

@hardcorefakes: No need for insulting people, please.

Not a battle. Someone please move this out of the battles section.

"Surftard". What a terrible insult. Don't try to make that a thing, because it isn't.

Grundy and Doomsday have proven you don't have to be a super speedster to give Superman a good fight. Why is it so hard for all of the narrow minded DC fanboys to see Hulk giving him a run for his money too?

Circumstances would allow for either of them to win. IMO, it really depends on which version of the characters you use.

I'll take the blame. Because I'm Batman.

Like PC Superman trumps any Hulk. But WB Hulk or WWH trumps any Superman except PC.

Because people are stupid. That's why people argue it.

1. This is not the silver age, Superman cannot lift planets anymore.

2. You ask why people debate this then you claim that Hulk stands no chance which will obviously spark a debate. You are either a troll or not very forward thinking.

Only reason why Doomsday killed him was because a boat load of CIS and PIS. Superman was defending the city and if he actually fought smart people would've died. And Grundy is just bad writing.

Superman isn't stupid, why the Hell is someone who can fly going to just stand there while his opponent gets madder and madder? Even if Hulk gets up to strength levels that he can beat Superman (I don't think he can) then why the Hell is Clark gonna stand there and make it a fist fight?

Hey I'm not sure about this but... what if superman just takes him into outer space and leaves him floating around until he suffocates or turns into Banner and dies?

Basically, or toss him into the sun. Doesn't seem to be within Superman's moral code though, so it's unlikely he would do that. If his morals are off he would likely do something that simple.

Superman would easily beat Hulk, he stronger and faster, When they first met Superman threw Hulk around like a wipe.

I don't know - Hulk's green --- kryptonite's green. Think about it.

Both Hulk and Superman are great characters, there 2 of the strongest characters in comics. Even thought I think Hulk really strong, Superman is stronger.

People dont read Superman, here's an example:

We all know this is blatantly false. Here's the scan:

The issue goes on to say that in those 5 days, Superman WAS NOT exposed to a Yellow Sun, and the the whole ordeal made Superman only have on drop of sweat. The issue also says Superman's actual limits could only be tested by tapping into a trans-dimensional wormhole. Superman is mindnumbingly strong, and he is Hulk's superior in strength by no small margin.

In the first Doomsday appearance, it is stated that he is faster than the Flash. Later appearances conflict with this, imo, but its worth noting at the time of Superman's death, DD's reflexes and speed were second to none. Also, as others have said, Supes had to use himself as a shield for Metropolis, and was of course in character.

In Hunter/Prey, the next conflict between the two, Superman actually wins by blitzing DD and BFRing him at the END OF TIME. Its also worth noting that in that arc DD still had incredible reflexes, far better than Hulk possesses for certain, and even evolves mid-fight to respond to Superman, including Bone Harpoons laced with Kryptonite poison. Thats right, DD harpoons Superman with his kryptonite laced bone spurs, catches him right in the air. DD actually outpaces a being of pure energy, called the Radiant.

DD is MUCH faster than Hulk, and you presume much to even imply that Hulk is his peer in power (he's not even close, DD would tear Hulk apart).

In an actual comic book fight, Supes vs Hulk would be cool. Supes would win, as he traditionally has in their fights, but it would be a great toe to toe slugfest. An actual fight between the two, however, would end in less than a millisecond as Superman just BFRed him to the Sun, or a Sun a couple of galaxies away.

In my eyes Hulk always stands a chance against Superman ! There's just no real way to permanently finish Hulk off ! It hurts me soul when people say Supes Blitzez hulk n rips his head off ! The blitz is plausible ... The head rip off is utterly ridiculous ! Again my opinion ! Even if Supes BFR's banner, he'll come back ! He always does ! From whatever comic book strength feat or plot device ... Hulk will return Madder than ever !

There are so many ramifications you can't put it so simply

I think i might be wrong but in Jason Aaron and Marc Silvestri's Incredible Hulk issues, Hulk is separated permanently form Banner right?

Just threw this question off topic, if anyone feels to answer it would be appreciated.

Not to cause a larger burden on you, but notice how I never stated, nor implied you supported Superman. I used my own analogy for Superman fanboys as you used Silver Surfer fanboys. And I'm just saying the Superman fanboys are just as annoying as any other fanboy.

@hardcorefakes: I'm guessing you have no clue how powerful he is because you wouldn't be posting that it you knew.

@pokemondefender: Well it's generally due to morals.

But if you talk of power source Hulk's is gamma and Supe's is solar. If memory serves me right gamma is more powerful than solar energy.. But it's the comics DC writes Supe's at a very high base level, Marvel doesn't do that. Most argument about these guys are base on their basic strength and speed level.

But the fact is Supe's can throw Hulk in space without him even knowing it.. But he won't base on morals and the way his being written most of the times anyways..=)

@texasdeathmatch:

Butthurt?

Who knows? Why do we argue any comic character vs. any other comic character?