Why Clark Kent and John Stewart Should Be The Ultimate Duo

There are several great superhero team-ups in comics like Superman/Batman, Green Lantern/Flash, Iron Man/War Machine, The Heroes for Hire, etc. The close friendships on the written page provide writers and artists with the opportunity to explore key facets of a character's personality. For this to be truly effective, a pair must be as different as possible while remaining in the same realm of morality and believability. For this reason, I've always believed that Clark Kent (Superman) and John Stewart (Green Lantern) should be one of the most interesting pairings in comics, but, for some reason, their relationship hasn't been explored very much.

Let's look at the dichotomies that make this pair interesting.

• First of all, you have two distinct personalities: the bright, optimistic civilian who becomes a vigilante and the gruff, realistic marine who is appointed by an outside force to protect others.
• You have a reverse fish-out-of water dichotomy as well. One is an alien sent to live on Earth early in his life while the other is called to space later in his life.
• One has an internal power set enhanced by a natural body (the sun) while the other has an external power set powered by a crafted body (the lantern).
• One grew up as a working class boy on a farm in rural Kansas. The other grew up as a working class boy in an apartment building in in urban Michigan.
• One is a professional who uses words to his advantage to illustrate ideas and concepts. The other is a numbers person who crafts physical manifestations of his imagination with and without his power.
• One has a power set better suited for close range combat (strength, speed, invulnerability, flight) while the other has a power set suited for long range combat (hard light constructs, flight). Both are at the top of their fields in terms of power sets.
• The two characters have no overlapping colors when in costume.
• The two characters fit the classic buddy cop trope of white cop, black cop.
• The physics, histories, power levels, and costume designs of both characters easily fit into the same world.

What kind of relationship could these characters have? Think Danny Rand and Luke Cage or Mr. Incredible and Frozone. It should be a funny give-and-take relationship in which the two characters are close friends who play off each other well but have plenty of differences. The could talk about adjusting to different worlds, their love lives, common alien foes, etc. Unlike other comics relationships, the two characters could switch off on being the straight man like Luke and Danny do. Some other team ups have a very rigid straight man/funny guy dynamic. The two just fit into each other's worlds very easily. I'm surprised DC hasn't given this more thought--especially since bother characters have history as social crusaders, which would allow writers to tell certain stories that are less commonly told today at the big 2--the ones with valuable social commentary.

Thoughts?

Also, if you're not reading Jensen/Venditti's Green Lantern Corps or Snyder's Superman Unchained, then you're doing something wrong.

'Til next time, viners!

Their relationship hasn't been explored very much because they don't actually have one ---- these are two characters who barely speak to each other except on rare occasions. Every other relationship you've mentioned has had some reason for existing, or for coming about relatively organically. Superman and Batman serve on the same team, and are DC's biggest characters. Green Lantern/Flash is a DC tradition that dates back to Alan Scott and Jay Garrick, and proximity was the main factor behind that relationship as well --- Alan and Jay fought side-by-side in WWII, and were members of the JSA. Rhodes helped Stark get free of Wong-Chu's prison (although I believe he was written into an existing origin, can't confirm) and has effectively been around since the early days of Iron Man. Likewise Iron Fist and Luke Cage becoming a team after the proximity factor was introduced by putting them on the same book and renaming the title.

John's only major associations with Superman came about during short stints on the JLA as the replacement Lantern for Kyle and Hal. He inevitably left once they came back. They have no real connection to each other. Plus some of your dichotomies are reaching quite a bit ---- I could probably put together a list of contrasts and similarities for Superman and any other member of the League ---- Diana, Barry, Hal, J'onn, name it. It's just a natural outcome of contrasting a character who is so archetypal that his fundamentals are largely monolithic by now with another character whose fundamentals aren't quite as fundamental and can be reinterpreted a dozen different ways to fit the monolith.

1. All the relationships you listed were created by the efforts of writers or writers, they did not happen organically. Nothing in comics does. If a writer wants a Superman/Green Lantern relationship, there is nothing that could stop him/her. Hell, Johns is creating a Shazam/Cyborg abomination. Those two characters weren't even created by the same company and have never been on the same roster together. Does it matter? No.
2. As you point out, John and Clark have been on a team together and exist in the same universe. No reason a relationship can't form.
3. The dichotomies I listed were ones I found compelling and that could provide basic fodder for story-telling. If other characters have similar ones or if YOU don't care for them, so what?
4. Your logic is basically that no one has explored a this relationship because no one before has explored this relationship. Circular. They know each other. Any writer worth their salt could make it an interesting friendship.

This is supposed to be a thread that stimulates imagination. Clearly it's failed you.

You realize there is such a thing as a writer forging a relationship organically by placing the characters in shared experiences? A blanket statement like "nothing in comics happens organically" makes literally no sense whatsoever. Character traits and inclinations are established over years of writing until a generalized account of their personalities is capable of being inferred; it's how the conceptualization of what's "in character" and "out of character" for Superman or Batman or whomever comes about. Progressions of actions and relationships that are in line with what's in character for Superman and the story-specific context he's placed in are said to be organic outcomes. These progressions don't simply happen overnight, they take years of concerted effort by a variety of writers until they become the status quo.

That moment in Guggenheim's JSA where Jay went berserk and tried to kill Drachen for breaking Alan's neck and still managed to remain in character because that was how strong their friendship was? You think that kind of emotional connection happened overnight because some writer in the 40's just thought it would be a good idea to put a fast guy and a guy with a magic ring on a team that fought Nazis? It happened because their friendship has been built on for decades. Superman and Batman distrusted each other for years post-Crisis. They only broke the ice after overcoming their respective pre-Zero Hour miseries at the hands of Doomsday and Bane and thus developing some mutual respect. Again: years. The only thing Wally West and Kyle Rayner disliked more than each other was the notion that they should be friends because their predecessors were. They eventually warmed up to each other. Being on the same team for years on end and the established precedent helped.

That's a cute way to distort my "logic", but the point remains that these relationships are as iconic and lasting as they are because of decades of precedent backing them up. Am I saying that precedent can't be established or begun at the drop of a hat? Not at all. But there has to be an opportunity for precedent, and there isn't one for Clark and John. Saying they were on a team together so that's a start is really stretching how much they were on a team exactly. Clark was the quarterback. John was the reserve who occasionally played safety. Drawing on a professional relationship that involved basically no interpersonal communication between the two beyond a few lines here and there of standard heroizing and a few dichotomies that could be established for basically any other character and Superman and claiming that not only would this be a great friendship, it would be the DCU's ultimate friendship? As in the best that DC's got to offer? Fan-fiction forum's thataway.

I've been hearing about Shazam and Cyborg becoming BFF's for two years now and they still haven't said more than two lines to each other. When it happens, we'll talk. But hey, the two of them being regulars on a team rather than substitutes should help, and they still won't be the ultimate duo.

This is supposed to be a thread that stimulates imagination. Clearly it's failed you.

Wooh. Hostility. I trudge on nonetheless, as is my wont.

Simple question: where does precedent come from?

I literally just said so.

No, you talked about decades of build up by writers in various forms, which builds upon an established precedent. In comics, a precedent is established by a writer's want or an editors want/demand. The John/Clark relationship hasn't been explored yet because a writer hasn't wanted to do it or hasn't had the vision for it (which could have led to the want).

Your argument is that this relationship doesn't exist because it doesn't exist or that it doesn't exist because it hasn't had build up. Bull****. It doesn't exist because it hasn't been written.

Superman/Batman, Green Lantern/Flash, etc. aren't things because of build up. Don't put the cart before the horse. Those things exist because someone decided to write those things. There was a first Superman/Batman story that led to years of stories. Same with Flash and Green Lantern. Who cares if the first story is told in 1944 or 1960 or 2013? At the end of the day, precedent is set by someone deciding to do something new.

You spend so much time rationalizing this to yourself or to me or whatever. But you likely just don't want to see it which is why you've put so much effort into your rationalizations. If you wanted to see it, you wouldn't have taken the thread in this direction with your BS. If you didn't care, you wouldn't respond at all like most viewers of this post.

Let's just quit pussyfooting and be honest here.

At the end of the day, I think this is a cool pairing that I would pay money to read or watch for the reasons I listed in the OP. While I didn't see any storytelling ideas in this thread, I think there are plenty of compelling stories that can specifically be told with these two characters who I think can be written to fit well together but have not yet.

Of course, this has ruffled your feathers to some variation and degree. I think it's dumb that you'd get so worked about the possibility of a fictional relationship, but thats just me.

Seeing as you haven't driven the conversation forward and are unlikely to in future posts, I will not respond to your future posts in this thread so that I can maintain my own sanity.

@deranged_midget: Could you moved this to John Stewart forums?

This reminds me of an Outlaw Renegade forum.

Why? Would you move a Human Torch and Thing topic outside of a Fantastic Four forum?

And why not the Superman forum?

Both characters are long time Justice League members. This topic belongs here.

Someone has a vendetta against a fictional character here because the John Stewart-centered Justice League threads keep getting moved out. One of them ("Why won't DC put John Stewart on the Justice League") was moved general discussion. That's bull****. If this one is moved, I'll notify G-Man and every other staffer on this god**** site.

Does he/she even like John Stewart?

i think manhunter would be a better fit similar to supes and both characters are kinda ignored

You should be ashamed of yourself.

@the_greatest_green_lantern: Doesn't belong to this forums anyway. Notify anyone that you wanted and I will explain myself to them,I'm not afraid to talk with moderator s or staff members. Don't implied that I have vendetta or dislike a character,because you don't know me and this is my opinion, can disagree as much as you want...is your opinion after all,but almost every month this forum is flooded with things about John Stewart, while his own forum is practically abandoned, so why not post there? Fear that people do not comment or do not see it?

Actually yes. He even posts thee random questions like you do. You two could be great friends.

Why not the Superman one since his name is first? You're trying to (and succeeded in) pushing this to a forum where fewer people visit and where you and your cronies don't have to see it. This thread should not offend anyone and yet you limit my power of speech.

Let's just start moving every Justice League thread in it with any whisper of Batman or Hal Jordan or Superman and see how this **** explodes.

I like how this thread had to be moved while "Why Aquaman Could Be a Better Fit In The Trinity" which has no mention of the Justice League gets to stay.

I notified pretty much every person on this site with any kind of power of what has happened btw. This is an abuse of moderator power on no ground.

Then why not put it in the DC comics forums section? Wouldn't that make even MORE sense?

@the_greatest_green_lantern: if you think this should be moved to the Superman forums,then ask a moderator to do it,it's simple and doesn't need to keep complain,but I believe that here has many fans of this character and other green lanterns to comment on your post, so I do not see any limit because if they care to read, logically will comment. I belive you never heard about me on this site before,but I visit this forum every month to update the respect thread that I created to John Stewart.

Feel free to do it,because this doesn't affect me.

Solet's move all Human Torch and Thing thread from the fantastic for forum to the marvel comics forum. That makes sense. No one goes on the DC Comics or Marvel forums. And you know it. Why don't we move all the Aquaman threads, Batman threads, and Superman threads to the DC Comics forum as well. That makes "MORE sense" right?

So someone actually pushed this into General Discussion. Lovely. Congrats Comicvine.

Aquaman, Batman, and Superman threads stay within the forums of their own characters. This isn't a JL question, so as such it belongs in DC or general discussion. Stop acting as if there is some secret agenda behind all this.

@the_greatest_green_lantern: Sorry DC already had the Ultimate Duo

@the_greatest_green_lantern: Are you sure you don't know Outlaw Renegade, Captain13 or Superdork? From the looks of your OP, you guys would get along quite well with your shared love of John Stewart.

It's a little amazing how people can read things multiple times after they're stated multiple times and still fail to understand a single word of it, non?

Again, it is kitten-cuddlingly cute how you distort my arguments to fit a paradigm that's easier for you to ignore and dismiss, but try that trick on someone else if you actually expect something out of it.

Everyone is aware that Batman and Superman had a first story that was followed by years of stories. That is actually my point. Precedent was established because there were factors at work that facilitated the development of that precedent ---- namely proximity. Clark and John have no real proximity. They never have. One writer can certainly opt to give them some proximity in a story, but for them to actually become a status quo partnership or an ultimate duo (good grief, we certainly shoot for the stars), that proximity will have to occur across dozens of books, writers, editors and years until they become Superman and John Stewart and not just Superman guest-starring John Stewart in some filler issue or arc. Superman/Batman didn't just become a thing instantly following the original story that featured them working together. It took years of concerted effort. There is no scope of that happening anytime soon for this pairing. They don't even operate in the same galaxy anymore. Wishful thinking.

I like how you instinctively know that I put "so much effort" into my rationalizations because I just don't want to see this partnership happening. If you could read my mind, why didn't you say so in the first place? Honestly, it smacks of misplaced hubris to try and presume what I am and am not thinking because you're sore about the fact that no one thinks this is going to be the ultimate duo. But then again, you're the guy who claims that the only way I could truly be impartial about all this is to ignore you completely, so perhaps I shouldn't expect anything else.

And yeah, my feathers are ruffled. After all, I'm the one wailing about thread relocation. Oh wait, that's you.

Seeing as you haven't driven the conversation forward and are unlikely to in future posts, I will not respond to your future posts in this thread so that I can maintain my own sanity.

I'm playing the world's saddest song on the world's smallest violin, just for you.

Go right ahead if you think anyone in their right mind cares about whether a thread getting shifted from the JLA forum to General Discussion constitutes "an abuse of moderator power".

Hint: they don't. No one else is this dramatic about nothing, sunshine.

LOL, odds are good this guy's an alt account of one of those three.

@citizenbane: His writing does seem somewhat familiar to Outlaw I have to admit.

The ultimate test will be his love for Cyborg. That'll be the confirmation.

Well that's an epic thread derailment. Maybe the thread could be moved, maybe not, but let's leave that to the mods to debate. And what does the sock-puppet hunt have to do with the topic either? I don't get that instinct.

On topic: I don't see the common link. Yes, you could write any duo well together with the right team, but I always saw GL as closer to other heroes. Even in the epic Justice Leage cartoon he was more involved with Wally, Hawk Girl, Wonder Woman, and Batman in my opinion. He just didn't interact much with Superman. Certainly you could link them in a space adventure, but I don't see that as any more appropriate for John as for any other earth GL.

I don't see the hook for this team-up. Even if the goal is just to rub some prestige off of Supes onto Stewart, I would find a team-up with Batman or Wonder Woman more interesting.

This is a duo that I will never be interested in.Firstly,they have never been really close and that will play a major part in their relationship because DC won't risk into doing this.And secondly,I never liked much John Stewart and I don't want him to be connected to one of my favorite characters.

For some reason I always preferred the idea of a Shazam/John Stewart team up much more than a Shazam/Cyborg one because of many of the reasons you posted for a Superman/John Stewart team up.

Yeah no. Sorry but as much as I love John Stewart, there are tons of other people he could be an "ultimate duo" with. I always pictured him in a team up with either Captain Atom or better yet, Hal Jordan. Seriously Hal and John are two of the most famous lanterns, I'd kill to see a book with those two.

john stewart can kiss ma toes.

@joshmightbe said:

@the_greatest_green_lantern: Sorry DC already had the Ultimate Duo

AMEN to that!

Could be cool to see John teamed up with Green Arrow since the new 52 has effectively eliminated Hal and Ollie's friendship maybe GA can buddy up with another GL.

I would like to see this team up.

They are two of my favorite characters in the DCU. They would work well together. I would like to see them mix Johns strategy and attention to detail with Superman's strength and willpower.

(honestly i would create a story that showed Johns no longer needing a lantern to power his ring bc of the amount of willpower coming from him and Superman)

I wold like to see them and nightwing on a team (Among other team members)

that'd make sense. they're both "social crusaders" (although im not sure if thats stuck in the new 52 ) yet, John's just conservative enough for the two to have decent conflicts

Johns has said Simon Baz and Green Arrow will be the new GA/GL duo. I hope that happens soon because honestly, Baz has been thrown to the wayside in Trinity War which is a big shame given his development in Rise of the Third Army and Wrath of the First Lantern.

I would be ecstatic if they brought John's relationship with Shayera Hol Hawkgirl over to the comics. The Fatality thing has grown on me, but I don't know if anything will ever top the HG/GL ship.