Why can't the FF sell anymore?

I was looking at last month's figures, and FF was around 70th. (Give or take a few spots, i can't remember exactly.) I do remember it was being out-sold by Batgirl and Catwoman. Yes, the Catwoman almost everyone agrees is garbage. Now, regardless of what one thinks of the quality of the current run. (I think its pretty good.) This should never happen. One can argue the FF is he most important team book ever (along with x-Men and Justice League) It's had some great talent on it, besides Lee and Kirby. (Byrne, Simonson, etc..) It features what most would agree is a top-5 villain in history in Doom. (Top 10 at the very lest.) I know the movies from ten years back stunk up the joint, but I find it hard to believe could've hurt the comic so badly. I looked at some past sales, and when volume 2 came out, it was near the top of the list in 1996-1997. By the mid 2000's it was floating round 30 a lot of times, not great, but not bad. Aside from when the current run has its first issue, the sales have been a bit of a bummer. Marvel usually wins the Monthly best all-over sales, so I fail to understand why one of their flagship books, of much historical importance, has dropped off so much. Given this is the real team, with ben Grimm and everything. I confess, I was never much interested in "fake FF teams" (Like when Ant-man and She-Hulk were filling in, though I'm led to believe that was a good series.)The Future Foundation never did much for me either. But as soon as you get Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben together, you have a classic and great team.

Not that it answers your question but Batgirl and Catwoman ride Batman's coattails and thus will sell more than enough to maintain a series.

One simply does not resist Batman.

Marvel pretty much falls back from anything Batman related...

It is a shame because pretty much every concept in the Marvel Universe started in the Fantastic Four.

Because they're boring. :3

@jonny_anonymous: yep, pretty much. It pisses me off that marvel seems to be slowly pushing the FF into obscurity, none were on the 75th cover I believe. Bizarre considering that THEY ARE THE REASON MARVEL MAKES SUPERHERO COMICS TODAY

wrong bro lol

More or less this. Marvel doesn't want to you like them. The hardly get promotion, honestly there are second and third x-men that get pushed more

Gambit alone is more popular then all four of them combined

And I hardly hear about any big major story arcs with soely them, and I've been reading comics for about 10 years

think they boring and it might be because they took everything the FF would handle and gave it to the Avengers

They need a major upgrade.The Stories have no hype to them, nothing to look forward too.I think what marvel needs to do is bring them and Inhumans in one book.This could make for a better story.

@dathomiesilversurfer: A subjective opinion can't be wrong.

Wow this sucks

I think that a lot of it stems from the strategic pivot Marvel made when placing more of an emphasis on the Avengers than the FF.

This. I just can't get into the FF comics. The only time that I was interested was with SpiderMan and the Future Foundation.

@darling_luna: I agree with you... The last "major" story arc the FF have got with the Marvel universe was Civil War Which was, if I'm not wrong, 2006... almost a decade...

FF WOULD have gotten involved with AVX *coughFranklinisamutantCough* but Reed said no due to his family splitting up and blah blah blah!

@awesomeperson: I think both Johnny and Susan died around the same time period, I didn't know that until like a few months ago hehe

Maybe because movies and lack of importance on media.

What? Of course it can.

@darling_luna: You just don't understand the complex nature of the adventures of Stretchy Smart Man and Invisible Boobs! :3

@darling_luna: What do you mean?

@saren: Not unless said subjective opinion directly contradicts fact.

@jaken7: I want to like them, But marvel says that a waste of time

@awesomeperson: Johnny died in 2006, Sue died in 2008, I didn't know that until now

BB

FF needs a superstar creative team the last great one they had was waid an wieringo

The fact that none of you have read Hickman's run means your opinions don't mean a thing

@darling_luna: I do like it when Whiny Rock Guy beats up on Douchey Fish Guy (Namor) though.

@jonny_anonymous: The Fact that you assume I didn't means you options don't mean a thing.

I said hardly, I knew of the Hickman run, read a little.

@jonny_anonymous: I'm talking whether or not the FF have been involved in major story arcs such as AVX... I've read Hickmans run... I loved it but did the X-Men and Avengers get involved in the final story lines so your point is invalid...

Also, don't assume things about people you don't know...

Lack of promotion. When's the last time any of them have been more than side characters in a Marvel event? They haven't had a movie since those crappy ones with Jessica Alba.They haven't had any prominent TV shows.

Plus, personally, I find them kinda dull.

They have been just as prominent as any other characters in every Marvel line wide crossover....ever. Otherwise they wouldn't be considered "line wide"

They have a movie currently in production.

They have had two animated series through the past two decades and would probably be more featured if Marvel owned the rights to them. They do show up in Marvels latest animated universe shows. I think Marvel not owning their rights is a major problem with their promotion. Obviously, the paradigm for Marvels money making has shifted to following their films. Which the FF are not apart of.

I feel like anyone who says they are kind of boring has never probably actually read their stuff. Sure, the fact that roster never really changes over the years is understandable but they do all the same things that any other super hero team does. They are no different from any other super hero team.

You people are nuts! Who cares if the characters don't get shanghaied in to Marvels crappy events? That doesn't mean the characters/books mean less, it just means they get to have their own stories instead of being forced to be gimmicky advertising devices which is what pretty much every event is.

1. Yes, but they aren't as prominent in events as other premiere teams. AvX feature heavily the Avengers and X-Men, Infinity featured the Avengers and tied in with Hickman's other Avengers titles. We had Battle of the Atom featuring the X-Men, Age of Ultron featured mostly X-Men and Avengers (though, I believe Sue Storm went on an adventure with Wolverine toward the middle). The FF aren't nearly as up front as the others.

2. Yeah, it's in pre production, the question is why aren't they selling anymore, cause they don't have any movies out RIGHT NOW. Sony has relaunched Spider-Man, Fox is pumping out more X-Men films, Marvel has Avengers. But Fantastic Four only have planned movies, nothing out right now to get people interested.

3. They have had two shows...and the latest one was, what? A decade ago? Meanwhile since then, Avengers have had two shows (one still ongoing), Spider-Man has had two shows (one still ongoing, one critically praised) Hulk even has a show and the X-Men have had Wolverine and the X-Men).

Personally, I've read their previous run before the Marvel NOW and their Marvel NOW series, as well as some older stories..and none really actually interested me, not saying the team as a whole are boring, but to me, their stories don't snag my interest.

In the forward of the TPB's for the Waid/Weiringo run, Waid states the "FF should be doing things no other team has done." I agree, and that's what drew me to them in the first place. I feel they are the most "cosmic" team out there. Galactus and Silver Surfer could not have made their first appearances in any other team book. The only team as cosmic, imo, is the Legion of Super-Heroes, who no longer have a title, and were set 1000 years in the future, so that kind of made them cosmic by default. Marvel has replaced many of the things FF should be doing. I have a bad feeling the GOTG may take up that mantle, and that'd be a shame. If Marvel getting the rights back for the fils is what it takes for them to get 100% behind the comic, then I hope that happens. That shouldn't have to happen though. They don't own the film rights to Spider-Man, but that doesn't stop them from keeping Spider-Man as a main cog in the Marvel Machine.

The only way I see it getting hyped up is if doom and reed have an epic showdown. Ok hear me out. You can't lie, it hasn't been hyped up, it's just adventure after adventure. But this should be huge. They should bring the FF4 back together (if they haven't already) but then have reed kidnap them one by one. Finally it's just reed and franklin. Then reed takes franklin by putting him inside some kind of stasis, and then reed challenges doom into a death battle for his family and friends back. Although I do think reed should die, doom still honors reeds request and releases them. That would be epic! Doom won't actually kill him but imprision his soul and the remaining FF4 get doctor strange to fight doom strange starts to lost to doom, but then franklin saves the day while doom is distracted and knocks doom unconscious. They take reeds soul and instill it back into his body. Story arc ended.

I don't really get it. Maybe they've had less exposure in other media or something? Could the natural limit to the number of characters that can be involved be a factor?

Oh, I'm sorry to nitpick a little, but a bunch of other DC titles got a crazy sales boost in June because of the bombshell variant covers, so it's usually been outselling Catwoman, by about 13,000 copies in May for example.

Ahh..that makes me feel a little better.

Cool. :)

Even with that, it does seem kind of strange how low it is. It seems like it could be the lowest seller of Marvels "always in print" titles, even though it sold better than Iron Man and Captain America in June(they've been running considerably longer). I'd perhaps have to research that properly, maybe with charts.

It's maybe not totally relevant to this thread, but we don't currently have a Fantastic Four reprint series in the U.K., and haven't had for a while. This wouldn't affect the sales figures we see, but it's perhaps a reflection of reduced public interest generally.

Sure, a books own stories are more important then a a big event, to those specific characters. I wasn't really talking big events

I'm sorry that I didn't reinforce that early.

But does little good if no one hears of it. I hear more about 2nd string X-men teams(that I don't read) more then FF

The most I've ever heard of was Doc. D master and the Hickman run and that's it

There stories just suck, I don't see them as outdated or boring. There stories just make them seem that way

Agreed. Always came off as kinda lame to me too. :/

Even their team name and individual names are lame haha.

1. Things like AvX and Battle of the Atom aren't line wide, neither of those featured characters like Spider-Man either. However, crossovers like Heroic Age, Chaos War, Fear Itself all had issues that intertwined with Fan Four....because they were line wide.

The fact that Marvel has been pushing the Avengers more to the forefront is no secret, so them being featured more prominently along with the already popular X-Men is obvious. It doesn't mean the Fantastic Four are diminished in any way though, they are still there.

2. I don't really know what to say to that. I mean, there will be no X-Men films for another 2 years...because it's in production. Does that mean no one cares about the X-Men anymore?

3. As I said, Marvel is more interested in marketing their films through their cartoons. Which is why their current animation universe reflects the films. The Fantastic Fours film rights aren't owned by them....but yet, they still do show up in the shows. They had their own show to promote their film back in 2007/2008

Fair enough...some people think Batman is boring. Some of their stuff from the 70s and 80s is pretty good. A lot of famous villains and concepts got their start in the pages of the Fantastic Four, they are an intrinsic part of the Marvel Universe, my only issue with would be, as I mentioned, their roster is always predominantly the same, which can stagnate.

I think you're mixing up my meaning on some of these.

1. Whether it's a crossover event or a secluded event, the X-Men and Avengers characters are in the forefront of them, the Fantastic Four are not, I would love to see an event that solely focuses on one or all of the Fantastic Four, but it's not happening, because of that, they are becoming less popular than other characters who are more in the forefront of events like Wolverine, Cap, the X-Men, etc.

2. The Fantastic Four have only had two films, both were bad, thus, not memorable, and years ago. The X-Men have been steady putting out movies since the early 2000s, as has Spider-Man and the Marvel Studio films. WHEN the new Fantastic Four film comes out, if it's good, then yes, maybe it will make them more popular, but since they haven't had any movies recently, there's no way for non comic book fans to be introduced to them.

3. Not debating WHY they don't have their own shows, but the simple fact that they DON'T have their own show right now, just like they're not capturing movie goers with their lack of film, they are also not catching tv viewers with their lack of a show.

Now, i'm not saying not having movies or tv shows or crossover events make them BAD CHARACTERS, I'm saying, not having those things, regardless of circumstance (Marvel wanting to promote other heroes instead) is the reasons why the Fantastic Four aren't selling (the question of the thread). The casual comic fan isn't buying their comics due to lack of curiosity, the casual movie goers and tv viewers aren't buying their comics due to lack of publicity.

This

SMH, you people hating on the FF clearly have not been reading the right material

I think it's kind of hard to take a somewhat stern leader of a group who can become Stretch Armstrong seriously.

They just not very interesting in this time and age imo.

Also the lame costumes. It's time for an update.

I. THe FF do not get promoted as mucH as Spider-Man, Avengers, or tHe X-Men. Marvel wants tHe Avengers or at least tHe X-Men to be Marvel's Justice League. THerefore, tHose two teams get more attention tHan FF.

II. Batsman or batsman related cHaracters always get love nomatter How poor tHeir material is. THe Batmites are rabid fans like tHat.

III For some reason FF villains Have been used in otHer Marvel cHaracter's stories.

June'sVeryOwn

I would agree with their marketing in the comics, and thats on Marvel.

I was more or less arguing the facts that you made it sound like all these attempts at putting the Fantastic Four in other media (cartoons and films) happened eons ago...which they didn't. The Fantastic Four had their last film happened roughly 7 years ago and they have another one on the way. They are always present and usually powerful in every video game thats put out, they appear in the current Marvel animation shows, they are featured in their toys......they are everywhere.

Do you mean an update to the recent update?

Anyway, I looked into the sales figures, and there is quite a clear drop in sales, compared to previous runs:

Also, they were more realistic as sales rivals to the X-Men recently, but that's changed noticeably since Marvel Now!

@v_scarlotte_rose: Still not good nuff! It's practically a palette swap .

FF is lame af imo.

This makes me sad, because some of the first comic books I ever bought were Fantastic Four comics, and they have a special place in my heart :(