#1 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, I am not asking whether or not they can, because for the most part, I know they can't. Otherwise, we'd have more and more new characters. I think I answered the question a few days ago, but I want to know from you guys. It'd be nice to wake up in the morning to a bunch of comments.

#2 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

It'd be nice to wake up in the morning to a bunch of comments.

It's because this is not the era of Stan Time. The only character's that become revolutionary are originals and Stan pretty much covered all original characters with original powers. Character's like Sentry was created by someone else, but he wasn't as popular or useful some consider him a rip off of Superman. Not to mention Stan Time created mutants so that other writers can introduce new characters without finding an excuse about how they've gotten the power. Unfortunately, with a whole race that is always expanding, super powers tend to stretch short of originality. You have 100s of characters able to manipulate fire and only a few ideas of what they can do with them. Furthermore, the original characters progress as time does and when real-world science expands, so does those original characters and their power. (Magneto for example: from manipulating metals to manipulating the entire electromagnetic spectrum). This makes it kind of hard for newer characters to be interesting or being foreshadowed by an original that precedes that same power. So writers try to make up for this by writing focusing stories that relate to the readers for these new characters, but the characters still pretty much remain in the back ground as some kind of support character in aid for the mainstream ones and grow from there. (Like how Jubilee started) (And Armor).... In fact, Armor is just a foreshadow of Jubilee but with different origins and power. So, it all really depends, but it's hard to tell for certain. Stan Lee created characters from 39' and 62' that despite that character should be 120 to 80 years old now (Magneto) is still at this day in his 40's... Cyclops should be 50 years old in comics today, but is still 20-30-ish.... So you see, per every 10 years, characters' age are brought back 10 years. So as characters don't age at all, the story arcs are still moving forward.... Pretty weird huh?

So no, new character's really can't survive in the comic industry like it used too. They would do better if new characters were brought up from scratch with a video game 1st and then cameo for comics later.

#3 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

The DCU needs to bring back White Canary.

#4 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

Invincible, Brit and plenty of other Image characters survived thanks to a mix of old style powers and interesting personalities and/or environments. I guess it's still doable, but what is probably way more difficult is to create something entirely original.

#5 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5859 posts) - - Show Bio

@DocFatalis said:

Invincible, Brit and plenty of other Image characters survived thanks to a mix of old style powers and interesting personalities and/or environments. I guess it's still doable, but what is probably way more difficult is to create something entirely original.

This. I was about to bring up Invincible among others. Its difficult to intro a new hero in The Big Two and have them flourish due to the glut of characters and the companies pushing the popular ones.

#6 Posted by Dernman (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know I think there are some character that could survive.

#7 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how they can't survive. They can't rise to prominence easily, but that's a different matter now.

Also, Sentry didn't fail because he was new, he failed because he was horrible.

#8 Posted by Strafe Prower (11893 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

I don't see how they can't survive. They can't rise to prominence easily, but that's a different matter now.

Also, Sentry didn't fail because he was new, he failed because he was horrible.

Truth

#9 Posted by cyberninja (10383 posts) - - Show Bio

It's quite difficult but not impossible to come up with an original character that comic book fans will begin to like because the number one reason why MOST new comic book characters are not well received by comic book fans is because the fans believe that everything has been done before, and it's hard for them to come across an "original" character with good story.  

#10 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you for all your responses. I was not quite expecting to see some of these when I awoke. Let's see what we have.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: It is a shame, too. I don't think the most important thing about comic characters are their powers, but that gets in the way of making them interesting too. You can give people the same powers, but make their personalities the same. You can give another hero fire powers, and make them sort of like the reluctant hero, instead of a hothead, or give another character a freakish look due to a mutation, but make them not only accept it, but love it as well (talking about Beast my second favorite X-Man after Storm). The fundamental thing that we are supposed to get out of comics is not powers (to me, I may be crazy, though). The main thing comics are supposed to do is tell people about people. Powers are supposed to be secondary. That is why characters without powers are often more compelling than those with ridiculous powers. However, I think the X-Men was the best thing that has ever happened to comics. It is the franchise that you can do the most, and best stories with because it most reflects the problems of the real world (have you ever read God Loves, Man Kills?), but at present, that is not happening.

@DocFatalis said:

Invincible, Brit and plenty of other Image characters survived thanks to a mix of old style powers and interesting personalities and/or environments. I guess it's still doable, but what is probably way more difficult is to create something entirely original.

QFT. It is very difficult, but in my opinion not impossible. I am by no means complaining about unoriginality in this thread, but I do hate how the industry seems to hinge on certain characters. It has honestly been at least five decades since most of our most cherished characters have come out, and we still depend on them in order to read comics (yes, a main problem with comics nowadays is that people depend on characters. That is why some titles like AVX sell like hotcakes, and other, arguably more deserving titles are forgotten). This ever-present notion that characters are more important than story is the reason the industry is the way it is today. That is why Warner Brothers said that they'll most likely already reboot the Batman and Green Lantern franchises. That is why we are getting a new Superman movie next year.

I believe there are still entirely new and original stories that can be told. Look at Batwing, a character I keep praising. I praise him for a reason. Winick masterfully wrote the first arc, and it was like nothing I read in comics, especially in terms of his origin, which I won't spoil. But DC's pandering to Batman prevented the story from being a true masterpiece. We didn't need to see Bruce, Babs, Dick, or Damien at all, and we definitely did not need to conclude the story in Gotham city. They only did so to tie into the Night of the Owls cross-over. Worst thing is, ever since the first arc, and the tie-in were over, DC's editorial decided that Batwing was not going to be successful in it's own niche, and that he needs to team up with everybody.

I can go on and on about this topic, and I will. But I have to go now.

#11 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (36229 posts) - - Show Bio

Because money speaks louder than creativity 

#12 Posted by BatWatch (3273 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian Wayne, Miles Morales, Nico Minoru.

I'm sure I could think of more if given some time. These were just the first three that popped into my head. I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

#13 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: You are DAMN right! Smack anyone who tells you otherwise. You have 25's permission.

@PsychoKnights: I am talking about the fact that you can't really create a new character (and this mostly applies to the big two), and spontaneously give him his own series. I know you are going to say Talon, but in my opinion, that series is coming out to further cash in on the Batman franchise. The story is original as hell (and yes that was sarcasm). Guy leaves evil organization for god knows what reason, and they chase him. Every time a new wave comes along, the Batman corner of the DCU gets a new title. I better not see a Robins title, and I sure as heck hope that Batman inc ends when Morrison finishes his run.

But I'm ranting. Miles Morales is a new character himself yes, and there are some stories that can come from him, given his different family structure. And there has. But he is still stuck in the shadow of the Peter Parker Spider-Man, because the moral undertones of the series remained the same, and the consequences of Miles' actions would've been the same had that been Peter. They took a different spin on a classic character, and I support that, but you can't really say for a fact that he is a new character.

I'm thinking about things now, and it looks like comics are in sort of like a dark-ages. Nothing like the 90's though lol. I still see them being on the up and up, given the success of these recent movies, but I don't see anything worthwhile happening anytime soon.

#14 Posted by BatWatch (3273 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: You are DAMN right! Smack anyone who tells you otherwise. You have 25's permission.

@PsychoKnights: I am talking about the fact that you can't really create a new character (and this mostly applies to the big two), and spontaneously give him his own series. I know you are going to say Talon, but in my opinion, that series is coming out to further cash in on the Batman franchise. The story is original as hell (and yes that was sarcasm). Guy leaves evil organization for god knows what reason, and they chase him. Every time a new wave comes along, the Batman corner of the DCU gets a new title. I better not see a Robins title, and I sure as heck hope that Batman inc ends when Morrison finishes his run.

But I'm ranting. Miles Morales is a new character himself yes, and there are some stories that can come from him, given his different family structure. And there has. But he is still stuck in the shadow of the Peter Parker Spider-Man, because the moral undertones of the series remained the same, and the consequences of Miles' actions would've been the same had that been Peter. They took a different spin on a classic character, and I support that, but you can't really say for a fact that he is a new character.

I'm thinking about things now, and it looks like comics are in sort of like a dark-ages. Nothing like the 90's though lol. I still see them being on the up and up, given the success of these recent movies, but I don't see anything worthwhile happening anytime soon.

So, you are seeing the nineties as a dark period if I am reading your implication correctly. Why? I like many of the stories of the nineties. In fact, it is probably my most read period...though that is mainly because I am a big Tim Drake fan, and those were his best years (thank you Chuck Dixon). Also, nineties comics are cheap and plentiful.

I see what you are saying, but I guess I don't see it as a big problem. I am a DC fan who has not strayed much prior to COIE, but I can say that post-COIE, it has always been that way. The comic companies would rather test the waters with a character in conjunction with a more major player's ongoing than go straight into giving him his own series. It does seem like the gestation period for testing the waters has become longer over time, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Now that I am considering this, I'm wondering what the financial considerations are when creating a new series. It seems like Marvel and DC want to keep away from jumping into something new, but I wonder what the big financial considerations are. It seems like if the series did not work out, you could just transfer the artists and writers to another project and not lose money, but perhaps the contract are written so that this is not feasible. I can see how promotion costs might be an issue. Taking out ads for a new ongoing that doesn't work out might be considerably expensive. Food for thought.

I would love to see Drake get his own series if he could get a good writer. I hate what Lodbell has done with the Titans. I also like the basic concept of Batman Incorporate, but I can definitely hear you on the over saturation of Batman which I assume is your primary complaint.

I think we are still getting good new characters.

#15 Posted by TheAntiReVamp (389 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

Because money speaks louder than creativity

That's painfully true...in YOUR universe >:)

#16 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

People won't give them a chance and only spin-off characters fair well than a brand new title.

#17 Posted by InfamousFish (353 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Twentyfive said:

It'd be nice to wake up in the morning to a bunch of comments.

It's because this is not the era of Stan Time. The only character's that become revolutionary are originals and Stan pretty much covered all original characters with original powers. Character's like Sentry was created by someone else, but he wasn't as popular or useful some consider him a rip off of Superman. Not to mention Stan Time created mutants so that other writers can introduce new characters without finding an excuse about how they've gotten the power. Unfortunately, with a whole race that is always expanding, super powers tend to stretch short of originality. You have 100s of characters able to manipulate fire and only a few ideas of what they can do with them. Furthermore, the original characters progress as time does and when real-world science expands, so does those original characters and their power. (Magneto for example: from manipulating metals to manipulating the entire electromagnetic spectrum). This makes it kind of hard for newer characters to be interesting or being foreshadowed by an original that precedes that same power. So writers try to make up for this by writing focusing stories that relate to the readers for these new characters, but the characters still pretty much remain in the back ground as some kind of support character in aid for the mainstream ones and grow from there. (Like how Jubilee started) (And Armor).... In fact, Armor is just a foreshadow of Jubilee but with different origins and power. So, it all really depends, but it's hard to tell for certain. Stan Lee created characters from 39' and 62' that despite that character should be 120 to 80 years old now (Magneto) is still at this day in his 40's... Cyclops should be 50 years old in comics today, but is still 20-30-ish.... So you see, per every 10 years, characters' age are brought back 10 years. So as characters don't age at all, the story arcs are still moving forward.... Pretty weird huh?

So no, new character's really can't survive in the comic industry like it used too. They would do better if new characters were brought up from scratch with a video game 1st and then cameo for comics later.