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#1 Posted by Z3RO180 (6302 posts) - - Show Bio

Ever since I started on comicvine every now and again a viner brings up the 90s. So what was so bad about comics in the 90s ?

#2 Posted by BumpyBoo (7664 posts) - - Show Bio

No idea, I didn't know people hated 90's comics...? I thought they were great! Depends what you read, I suppose :)

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#3 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

The writing wasn't great overall. Gimmicks like chromium covers, variants, etc were at an all-time high.

If you went back and checked out 90s comics you'd find some good and some bad just like any era.

#4 Edited by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

The 1990s had great comics

but it also had problems

1 the big dog Marvel was in a financial mess, almost bankrupt

2Tony Stark attacked people in some time travel immortus thing and Wasp turned into a giant bug

3They killed off Superman only to replace him with Kryptons long lost son, a Cyborg, a John Henry metal Superman, a clone Superboy and a gazillion other Supermans

4Ironman became a boy, Wolverine became a mindless dog with boney claws

5They broke Batman and replaced him with a French psycho Punisher dude

6Invisible Woman was even more slutty than usual, Xmen was becoming a soap about who slept with who

7Dr Fate was a grave robber who dug up an ankh, it exploded, and turned him into a magic goth pirate with disco santa costume

8Spider-Man was a clone all along, never existed, none of his stories real

9Heroes Reborn, Liefeld art, JimLee writer gimmicks. Cap has hugetits Thor jobbers out like Worf

10Electric zappy red and blue Superman

11Some Image and Topcow and other independents started to put art before writing

12proliferation of bad Japan anime like Sailor Moon, Pokemon etc

13This 90s lead to the modern environment

and probably lead to writers like Austen, Joe Quesada and Bendis creating a buddy-buddy nepotist writing management and selling sub-standard stories

#5 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: @BumpyBoo:

I actually stopped reading comics in the late 80s and didn't start again until about four or five years ago...

Regarding the 90s... Well, there was a TREMENDOUS amount of bad art... Many of the female characters were drawn with waists the same diameter as their arms.

Seriously, why doesn't the top half of this woman just fall over?

Oh, and no feet... They all tippied around on their toes like ballerinas... I THINK this is feral? Notice her tail is coming out of the middle of her right butt cheek? Seriously?

The new mutants was one of the first series I stopped reading. I don't have any scans at the moment, but the art became SO bad that I honestly could not recognize which character was which, even though I'd been reading their series since the beginning. I could no longer tell if it was Karma or Mirage or Illyana or Magma that was in the panel talking... So, I gave up on it... Why would I pay for a comic book that I had to work at deciphering?

Around that time there were three Spider-Man series... I think it was Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-man that went the same way that the New Mutants series did. The art became so bad I couldn't tell what was what... So I dropped it...

And THEN the whole "I'm Jean Grey and I'm not really dead" thing started happening... You know, when Jean Grey died (THE FIRST TIME) it hit us all right where we lived.. It was incredibly sad... The story had impact... but then Marvel crammed that whole, "Oh that wasn't really Jean, that was a cosmic entity who cloned Jean's body and left the "real" Jean in a cocoon in the ocean to heal" trash... Well, that was irritating, but we forgave them because we all loved Jean...

AND THEN they started Cyclop's slide into prick-hood (a word I JUST made up...) Do you remember the first volume of X-Factor? I do.. I bought it when it first came out and for almost two years I waited for it to become good.. sigh....How disappointing that was. If you read the first X-Factor, you know that the first team was really made up of the first team of X-Men; Cyclops, Jean Grey, Angel, Beast, and Iceman... What could go wrong... Well:

1: Scott Summers will have to abandon his WIFE AND NEWBORN BABY so he can join X-Factor and eventually get back together with Jean...

2: The X-Factor team will be mislead into actually making the public think Mutants are dangerous, thus adding to the anti-Mutant Hype

3: The whole storyline was like one long sad journey into the destruction of mutant kind...

Well, I could go on and on, but so much of the art was bad...the sterotyping was beyond belief (have you read any early issues of Power Man), and the 90s saw the great rise in the whole, "dying and resurrecting" thing... At least today the art is better...

#6 Posted by Cap10nate (2155 posts) - - Show Bio

Another reason for the disdain for the 90s would be the collectibles bubble. It was the late 80s and into the 90s that everybody started to get into collecting for profit. Everything from old comics to baseball cards were skyrocketing in value. So everybody thought that their comics would one day be worth a fortune and would read them once and then bag/board them. Since everybody has done that then and still does it through today, it basically ensures that there will never be a value for most comics printed from the 90s onward except for extremely significant issues or rare variants.

#7 Posted by Z3RO180 (6302 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm so it was the rise of liefiled

#8 Posted by roboadmiral (538 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't an all together, unequivocally terrible era, but it was marked by a high degree of superficiality. Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns inspired the era, but only in aesthetic, and not content. Things were very grumbly and gritty, but without any real depth or intelligence to back it up. Art was also really big in that era, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if your art moved enough copies they didn't really care about the writing, which led to a lot of guys writing who probably shouldn't have been *cough*Todd McFarlane*cough*.

And the aforementioned gimmicky variant foil covers that were an utter waste of time as they tried to turn every single issue into a collector's item.

#9 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (20567 posts) - - Show Bio

Rob Liefeld. Nuff said.

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#10 Posted by RedLanternRage81 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the 90'S era comics got a little corny, Marvel especially had to much going on, quality over quanity. But i love comics i will read them and enjoy them from any era, collecting to just make a profit is bs, go collect baseball cards...lol. I hope to pass my collection on to my sons, any body thats ever got rid of their collection knows it a huge empty feeling, sucks bad.

#11 Edited by Sinfulplayerx (193 posts) - - Show Bio

Once Marvel discovered that fans would pay double for Gimmick covers, which innocently only started off as just #1's and issue #500's. They instantly over saturated the Market with every issue becoming a Gimmick Cover. I agree with pretty much Everything else that "Charlie_Shade" said.

#12 Posted by Manwhohaseverything (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

The 90's was an all time high for gimmicks. Now, I don't mind a gimmick now and then, and some of the gimmicks were well done. (IMHO.) but still it was gimmick over-load. "Death of..." and "Replacement of..." high level heroes is pretty cool, but must be done well, and must be rare. I guess a way of putting it is "Imagine if it seemed every hero went through then, what Spider-man is going through now." LIke any other decade, it had it's winners. I also think following the 80's didn't help. The 80's were a great comic decade. Some of the comics that are little read titles now, were actually brilliantly done, hot commodities in the 80's (Legion of Super-Heroes, Power Pack.) It was also the decade for Moore's Swamp Thing and Watchmen. Miller's Dark Knight Returns, and earlier in the decade, his Daredevil run.It was the Claremont/Byrne X-Men, it was Byrne's new take on Superman. Simonson's Thor. Wolfman and Perez on Teen Titans. No way the 90's was going to follow that!

#13 Edited by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

@Timandm so it was the rise of liefiled

That was a HUGE part of the problem I can't stand anything he drew back then...

@Dragonborn_CT said:

Rob Liefeld. Nuff said.

I just wanted to make sure every one saw this comment again... It speaks volumes... Oh, and speaking of Liefeld and the 90s....

Why does the guy standing above Dead pool have a third arm coming out of his crotch? and...um... Why does Deadpool have SIX FREAKING FINGERS ON HIS RIGHT HAND?!?!

So, in the 90s, comics came out with stuff like this... and people were expected to PAY FOR IT? They couldn't be bothered to draw a hand with the appropriate number of fingers? but they COULD draw an arm coming out of a guys... um... crotch? rectum? Either way, it just doesn't look right... And why can't this guy afford a whole jacket?

OH!!! Here's one that really sums up the 90s in comics! (drumroll please)

.

#14 Posted by stumpy49er (609 posts) - - Show Bio

I love comics from the 90's. Preacher. Nuff said.

#15 Edited by ZEELLO (223 posts) - - Show Bio

the 90s was when I picked up comics as a kid, primarily Spawn. Seeing how the general opinion for 90s comics are low (which I never knew until joining giant bomb) I had to wonder if maybe the 90s is the reason I ignored comics for over a decade since then. Or then again maybe not. Amalgam was stupid though.

#16 Posted by Joygirl (18483 posts) - - Show Bio

Those damn shoulderpads.

#17 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl said:
Those damn shoulderpads.
And the pouches. 
So many pouches.
#18 Posted by cattlebattle (12579 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:
@Joygirl said:
Those damn shoulderpads.
And the pouches. 
So many pouches.
and big guns and mullets.......ah the mullets
#19 Posted by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

At least the 90's gave us Vertigo Comics........

#20 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@Decoy Elite said:
@Joygirl said:
Those damn shoulderpads.
And the pouches.
So many pouches.
and big guns and mullets.......ah the mullets

Well...

1: if you're not going to wear pants or a shirt with pockets, then you're going to need lots of pouches! Where else will you keep the gel you use to keep your mullet primped to stand up like a troll doll?

2: Not just big guns. BIG guns... BIG ASSED GUINS! Guns bigger than human beings! and make sure those guns have more than one hole in the front of the barrel... I guess that's in case the bullet jams up in the first hole.

#21 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
  • I don't think comparing 90's art to modern art is fair. Back then they didn't use computers to draw images. computers made a big differance in terms of the quality of the matrial being printed. And using Leifield is unfair, he was the exception not the rule. Even back then I didn't like his art work, but there were plenty of other artists that were great.
  • For the record I liked Azreal's Batman. He wasn't a good replacement for Batman, but he was still an interesting character unto himself. I think they should bring him back and make him part of Batman Inc.
  • They made a version of Superboy that made sense. Making a cloned version of Superman embodied in the character Superboy was brilliant. Prior Superboy was just Superman when he was young, which made no sense. And to me Steel used to be a decent character.
  • Robin finally becme a cool character in the 90's too in the form of Tim Drake. Prior he was so nausiating that fans voted to kill him.
  • And the 90's gave us a comic book revolution with new companies like Image, Milestone, Malibu, Dark Horse, and Valiant. All had built awesome continuity and had a variety of great characters. Of course Marvel and DC either bought off or crushed the competition, but atleast the attempt taught Marvel and DC to respect writers' creativity.
#22 Posted by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the king of the 90's gimmick comic book covers! Non other than Rob Liefeld's BLOODSTRIKE; Rub The Blood! Yes with the cutting edge technology of fake blood and a zip lock bag this book reached new levels of being EXTREME!!!

Hey A-hole rub the blood! 
#23 Posted by BumpyBoo (7664 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm: Aha. As I said it depends what you read - Vertigo is about as close as I get to the big two, and it was an AWESOME decade for Vertigo fans :D Plus Spawn, The Maxx...was a great time to like weird comics :D Even Marvel had the short lived Razorline imprint.

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#24 Posted by Teerack (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

It might be because i was bore in 1990 but i always thought 85-95ish was the coolest time in a lot of comics.

#25 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: A few people have mentioned Rob Liefeld, so here's a list of 40 of his worst drawings.

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

And they had to make a second list

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/6/14/3084348/the-second-40-worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

#26 Posted by Z3RO180 (6302 posts) - - Show Bio

I grew up in the 90s as a kid and only read a hand full of comics but I thought they were awesome and still do. The death of superman was awesome haven't read the stuff after and leading to his return.

#27 Posted by EMH_Bruce (724 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand how anyone couldn't like Kon o.o

This is the nineties (Superboy V3 #012)

I have to admit, I didn't read DC or Marvel in the 90's, I read the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics (from the Cartoon from 1987) and I loved them.

#28 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

Ever since I started on comicvine every now and again a viner brings up the 90s. So what was so bad about comics in the 90s ?

They bring up the 90's because the 90's were better than today's comics.

#29 Posted by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

Back in the 90's they passed a law stating that all female comic book characters must wear thongs at all times. Nothing says female empowerment like bare butt cheeks.......

Wonder Woman
#30 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

The peak of comics was probably during the early 90s and guys titles by someone like Liefeld, who the haters love to bash, were consistently one of the best sellers.

But the reason you hear a lot of negativity is because the haters always have a louder voice. They love to whine (vine) & complain more than the millions of people who actually bought the comics as a kid and are no longer buying comics now. Marvel & DC would kill to have comics that sold as well as Bloodstrike did in the 90s.

#31 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

Storywise I like the 70's best. I feel like the early 90's were the exact opposite of those days.

#32 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Magethor said:

@Z3RO180 said:

Ever since I started on comicvine every now and again a viner brings up the 90s. So what was so bad about comics in the 90s ?

They bring up the 90's because the 90's were better than today's comics.

Depends on the comic. I agree that the 90's weren't all trash but it had some real stinkers. 
The same could be said for any year of comics though. 
It's just that the horrible 90's comics are easily to find.
#33 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade said:

12proliferation of bad Japan anime like Sailor Moon, Pokemon etc

what does this have to do with comics in the US and why call them bad Japan animé?

OP:

the 90s were like the dark ages man! it's the apocalypse, end of the world! TheAgeThatCan'BeNamed

#34 Edited by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

There was nothing more depraved, and as loathsome in the 90's than the Marvel Swimsuits Specials. What kind of diabolical warped mind would think of such a horror. This one line of comic books alone would raise the concept of being creepy to a whole new level all together. Let God have mercy on who ever thought up the idea of The Marvel Swimsuit Special......




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 BEHOLD THE POWER OF NAMOR'S BANANA HAMMOCK!!! I'm betting you are missing Namor's green speedos right about now...... 
Nice rat tail namor 
 Why isn't Greg Rucka writing this Punisher? I've never seen the Punisher look more menacing. Don't ask me where he keeps all of his guns......
#35 Posted by jonEsherfey (443 posts) - - Show Bio

It was mostly just super violent amd stuff like thst. Just trying to sound badass the whole time and had many stereotypes

#36 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

There was nothing more depraved, and as loathsome in the 90's than the Marvel Swimsuits Specials. What kind of diabolical warped mind would think of such a horror. This one line of comic books alone would raise the concept of being creepy to a whole new level all together. Let God have mercy on who ever thought up the idea of The Marvel Swimsuit Special......

















BEHOLD THE POWER OF NAMOR'S BANANA HAMMOCK!!! I'm betting you are missing Namor's green speedos right about now......
Nice rat tail namor
Why isn't Greg Rucka writing this Punisher? I've never seen the Punisher look more menacing. Don't ask me where he keeps all of his guns......

Namor's is hilarious. I can just imagine the guys at Marvel thinking "how do we give a swim suit to a character who wears a swim suit....."

No idea what the hell brought on the Skull jock strap, but I would not be going around bare ass while surrounded by little horny demons.....

#37 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5145 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of the 90s was bullsh*t gimmicks. But I do miss the Indy stuff and the art.

#38 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

It was extreme

#39 Posted by tupiaz (2170 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

There was nothing more depraved, and as loathsome in the 90's than the Marvel Swimsuits Specials. What kind of diabolical warped mind would think of such a horror. This one line of comic books alone would raise the concept of being creepy to a whole new level all together. Let God have mercy on who ever thought up the idea of The Marvel Swimsuit Special......

















BEHOLD THE POWER OF NAMOR'S BANANA HAMMOCK!!! I'm betting you are missing Namor's green speedos right about now......
Nice rat tail namor
Why isn't Greg Rucka writing this Punisher? I've never seen the Punisher look more menacing. Don't ask me where he keeps all of his guns......

Yeah because people haven't drawn males and females naked and half naked before what a horror. I would rather have some swimsuit specials where some could get they freak on in stead of it being in the comics all the time. Also the hatred for Rob is way to hard yah the guy have some flaws and isn't one of mt favorites. But some of the critic he is getting he is getting for his style (which is a matter of taste) and not his skills. He likes to draw over the top characters and it looks weird but that is his style. If you don't like it fair, but some of it is just too much. And oh yeah I will give him credit to dare speak his mind. Maybe not a clever mood, but he stand his ground. Comic book fans like to bash and nothing is more easy to bash than a man that has already been bashed a lot.

#40 Posted by ImmortalT1000 (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess they're old.

#41 Posted by JediXMan (29545 posts) - - Show Bio

I blame Liefeld, honestly. Not even joking.

He is the reason for a lot of really bad costumes and... questionable decisions. Every costume that features giant pockets and gigantic guns is thanks to him, even if he didn't directly create the comics. He directly and indirectly influenced the majority of things that happened in the 90s.

#42 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

I blame Liefeld, honestly. Not even joking.

He is the reason for a lot of really bad costumes and... questionable decisions. Every costume that features giant pockets and gigantic guns is thanks to him, even if he didn't directly create the comics. He directly and indirectly influenced the majority of things that happened in the 90s.

This.

I was afraid to post this because someone else said that Liefeld was only a minor problem... But he really wasn't. He's just... Ugh.

I cringe at the fact that Lobo's first appearance was handled by Rob Liefeld, for the New 52.

#43 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing though, the 90s get a lot of flak for Deaths, Falls, Returns, and Sagas with equal to or greater than (1)Clone, but to fans like me who've only started reading in the past five years, those events are legendary. Especially when retold.

#44 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

I like to try say it in sonnet:

Out of character moments numerous

There were many clones of Wolverine

The misspellings for cool factor were obscene

They shock factor death was lost its fuss

The overly size guns and shoulder pads were gratuitous

Most comics spirit was being mean

Not having it found in grocery stores made them unseen

Not saying everything was bad

There were golden moments to receive

The was a lesson to be learn.

When we look back at some that were a fad

We can see how far has been achieve

However, what the characters been though is a concern.

#45 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

Ever since I started on comicvine every now and again a viner brings up the 90s. So what was so bad about comics in the 90s ?

The Market was flooded in the 90's with a lot of crappy Marvel/DC books this was done to prevent the many smaller companies from gaining a foothold in the Marketplace. Causing Image to brake it's shoe off in Marvel/DC's collective candy ass.

#46 Edited by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio
@tupiaz: Ha Ha Ha.... I don't know why people are thinking that I was making fun of Rob Liefeld's art. I was making fun of the gimmick cover of Bloodstrike #1. but if people want to keep on bringing it up to me, sure why not. There is a difference between "style" and bad anatomy, bad perspective, bad elements of design, bad page layout, and just bad art. Let look at Domino down there.
Bad art 
  
Style
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Yes, I know there was a time when Rob Liefeld was on a few title that sold really really well. Does that make him a great artist? No. Limp Bizkit sold a crap load of CD, but there's no way you can convince me that they're a great band. I know art is subjective, I also know some art is just $%#@........  
Lighten up man.....
#47 Posted by tupiaz (2170 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: Nah I was addressing you. I got your point. It was more the general feeling towards Rob. Besides I would never use the argument of sale is equals being good. As I said not a Rob fan myself and don't have anything with him and is not playing to buy other of his work than the Deadpool Classics TPB's (and he hasn't don all that much old Deadpool besides the first couple of issues as far as I know). It was also a comment on the links @V_Scarlotte_Rose: posted. When that is said Rob did/does have problem with anatomy. However some of the critics is based on his style which is a taste. Ramos for instance get a lot of love (and some hate) but his anatomy is not correct either because of his style. Rob draws girls with an unrealistic stomach and over the top arms/legs but that is his style. He doesn't strike me as an artist that whats to draw realistic which many people seems to forget.

#48 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY AGREE!!!

There are people who would say Liefeld had his own "style." But you cannot call it a "style" if a person draws a certain way because that's the only way the know how to draw... Liefeld didn't "choose" to draw the way he does... He just CAN'T draw any other way. So, it's not a style... It's just drawing badly...

My penmanship, for example, suck's pond-water... I can't really make the claim that I'm writing badly because that's my "style", I'm writing badly because...I can't write any other way...

#49 Posted by kgb725 (5858 posts) - - Show Bio

the onslaught saga and superman just a terrible decade for him

#50 Posted by BlackWind (5494 posts) - - Show Bio

Over the top. XTREME. Rob Liefeld