Daredevil
Who's the Darker Hero? Batman or Dardeveil
Current Runs: Batman
Original Concepts of runs: Daredevil
Main Difference:
Batman let's these things get to him way harder than Daredevil.
@manwhohaseverything: No, actually it's quite the opposite. Marvel was the one always known for being dark because Marvel was the first to market comics towards teens, DCs been playing catchup ever since. You can see this with Batman and Daredevil.
Daredevil is the REASON they made Batman "dark". After Miller wrote Born Again and his other DD stuff, DC was like "well crap" and payed Miller boatloads of money to come over to DC and do the same for the Bat. Year One and TDK were so revolutionary for Batman because they weren't Batman stories, they were Daredevil stories that set the precedent for DC being dark. It's still the same way, Marvel is doing whatever and DC is trying to play catchup.
Check this article out for more info: http://www.businessinsider.com/dc-copies-marvel-2014-6
Batman should take this saw both of his parents get murdered in front of him, have 2 of his Robins get killed, 1 one of them was his son and the other came back to become bad. Also have many villains that mess with his mind
@force_echo said:
@manwhohaseverything: No, actually it's quite the opposite. Marvel was the one always known for being dark because Marvel was the first to market comics towards teens, DCs been playing catchup ever since. You can see this with Batman and Daredevil.
Daredevil is the REASON they made Batman "dark". After Miller wrote Born Again and his other DD stuff, DC was like "well crap" and payed Miller boatloads of money to come over to DC and do the same for the Bat. Year One and TDK were so revolutionary for Batman because they weren't Batman stories, they were Daredevil stories that set the precedent for DC being dark. It's still the same way, Marvel is doing whatever and DC is trying to play catchup.
Check this article out for more info: http://www.businessinsider.com/dc-copies-marvel-2014-6
Agreed. That's why I said in modern comics. I've often said Marvel was darker in the 60-mid 80's. And if someone time travelled from 1980 to now, they'd say DC is doing comics "The Marvel Way" Though Batman was dark:
A: In the very beginning..like 1940.
B: In the 70's as well. Both in the O'Neil runs and Wein and Englehart in Detective. Batman being "dark" pre-dates Miller's Daredevil. Even the stuff before the Elektra Saga. To say Miller made Batman darker is not correct. To call Year One and TDK Daredevil stories also incorrect. It may seem that way because of Miller, but Miller also used some of the precedents already set by DC for Batman in the previous decade. The article is simply wrong.
@manwhohaseverything: I wouldn't say 70s Batman was dark as much as just anti-60s Batman. Again, because they were playing catchup to Marvels more pulpy, monster, romance, horror elements. Still though, in the 70s you had Robin and Batgirl fighting the devil and Benedict Arnold. Marriage Impossible was one of those campy horror arcs that Mad TV made fun of, etc. 70s Batman focused on extravagant villains and monsters and stuff, stuff Marvel had already been doing for years.
Daredevil had none of that. The early runs barely had anything that resembled a "super-villain". It was just hard crime noir, the tone Frank Miller brought to Daredevil. I think it's very false to say that Miller was inspired by the decade before when he created Year One and DKR, could you picture a 70s villain like Man Bat or Ras Al Ghul in either of those stories? I sure can't. Year One had crooked cops and a dominatrix Catwoman, not really 70s at all.
@manwhohaseverything said:
A lot depends on how you define "dark", and most of the folks in this thread saying DD are saying so based on what's happened to him. But the question isn't Who has had more dark stuff happen to them." It's "Who is darker." That's a personality trait. Batman is more obsessed with vengance. Batman is angrier (Whether he should be or not, he is.) Batman is more difficult to get along with. Batman is more brooding. Batman's only real friend is his butler. In every way Batman is darker. Folks talking about how DD has had a more difficult life: That may be true, but it's also totally irrelevant to the question.
@force_echo said:
@manwhohaseverything: I wouldn't say 70s Batman was dark as much as just anti-60s Batman. Again, because they were playing catchup to Marvels more pulpy, monster, romance, horror elements. Still though, in the 70s you had Robin and Batgirl fighting the devil and Benedict Arnold. Marriage Impossible was one of those campy horror arcs that Mad TV made fun of, etc. 70s Batman focused on extravagant villains and monsters and stuff, stuff Marvel had already been doing for years.
Daredevil had none of that. The early runs barely had anything that resembled a "super-villain". It was just hard crime noir, the tone Frank Miller brought to Daredevil. I think it's very false to say that Miller was inspired by the decade before when he created Year One and DKR, could you picture a 70s villain like Man Bat or Ras Al Ghul in either of those stories? I sure can't. Year One had crooked cops and a dominatrix Catwoman, not really 70s at all.
The Engelhart/Wein/Rogers/Simonson run had plenty of "corrupt officials" Rupert Thorne was pretty Kingpin-esque in those stories. (Lower level, but still..) I'll give you dominatrix Catwoman as a unique Miller touch, but the tone for what kind of character Batman was/is had already been set. Miller did expand on it, he did not create it. Have you ever read the Englehart/Rogers run? Like I said, Miller did expand it, and take it to a new level, and yes, much of it had the same feel he gave to Daredevil. Even the Super-villains in Englhart's run did not really resemble super-villains. Any more than Bullseye was in Daredevil. I get where you're coming from, but I simply can't agree. To me, 70's Batman was dark. In some ways..darker than he is now. (Though not over-all). The Englehart stuff pre-dates Miller's Daredevil by a few years, and I think Miller kept certain aspects of that in his take. Engleharts run (granted, it was short.) was pretty much the same Batman you see in a lot of BTAS. I don't know what to tell you except I had already been reading Batman for 10 years by the time Miller got his hands on him, and very little he did made me say "Wow, this is new for Batman" Heck, even Gerry Conway , when he introduced Killer Croc and Jason Todd had a pretty dark Batman vision. I think to say Miller was inspired by some of the portrayals of 70s Batman is correct. At the least, he respected when Englehart and O'Neil had done before. I won't deny DC was playing catch-up to Marvel in the early 1980's, but by 1984 (At least story-wise,if not sales wise) they had caught-up. (IMHO.)
@tupiaz said:
@testament said:
I didn't understand what you meant in the last part there.. "My point was that Bruce for the most parts messes up his own life because he wants/needs to be Batman." Batman is who he is. Bruce died a long time ago, about the time his parents died and the darkness began. Bruce Wayne is just a superficial shell for the public eye and that's not who he calls himself. He knows he's Batman. He doesn't have to prove it to anyone
Well, yes and no. Yes Batman is foremost Batman (that is what I mean with be Batman). However he had meant plenty of women that he could not have a relationship because he couldn't tell them he was Batman. That is a stereotype Batman relationship. The pain this cause is therefore self done. Since Batman is first and foremost Batman the villains also fights Batman not Bruce. That is Batman could if he wanted and got some psychological help stop being Batman his problem would more or less disappear. Matt is however both haunted as Matt both for being Daredevil both also for being a lawyer.
Ok that makes more sense. I agree with you
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
@night4345 said:
@granitesoldier: Well he did become the leader of the Hand which is the equivalent of Batman taking over the League of Assassins. Matt's attitude depends on which era you're talking about but for most of his history he's been a pretty grim person.
Right on. Didn't know that. Like I said my knowledge is fairly limited haha.
@omnicrono said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
A lot depends on how you define "dark", and most of the folks in this thread saying DD are saying so based on what's happened to him. But the question isn't Who has had more dark stuff happen to them." It's "Who is darker." That's a personality trait. Batman is more obsessed with vengance. Batman is angrier (Whether he should be or not, he is.) Batman is more difficult to get along with. Batman is more brooding. Batman's only real friend is his butler. In every way Batman is darker. Folks talking about how DD has had a more difficult life: That may be true, but it's also totally irrelevant to the question.
Daredevil killed bullseye in pure revenge. That is darker and more revengeful than any Batman story I have read. Yea Bruce is more obsessed being Batman but that is only because when he is Bruce he doesn't do anything against crime or justice. Matt when he is not Daredevil he fight justice by being a lawyer. Batman is not about revenge and punishment when he is written that way he is written wrong. Batman is also a person that actually understands the criminals that are forced to being criminals.
@manwhohaseverything said:
@force_echo said:
@manwhohaseverything: I wouldn't say 70s Batman was dark as much as just anti-60s Batman. Again, because they were playing catchup to Marvels more pulpy, monster, romance, horror elements. Still though, in the 70s you had Robin and Batgirl fighting the devil and Benedict Arnold. Marriage Impossible was one of those campy horror arcs that Mad TV made fun of, etc. 70s Batman focused on extravagant villains and monsters and stuff, stuff Marvel had already been doing for years.
Daredevil had none of that. The early runs barely had anything that resembled a "super-villain". It was just hard crime noir, the tone Frank Miller brought to Daredevil. I think it's very false to say that Miller was inspired by the decade before when he created Year One and DKR, could you picture a 70s villain like Man Bat or Ras Al Ghul in either of those stories? I sure can't. Year One had crooked cops and a dominatrix Catwoman, not really 70s at all.
The Engelhart/Wein/Rogers/Simonson run had plenty of "corrupt officials" Rupert Thorne was pretty Kingpin-esque in those stories. (Lower level, but still..) I'll give you dominatrix Catwoman as a unique Miller touch, but the tone for what kind of character Batman was/is had already been set. Miller did expand on it, he did not create it. Have you ever read the Englehart/Rogers run? Like I said, Miller did expand it, and take it to a new level, and yes, much of it had the same feel he gave to Daredevil. Even the Super-villains in Englhart's run did not really resemble super-villains. Any more than Bullseye was in Daredevil. I get where you're coming from, but I simply can't agree. To me, 70's Batman was dark. In some ways..darker than he is now. (Though not over-all). The Englehart stuff pre-dates Miller's Daredevil by a few years, and I think Miller kept certain aspects of that in his take. Engleharts run (granted, it was short.) was pretty much the same Batman you see in a lot of BTAS. I don't know what to tell you except I had already been reading Batman for 10 years by the time Miller got his hands on him, and very little he did made me say "Wow, this is new for Batman" Heck, even Gerry Conway , when he introduced Killer Croc and Jason Todd had a pretty dark Batman vision. I think to say Miller was inspired by some of the portrayals of 70s Batman is correct. At the least, he respected when Englehart and O'Neil had done before. I won't deny DC was playing catch-up to Marvel in the early 1980's, but by 1984 (At least story-wise,if not sales wise) they had caught-up. (IMHO.)
I concede that you were actually there-- I'm only 18, the only thing I know about the progression of 70s Batman is the collected volumes that I collect as a Bats fan-- and as thus probably have a more personal opinion, and I respect your opinion coming from that viewpoint. I never implied that Bats was a ripoff of DD either, indeed large periods of DD's published history I feel actually suffer from trying too hard to create a rogue gallery like Batman's with little success.
I have read Engelhart's run, and I agree that it had dark elements (again, largely because Engelhart was one of the many Marvel writers DC hired to work on its superheroes), but it also had Joker trying to get a federal trademark on a fish with the joker grin, and Batman fighting Deadshot on giant typewriters.
@force_echo said:
I never implied that Bats was a ripoff of DD either, indeed large periods of DD's published history I feel actually suffer from trying too hard to create a rogue gallery like Batman's with little success.
Would you like to elaborate on that and give some examples?
Batman
He lives in a darker city, and is generally acting more serious and controlled then DD, he's less likely to say a joke for example, and he's a master in criminology and know many criminals minds...
They are both dark characters but Batman is darker
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
For Daredevil, Bendis and Brubaker.
For Bats, Morrison and Snyder.
And yea that is an interesting question. I guess Matt just deals with his problems better than Bruce does. Although Matt has been pushed over the deep end many times and still comes back. Remember though, this isn't about who has the darker personality, it's bout who has the most internal darkness that resides inside of them. Who is constantly fighting their own demons inside of them.
@cdiddyman911 said:
Current Runs: Batman
Original Concepts of runs: Daredevil
This,basically. Well,I would only say original after Miller came. Before that,Daredevil was very campy.
Don't forget that the dark gritty Daredevil we know today is more or less Frank Miller's, and it's no secret who Miller's favorite hero is if you know what I'm saying?
I think DD is the prototype for Miller's (very) Dark Knight, basically the kinda theme Miller wanted for Batman. Now as for who is actually darker, I don't know. Maybe DD since he seems to be kinda psycho.
@tupiaz said:
I wouldn't even call it close. It is Daredevil.
Elektra is an assassin she along with Foggy made Heather Glenn (Matt's best girlfriend) commit suicide by making a fake break up note from Matt. Karen Page another one of Matt's girlfriend sold his identity for a fix of heroine oh and she had become a porn star after they broke uo and later died in his arms. Later on Matt finds a new girlfriend well she wants to kill him because she believes Daredevil killed her father. Oh and his wife is at mental hospital. Probably forgot a few things a long the way.
What is Batman's biggest problem? He lost one Robin and the rest got tired of him and he doesn't have time for a private nor business life?
Sounds like some who doesn't read Batman commenting on Batman,wish I could say I was surprised.
@granitesoldier: The difference between Batman and Daredevil is pretty large. People like to compare the two but their personalities couldn't be more different.
Batman is cold, logical and distant. He plans everything to the highest degree and uses people like pawns on a chessboard.
Daredevil is angry, passionate and stubborn. Unlike Batman he's ruled by his emotions and he wears them on his sleeve. He constantly goes off half cocked and that can get the better of him but it's also one of his greatest strengths.
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
I wouldn't exactly say that "it's not close" or that Bruce is more dark just because he doesn't have the same moments of humor (often). In fact,sometimes he actually does have moments with Robin or Alfred (although it's usually witty) and as Batman it's usually with The JLA,too (although his humor is a bit dry,and I think that it was done under a certain writer). I think that the humor moments with Foggy add depth to their friendship and reflect it in an accurate way that makes their relationship believable and "realistic" if you know what I mean. But that's just how I read it and whatnot and that's just my sole perspective.
@jonny_anonymous said:
@granitesoldier: The difference between Batman and Daredevil is pretty large. People like to compare the two but their personalities couldn't be more different.
Batman is cold, logical and distant. He plans everything to the highest degree and uses people like pawns on a chessboard.
Daredevil is angry, passionate and stubborn. Unlike Batman he's ruled by his emotions and he wears them on his sleeve. He constantly goes off half cocked and that can get the better of him but it's also one of his greatest strengths.
Well,they both have their similarities (both are dark street level heroes),but I like and agree with your analysis.
@entropy_aegis: Personal attack without any criticism to the subject isn't disproving my point. I have by the way read plenty of Batman and from many different time periods.
@jonny_anonymous said:
@granitesoldier: The difference between Batman and Daredevil is pretty large. People like to compare the two but their personalities couldn't be more different.
Batman is cold, logical and distant. He plans everything to the highest degree and uses people like pawns on a chessboard.
Daredevil is angry, passionate and stubborn. Unlike Batman he's ruled by his emotions and he wears them on his sleeve. He constantly goes off half cocked and that can get the better of him but it's also one of his greatest strengths.
This.
@manwhohaseverything said:
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
Interesting. I wouldn't necessarily say Bruce is darker he just doesn't show emotion which isn't necessarily dark. I would say that Bruce life is a lot less dark than Murdock's life. Bruce life is basically dating hot women and being a businessman. Bruce live a pretty neutral life. Has there been any other story than murder/fugitive that deal with Bruce having personal problems? This again goes back that DC characters is first and foremost heores secondary secret identity. Tony Stark have had more problems as a person than Bruce Wayne.
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
I wouldn't exactly say that "it's not close" or that Bruce is more dark just because he doesn't have the same moments of humor (often). In fact,sometimes he actually does have moments with Robin or Alfred (although it's usually witty) and as Batman it's usually with The JLA,too (although his humor is a bit dry,and I think that it was done under a certain writer). I think that the humor moments with Foggy add depth to their friendship and reflect it in an accurate way that makes their relationship believable and "realistic" if you know what I mean. But that's just how I read it and whatnot and that's just my sole perspective.
I agree with your Foggy/Matt comment. Like I've said "What is meant by dark"? Someone having a relationship in a comic that reminds one of real life with their friends, to me is less dark than some guy that's so out there, it's hard to relate at all. Matt and Foggy are pretty relaistic. When they interact, a veil is lifted off of Matt's dark side. (even if temporarily.) I guess I could say I think Matt Murdock is the real guy, Daredevil is the alter-ego. I'd flip-flop that with Bruce Wayne/Batman.
@manwhohaseverything said:
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
I wouldn't exactly say that "it's not close" or that Bruce is more dark just because he doesn't have the same moments of humor (often). In fact,sometimes he actually does have moments with Robin or Alfred (although it's usually witty) and as Batman it's usually with The JLA,too (although his humor is a bit dry,and I think that it was done under a certain writer). I think that the humor moments with Foggy add depth to their friendship and reflect it in an accurate way that makes their relationship believable and "realistic" if you know what I mean. But that's just how I read it and whatnot and that's just my sole perspective.
I agree with your Foggy/Matt comment. Like I've said "What is meant by dark"? Someone having a relationship in a comic that reminds one of real life with their friends, to me is less dark than some guy that's so out there, it's hard to relate at all. Matt and Foggy are pretty relaistic. When they interact, a veil is lifted off of Matt's dark side. (even if temporarily.) I guess I could say I think Matt Murdock is the real guy, Daredevil is the alter-ego. I'd flip-flop that with Bruce Wayne/Batman.
You have good points. Personally,I see the Murdock side as his most realistic (gives more of a sense of realism to their stories),and the Daredevil part is where he's the most dark,conflicted,etc (with all of the ninjas and demons and resurrections and whatnot).
Current Daredevil,though....It's borderline campy.
By the way,I've been meaning to ask,where is your name from? It sounds familiar...
Darkman
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
I wouldn't exactly say that "it's not close" or that Bruce is more dark just because he doesn't have the same moments of humor (often). In fact,sometimes he actually does have moments with Robin or Alfred (although it's usually witty) and as Batman it's usually with The JLA,too (although his humor is a bit dry,and I think that it was done under a certain writer). I think that the humor moments with Foggy add depth to their friendship and reflect it in an accurate way that makes their relationship believable and "realistic" if you know what I mean. But that's just how I read it and whatnot and that's just my sole perspective.
I agree with your Foggy/Matt comment. Like I've said "What is meant by dark"? Someone having a relationship in a comic that reminds one of real life with their friends, to me is less dark than some guy that's so out there, it's hard to relate at all. Matt and Foggy are pretty relaistic. When they interact, a veil is lifted off of Matt's dark side. (even if temporarily.) I guess I could say I think Matt Murdock is the real guy, Daredevil is the alter-ego. I'd flip-flop that with Bruce Wayne/Batman.
You have good points. Personally,I see the Murdock side as his most realistic (gives more of a sense of realism to their stories),and the Daredevil part is where he's the most dark,conflicted,etc (with all of the ninjas and demons and resurrections and whatnot).
Current Daredevil,though....It's borderline campy.
By the way,I've been meaning to ask,where is your name from? It sounds familiar...
It's a Superman Story Alan Moore wrote. "For the Man Who has Everything" (Superman Annual 11, 1985.) Is yours from the candy bar? :)
@tupiaz said:
@jonny_anonymous said:
@granitesoldier: The difference between Batman and Daredevil is pretty large. People like to compare the two but their personalities couldn't be more different.
Batman is cold, logical and distant. He plans everything to the highest degree and uses people like pawns on a chessboard.
Daredevil is angry, passionate and stubborn. Unlike Batman he's ruled by his emotions and he wears them on his sleeve. He constantly goes off half cocked and that can get the better of him but it's also one of his greatest strengths.
This.
@manwhohaseverything said:
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
Interesting. I wouldn't necessarily say Bruce is darker he just doesn't show emotion which isn't necessarily dark. I would say that Bruce life is a lot less dark than Murdock's life. Bruce life is basically dating hot women and being a businessman. Bruce live a pretty neutral life. Has there been any other story than murder/fugitive that deal with Bruce having personal problems? This again goes back that DC characters is first and foremost heores secondary secret identity. Tony Stark have had more problems as a person than Bruce Wayne.
I actually agree Bruce's life is less dark than Matt's, but I think that's not the question. I mean, if we're basing who's dark based on what their life is like, than Spider-Man is a viable candidate for "darkest hero" Now, I don't think Bruce's life is problem-free. Seeing your parents shot in front of your eyes is traumatic. Daredevil himself realized that when he was being told the origin of The Shroud in the current storyline. A lot of problems Batman has are kind of self-imposed. His parents died, I'd guess, some 20 years ago, and he can't let go. He couldn't let go of Jason. To me that's dark, obsessive, and kinda un-healthy. Again, guess it's how you define dark. To me, it's an attitude. Bruce's attitude may or many not be warranted, but it's there. As you pointed out, he dates hot women and has a billion dollars, not a formula for a dark life, but darn it, he pulls it off. I don't have time now, (it's bed time.) But yes there are stories of Bruce's personal problems. If you want, I'll rattle off a few over the years next time.
@manwhohaseverything said:
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@twix_right_side said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
@testament said:
So Clark and Gordon aren't his friends?? I also wasn't completely referring to who has the darker personality, I was more referring to who has the darkness inside of them. Who has the most demons locked inside of them. And I think I'm leaning more towards Matt on this one. And also Matt has crossed the line before as well, which I think should be noted, Batman was tempted but that's still a line he's not willing to cross.
I might give you Gordon, though there's is totally a work-relationship. Clark..I'm not so sure Superman and Batman are friends. Another guy quite familiar with both characters, Frank Miller, has often said he don't think Clark and Bruce would get along. I know some other writers have had a different take, but I have a hard time seeing Clark and Bruce as friends. Certainly Bruce has no friend as close to him as Foggy is to Matt. I don't think anyhow. While Miller had a darker take on Matt than most writers before or since, I think Matt has had more moments of levity. In fact, isn't that kind of a Marvel v DC trait anyhow (In modern times) DC is serious and dark, while Marvel is more "fun/light hearted."?
I never really thought of Frank Miller as THE definitive writer for Batman. For his origin, yes, everything else, no. I actually really like Jeph Loeb's take on Bat's and Superman's friendship. Jeph Loeb is nowhere near my favorite writer but his take is how I would see them as friends. I agree, Bats is a hard person to be friends with. As for your last question, I'd say it really depends on which character not really the Company. Like Watchman is extremely dark but Flash, Green Lantern and Superman are very light most of the time. I also see Marvel as more violent, cause Marvel tends to have more anti heroes. For Marvel I'd say Moon knight, Blade, Daredevil, Punisher and maybe Wolverine (depending on the writer) are their darkest.
I think your last sentence really tells why it's hard to answer questions like this sometimes. All characters have slightly different (sometimes radically different) takes based on the writer's concept of them. Which Batman are we talking about? Miller's? Loeb? Snyder? Englehart? Wolfman? O'Neil?
Which Daredevil? Miller? Waid? Bendis? O'Neil? Chesterton?
In the end, to me, it is Batman, because I know Murodck and Nelson have moments of levity. Bruce never does. To me, it's why it's not close. I also just realized, I'm basically saying Bruce Wayne is darker than Matt Murdock. Is that the same as Batman being darker than Daredevil? Interesting question.
I wouldn't exactly say that "it's not close" or that Bruce is more dark just because he doesn't have the same moments of humor (often). In fact,sometimes he actually does have moments with Robin or Alfred (although it's usually witty) and as Batman it's usually with The JLA,too (although his humor is a bit dry,and I think that it was done under a certain writer). I think that the humor moments with Foggy add depth to their friendship and reflect it in an accurate way that makes their relationship believable and "realistic" if you know what I mean. But that's just how I read it and whatnot and that's just my sole perspective.
I agree with your Foggy/Matt comment. Like I've said "What is meant by dark"? Someone having a relationship in a comic that reminds one of real life with their friends, to me is less dark than some guy that's so out there, it's hard to relate at all. Matt and Foggy are pretty relaistic. When they interact, a veil is lifted off of Matt's dark side. (even if temporarily.) I guess I could say I think Matt Murdock is the real guy, Daredevil is the alter-ego. I'd flip-flop that with Bruce Wayne/Batman.
You have good points. Personally,I see the Murdock side as his most realistic (gives more of a sense of realism to their stories),and the Daredevil part is where he's the most dark,conflicted,etc (with all of the ninjas and demons and resurrections and whatnot).
Current Daredevil,though....It's borderline campy.
By the way,I've been meaning to ask,where is your name from? It sounds familiar...
It's a Superman Story Alan Moore wrote. "For the Man Who has Everything" (Superman Annual 11, 1985.) Is yours from the candy bar? :)
I think I remember that story. It involves Mongul and some sort of alien object he uses (similar to the one in the JL cartoon,the same episode that your avatar is from? btw that was a sad episode).
And mine is some sort of space-thingy XD
I completely forgot what it was. It's just that I hate the default image so I chose something else for my image. ^__^
Daredevil
@manwhohaseverything said:
I actually agree Bruce's life is less dark than Matt's, but I think that's not the question. I mean, if we're basing who's dark based on what their life is like, than Spider-Man is a viable candidate for "darkest hero" Now, I don't think Bruce's life is problem-free. Seeing your parents shot in front of your eyes is traumatic. Daredevil himself realized that when he was being told the origin of The Shroud in the current storyline. A lot of problems Batman has are kind of self-imposed. His parents died, I'd guess, some 20 years ago, and he can't let go. He couldn't let go of Jason. To me that's dark, obsessive, and kinda un-healthy. Again, guess it's how you define dark. To me, it's an attitude. Bruce's attitude may or many not be warranted, but it's there. As you pointed out, he dates hot women and has a billion dollars, not a formula for a dark life, but darn it, he pulls it off. I don't have time now, (it's bed time.) But yes there are stories of Bruce's personal problems. If you want, I'll rattle off a few over the years next time.
I guess the reason that I don't consider Spider-man or PP's life as dark is his approach towards life. Not since the 80's has he been really revengeful or pissed of. Spider-man is beings Spider-man because he feel he needs to be it; "With great power comes great responsibility". Matt on the other hand is doing it for revenge. He wants to get back at those who killed his father and even though he got Fixer kingpin and crime is still around. PP is Spider-man because of obligation, Matt because we wants to and feel it. His father didn't want him to use his violence but he choose to do it anyway.
Anyway this was not really about Spider-man and DD but Batman and DD. I never said I didn't considered Batman dark nor that he was a light character (even though just like DD he has been portrayed that way. You could claim that Batman is darker because he in the main universe probably won't be as campy as Daredevil is at the moment. The problem is indeed what is meant with dark, is it series, is it character, is it life what is it? Maybe @testament: can give os the answer? What do you mean by dark?
I would BTW like a list of stories there has given Bruce problems.
@tupiaz said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
I actually agree Bruce's life is less dark than Matt's, but I think that's not the question. I mean, if we're basing who's dark based on what their life is like, than Spider-Man is a viable candidate for "darkest hero" Now, I don't think Bruce's life is problem-free. Seeing your parents shot in front of your eyes is traumatic. Daredevil himself realized that when he was being told the origin of The Shroud in the current storyline. A lot of problems Batman has are kind of self-imposed. His parents died, I'd guess, some 20 years ago, and he can't let go. He couldn't let go of Jason. To me that's dark, obsessive, and kinda un-healthy. Again, guess it's how you define dark. To me, it's an attitude. Bruce's attitude may or many not be warranted, but it's there. As you pointed out, he dates hot women and has a billion dollars, not a formula for a dark life, but darn it, he pulls it off. I don't have time now, (it's bed time.) But yes there are stories of Bruce's personal problems. If you want, I'll rattle off a few over the years next time.
I guess the reason that I don't consider Spider-man or PP's life as dark is his approach towards life. Not since the 80's has he been really revengeful or pissed of. Spider-man is beings Spider-man because he feel he needs to be it; "With great power comes great responsibility". Matt on the other hand is doing it for revenge. He wants to get back at those who killed his father and even though he got Fixer kingpin and crime is still around. PP is Spider-man because of obligation, Matt because we wants to and feel it. His father didn't want him to use his violence but he choose to do it anyway.
Anyway this was not really about Spider-man and DD but Batman and DD. I never said I didn't considered Batman dark nor that he was a light character (even though just like DD he has been portrayed that way. You could claim that Batman is darker because he in the main universe probably won't be as campy as Daredevil is at the moment. The problem is indeed what is meant with dark, is it series, is it character, is it life what is it? Maybe @testament: can give os the answer? What do you mean by dark?
I would BTW like a list of stories there has given Bruce problems.
First the obvious: Jason Todd's and Damian Wayne's deaths. I find the earlier comment that having 2 of his Robin's die was not very traumatic to be total bull. Damian was his kid, and Dick, Jason and Tim are like his own kids. To have 2 of the 4 die, I think one can argue is right up there with Elektra dying in DD. A fun side note on Jason Todd's death. Jason was an orphan because Harvey Dent killed his parents. So, one of your major foes kills your partner's parents, and than your #1 foe kills your side-kick. Sounds screwed up to me.
Now a few others: Son of the Demon. So, you do have a kid, and the Mom is the daughter of arguably your most powerful enemy. I'd be like DD having a kid, and finding out grand-dad was Wilson Fisk.
Strange Apparitions: From Detective Comics..I think 470-478. Silver St. Cloud, arguably Batman's best love interest ever. And a woman Bruce really fell for. (Not in a Selina Kyle way either, more like true love.) She figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne, and because of that she cannot be with him. Bruce has a choice to make. Silver St. Cloud or Batman..his true love or his life's calling? Since it's a comic, we all know what he has to choose, but it wasn't easy for him.
In the 1980's Starlin and Wrightson came out with a 4 part Bat-story called "The Cult". Batman is kidnapped by a underground group of homeless folks that are led by a Deacon Blackfire. bat's gets brain-washed and end up working for this group. Which make him a part of some crazy things, such as an attempt of Gordon's life. To be fair, I don't know if this is cannon or not, (Who can tell with DC anymore? Good thing I've never cared about that stuff.) but it's a story with Batman having some huge personal struggles.
Knightfall and the fall-out: I assume we all know about the back-breaking thing in Knightfall...and that's not really a "personal problem" (Not what you're looking for anyhow.) But when J.P Valley takes over the Batman identity and basically turns the Batman M.O on it's head. This guy has no problems with killing. For Bruce, that's a big deal. He struggles both in mind and body as he feels the need to get back to carrying the mantle of the Bat, before this crazy guy destroys the legacy all together.
And..it has been argued that "No Man's Land" is Batman failing. That this even happened is Batman learning that he doesn't really matter...Gotham is going to Hell in hand-basket with or without him.
My point wasn't that it didn't hurt Batman to loose two Robins. But ultimately it was his own fault. He can only blame him self for putting them into danger. Elektra was killed by Bullseye Hired by Mr Slaugther to prevent Elektra klling Foggy there was trying to get the Kingpin jail. Mr. Slaugther of cause wanted to Kingpin's position. Elektra put her self in the situation and wasn't put in it by Daredevil. Therefore I see it as darker. However that Elektra had the job she had making it an occupational hazard.
About Bruce having Damian with Talia, Bruce was happy about getting the child with Talia. In the original story Bruce knew at the time Ra's was Talia's dad. So that is again Batman putting him in a bad situation. Ra's al Ghoul has never in any story I have read gone personally after Bruce but had respect for him. Willson Fisk even though he has shown competitive respect has gone after Matt's personal life multiple times and doesn't just see it as a battle between Kingpin and Daredevil but also against Matt. Ra's see his battle as battle agains Batman and only Batman. Therefore the comparison doesn't fit. Daredevil did fall in love with Kingpin's adoptive daughter so he has been in the realm of the same area.
I have already talked about that kind of relationship Batman had with Sr. Cloud he had the same more or less with Vicki Vale and Julie Madison (Batman's first love). It is an old Batman (and superhero) cliche to whatever he should or should not tell/whatever he should be Batman or have a normal life.
Both Knightfall, No Manøs Land and the cult are Batman's problem not Bruce's.
@tupiaz said:
@manwhohaseverything said:
I actually agree Bruce's life is less dark than Matt's, but I think that's not the question. I mean, if we're basing who's dark based on what their life is like, than Spider-Man is a viable candidate for "darkest hero" Now, I don't think Bruce's life is problem-free. Seeing your parents shot in front of your eyes is traumatic. Daredevil himself realized that when he was being told the origin of The Shroud in the current storyline. A lot of problems Batman has are kind of self-imposed. His parents died, I'd guess, some 20 years ago, and he can't let go. He couldn't let go of Jason. To me that's dark, obsessive, and kinda un-healthy. Again, guess it's how you define dark. To me, it's an attitude. Bruce's attitude may or many not be warranted, but it's there. As you pointed out, he dates hot women and has a billion dollars, not a formula for a dark life, but darn it, he pulls it off. I don't have time now, (it's bed time.) But yes there are stories of Bruce's personal problems. If you want, I'll rattle off a few over the years next time.
I guess the reason that I don't consider Spider-man or PP's life as dark is his approach towards life. Not since the 80's has he been really revengeful or pissed of. Spider-man is beings Spider-man because he feel he needs to be it; "With great power comes great responsibility". Matt on the other hand is doing it for revenge. He wants to get back at those who killed his father and even though he got Fixer kingpin and crime is still around. PP is Spider-man because of obligation, Matt because we wants to and feel it. His father didn't want him to use his violence but he choose to do it anyway.
Anyway this was not really about Spider-man and DD but Batman and DD. I never said I didn't considered Batman dark nor that he was a light character (even though just like DD he has been portrayed that way. You could claim that Batman is darker because he in the main universe probably won't be as campy as Daredevil is at the moment. The problem is indeed what is meant with dark, is it series, is it character, is it life what is it? Maybe @testament: can give os the answer? What do you mean by dark?
I would BTW like a list of stories there has given Bruce problems.
"Not since the 80's has he been really revengeful or pissed of." Cough* "Back in Black" cough*. I agree Spidey is who he is because of obligation and also guilt. But yea let's keep this about Matt and Bruce for now and if anyone had a dark life that would be my boy Logan but like I said, DD and Bats. What I mean by dark is inner Darkness if you know what I mean. Someone can fake being happy or in a good mood but they can't hide what's truly inside of them. Who is more angrier. Who feels he may give in to the Darkness if he lets himself. This isn't about personality or even about past but it's about true inner darkness, pain and anger.
My conclusion..
I believe that DD is much more brutal than Batman ever was. He routinely beats opponents into traction regardless of whether or not they have powers. He's killed before, in fact when battling the Hand, he kills their ninjas without a second thought even though they are human beings. He's also used deadly force against common thugs during times when he's been driven to insanity. He's torched criminals, specifically Hammerhead, Bullseye, and Ox and even said he felt good about it. When was the last time Batman suspended Bane from the ceiling with chains and went at him with a blow torch or carved a target into Joker's head with a rock? Finally, DD has actually attempted to murder both of his arch villains. During born again, he went into the Kingpin's office with the intention of murdering him and was severely beaten, though in a what if story, it clearly shows murderous intent. He's done the same to Bullseye. In fact he found out his secret identity and his past during a time when he stalked Bullseye with the intention of killing him in his sleep. He crosses the line more despite being a lawyer...
Darker Personality- Batman
More likely to give in to the Darkness- Daredevil
Darker past- It's about a tie for me, Batman/Daredevil
Hard time dealing with his problems- Batman
Crosses the line more- Daredevil
More likely to kill- Daredevil
More anger- Batman
Daredevil wins but NOT by a lot. This was very close but Matt is the darker hero. And there both awesome
Batman
@testament: I agree with your analyse however not your conclusions or at least I need to understand why Batman has more anger when your analyse indicates that Daredevil is control more by his feelings and are more likely to cross the line?
About who has the darkest personality then it depends on what your definition is. If you by darker personality means more obsessed with his alter ego then I agree Batman has a darker personality. If you by darker personality means how I would least meet when they are pissed of then I would say Daredevil. Batman has on multiple occasions felt sorry for low ranking criminals (for instance the Dark Knight returns). You don't see Daredevil with the same feelings he often thrash bars and harass low ranking criminals (like Turk) to get information. Batman more plays on fear low ranking members have than actually do anything.
Darker personality as in, he is dark all the time. Batman is usually brooding. You rarely see Bats have a light moment like you do with Matt and Foggy and like I said Bruce is the alter ego and Batman is who he is. Batman is angry all the time, that's why I felt he deserved that one.
@testament said:
Darker personality as in, he is dark all the time. Batman is usually brooding. You rarely see Bats have a light moment like you do with Matt and Foggy and like I said Bruce is the alter ego and Batman is who he is. Batman is angry all the time, that's why I felt he deserved that one.
Batman isn't angry all the time. He is cold and distant there is a huge difference there. Batman is obsessed haunting down criminals and is very analytical but he is not angry when he is searching for clues in the Batcave. If he was angry when he was searching for clues it would take focus from what he is doing and didn't see things clear. Batman has over the time had many light moments with the different Robins that has been a way for creators to make some light moments. Robin, Alfred and various women make some light in Batman's life.
What would you put and why?
Darker Personality?
More likely to give in to the Darkness?
Darker past?
Hard time dealing with his problems?
Crosses the line more?
More likely to kill?
More anger?
Darker Personality:
When worst? Daredevil because he give in to his feelings Batman doesn't do that he is just cold, distant and analytical.
At the moment? Batman.
In general? Probably Batman because Daredevil has had more lighter periods.
More likely to give in to the Darkness?
Daredevil because he is controlled by feelings.
Darker past?
Close I will however go for Daredevil because his enemies has gone after his civilian life. That I haven't seen with Batman.
The rest of the question can all be answered with Daredevil because he is controlled more by feelings than Batman is.
I would have given this to Batman but after reading some informative posts, I think I'll give the edge to Matt.
This my friend.... is something I agree with :)
Hey I'm thinking about reading Shadowland. Would you recommend it?
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