#1 Edited by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just wondering. It seems all the original Marvel characters aimed to be a bit more, uh...."realistic" and everyone usually had some means of being able to fly. I was wondering if anyone knew who the first character introduced was that could fly without any means to do so.
 
I suppose it was Carol Danvers

#2 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3572 posts) - - Show Bio

Define unaided. The Human Torch (Jim Hammond) was the first Marvel character. He could fly, but it was because he could direct his fire (or whatever). He was also an android and was therefore given the ability to fly instead of having any natural abilities.

#3 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kal'smahboi said:
Define unaided. The Human Torch (Jim Hammond) was the first Marvel character. He could fly, but it was because he could direct his fire (or whatever). He was also an android and was therefore given the ability to fly instead of having any natural abilities.
Good point. Hammond is aided by his flame, which, while it was a natural ability it was still an explanation. I mean someone like Superman who can just walk out the door without activating anything or turning into fire and just taking off into the skies.
#4 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

Namor

#5 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rumble Man said:

Namor

His ankle wings explain his flight. when they are damaged...he can't fly
#6 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3572 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
@Kal'smahboi said:
Define unaided. The Human Torch (Jim Hammond) was the first Marvel character. He could fly, but it was because he could direct his fire (or whatever). He was also an android and was therefore given the ability to fly instead of having any natural abilities.
Good point. Hammond is aided by his flame, which, while it was a natural ability it was still an explanation. I mean someone like Superman who can just walk out the door without activating anything or turning into fire and just taking off into the skies.
Exactly. But your statement assumes that Superman simply flies without a natural reason. There has to be an explanation for it, even if we're never given one. What is the real difference between turning into fire and, say, releasing gravitons in order to fly? So assuming that Supes has a biological mechanism for flight, I'd still say the Human Torch was the first to fly unaided, because the ability is still his, not borne of a device or magic or what have you.
#7 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm...

I wanna say it's Captain Marvel, but I feel that there was definitely someone before him.

#8 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kal'smahboi said:
Exactly. But your statement assumes that Superman simply flies without a natural reason. There has to be an explanation for it, even if we're never given one. What is the real difference between turning into fire and, say, releasing gravitons in order to fly? So assuming that Supes has a biological mechanism for flight, I'd still say the Human Torch was the first to fly unaided, because the ability is still his, not borne of a device or magic or what have you.
Now this is getting complicated, LOL. 
 
OK, I mean a character that doesn't need to do anything before taking off, like just up up and away. Hammond needs to turn into fire and propel himself through flame...he just can't take off. As stated above Namor needs his wingy things so I mean characters that fly without any kind of aid
 
@Gambit1024 said:

Hm...

I wanna say it's Captain Marvel, but I feel that there was definitely someone before him.

Nope...at first he needed the Nega Bands to achieve flight.
#9 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Miss America?

#10 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024 said:

Miss America?

Nope..she had psionic ability and levitated herself, that would be like saying Jean Grey can fly IMO. I mean someone who can just get up and fly without having to rely on something
#11 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

Namor or Human Torch depending on which was published first (Both first appeared in oct. 1939) and they both were technically Marvel's first super heroes

#12 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5610 posts) - - Show Bio

Namor. If he was born with the wings they're not an aid. They're apart of him.

#13 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
I don't see why this is so complicated...yes the characters everyone is naming are old and can fly...but most of them need to utilize something to do so, I am looking for a character that just flies without a specific item or ability like telekinesis or wind control or ankle wings
 
@joshmightbe said:

Namor or Human Torch depending on which was published first (Both first appeared in oct. 1939) and they both were technically Marvel's first super heroes


Both rely on an ability to do so, Hammond or any human torch used fire like jet propulsion. Namor has his wings.
 
@WaveMotionCannon said:
Namor. If he was born with the wings they're not an aid. They're apart of him.

If they are gone he cannot fly though...therefore they give him ability to fly...much like if you cut off Warren Worthingtons wings he cannot fly. I am looking for someone like Martian Manhunter that can just fly
#14 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@Rumble Man said:

Namor

His ankle wings explain his flight. when they are damaged...he can't fly

All flight is explained in Marvel, Carol Danver's flight is explained by her origin so your specifications aren't very clear. If you mean self propelled flight then Namor and Human Torch count since they are using their own abilities to do it, if you mean completely unexplained ability to fly Marvel has no characters like that, Carol basically uses a form of energy manipulation which basically means she does the same thing the Human Torch does just with a different type of energy (He used heat energy to propel himself.)

#15 Posted by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:


All flight is explained in Marvel, Carol Danver's flight is explained by her origin so your specifications aren't very clear. If you mean self propelled flight then Namor and Human Torch count since they are using their own abilities to do it, if you mean completely unexplained ability to fly Marvel has no characters like that, Carol basically uses a form of energy manipulation which basically means she does the same thing the Human Torch does just with a different type of energy (He used heat energy to propel himself.)

Yes, all flight is explained, but something like Danvers flying or Monet St. Croix is unaided. For instance Rogue had Danvers powers and couldn't manipulate energy but could fly....these people just propel themselves through the air.
#16 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: M's flight is telekinetic and when Rouge absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers she did take her low level energy manipulating ability which enabled her to fly, when I say energy manipulation I don't mean like firing energy blasts and crap like that I just mean that her abilities enable her to use a form of energy that allows her to fly so it is technically energy manipulation.

#17 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh heh - OP is asking for a character who can fly whose ability to fly is really just the writer going eh, its fiction, just let them fly because... of course thats a bit tricky because most writers try to give some silly explanation in lieu of no reason, but hmm. How did the original Vision fly? I can't remember? I dunno I think Dr Strange and Silver Surfer - then again his cloak and Surfer';s power cosmic and surfboard... Hyperion?  

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#18 Edited by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:

@cattlebattle: M's flight is telekinetic and when Rouge absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers she did take her low level energy manipulating ability which enabled her to fly, when I say energy manipulation I don't mean like firing energy blasts and crap like that I just mean that her abilities enable her to use a form of energy that allows her to fly so it is technically energy manipulation.

I see, so I suppose Ms Marvel would be the first then being her explanation is a bit technical. I was looking for someone who could just straight out fly around without the need of a definitive explanation. None of this "natural ability" stuff. I mean Carol Danvers just gets up and flies. I guess Miss America could count but hers is levitating herself with telekinetics, it isn't exactly flight. I can't really accept Hammond or Namor because if Namor has no wings...he can't fly....and if hammond isn't on fire, he can't fly. I was trying to find the first character that could just fly around like Captain Marvel (Btson) or Martian Manhunter or any of the other heroes that possess flight.
#19 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Vision flies via density manipulation, basically he makes himself lighter than air

#20 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Carol's ability to fly isn't all that different from Hammond tho, because like I said she just uses a different type of energy

#21 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:

@SC: Vision flies via density manipulation, basically he makes himself lighter than air

Non android Vision does that too? I know he controls gases and smoke but never remembered him controlling his own density. Then again I can't remember much about him. 
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#22 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: So why do you need to know? Why is it important?

#23 Edited by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:

Heh heh - OP is asking for a character who can fly whose ability to fly is really just the writer going eh, its fiction, just let them fly because... of course thats a bit tricky because most writers try to give some silly explanation in lieu of no reason, but hmm. How did the original Vision fly? I can't remember? I dunno I think Dr Strange and Silver Surfer - then again his cloak and Surfer';s power cosmic and surfboard... Hyperion?  

OK...you didn't have to infer that I am overly assuming things. I understand writers just have characters fly for the hell of it and then give them some half assed scientific explanation....its comics. It just noticed that in the early days DC was more prone to saying "f*ck it, this guy can fly" While Marvel had more of an abundance of having people fly through an explanation whether its riding on a winged creature or having wings on their anatomy, or even some sort of "kenisis" power. I was simply wondering who the very first Marvel character who could fly like Superman or Wonder Woman with some weird explanation.
 
@joshmightbe said:

@cattlebattle: Carol's ability to fly isn't all that different from Hammond tho, because like I said she just uses a different type of energy


Hammond has to turn into fire though, therefore...the fire aids him. Carol just flies without aid. Hammond is relying on something. Apparently we are viewing this in two different ways.
#24 Posted by LoganX360 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman needs the " earths " sun to fly , without earths sun superman cant fly , he has no energy he cant fly , kryptonite ,, or being powned by an alien cyborg he cant fly . so i think anyone that flys has some type of aid to get up there .

#25 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
OK...you didn't have to infer that I am overly assuming things. I understand writers just have characters fly for the hell of it and then give them some half assed scientific explanation....its comics. It just noticed that in the early days DC was more prone to saying "f*ck it, this guy can fly" While Marvel had more of an abundance of having people fly through an explanation whether its riding on a winged creature or having wings on their anatomy, or even some sort of "kenisis" power. I was simply wondering who the very first Marvel character who could fly like Superman or Wonder Woman with some weird explanation. 
 
Say what? I was defending you =p  
 
Hence why I mentioned and ruled out some of my own choices already aware Namor, Human Torch I and II, Wasp, Thor, all couldn't count - but I did give Vision I and Hyperion.... unless....?  I get what you were saying. Namor flew then Captain Marvel and Superman were like hey!! I am still betting on Hyperion (ironically enough)   
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#26 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1542 posts) - - Show Bio

ya wasn't namor the first mutant and first one that flew?

#27 Posted by joshmightbe (25009 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Hammond originally had to concentrate to turn off the flame since it was his natural state so technically in his natural state he can just get up and fly when ever he feels like it

#28 Edited by cattlebattle (13168 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:

@cattlebattle said:


 Say what? I was defending you =p   Hence why I mentioned and ruled out some of my own choices already aware Namor, Human Torch I and II, Wasp, Thor, all couldn't count - but I did give Vision I and Hyperion.... unless....?  I get what you were saying. Namor flew then Captain Marvel and Superman were like hey!! I am still betting on Hyperion (ironically enough)   
My bad, I am at work and I am just glossing through things and misinterpreted, sorry.
 
I was trying to understand that seeing as how most original Marvel characters had real world applications of flight regardless of powers, Hammond flew through jet propulsion, so did Iron Man,  Telekinitics could realistically imitate flight if they existed...a lot of people had wings or had a winged horse or something. Thor threw his hammer with such force he would appear as if he was flying. Captain Mar-Vell had Nega Bands, which were alien so it kind of goes against "real world applications" but he couldn't fly without them anyways. Then....conversely, when you look at DC its like X character flies through dispelling magical forces blah, blah, blah.
 
I think Ms. Marvel would be the first that could just fly without some logical, unaided reasoning.
#29 Posted by SC (13299 posts) - - Show Bio
@cattlebattle said:
My bad, I am at work and I am just glossing through things and misinterpreted, sorry.  I was trying to understand that seeing as how most original Marvel characters had real world applications of flight regardless of powers, Hammond flew through jet propulsion, so did Iron Man,  Telekinitics could realistically imitate flight if they existed...a lot of people had wings or had a winged horse or something. Thor threw his hammer with such force he would appear as if he was flying. Captain Mar-Vell had Nega Bands, which were alien so it kind of goes against "real world applications" but he couldn't fly without them anyways. Then....conversely, when you look at DC its like X character flies through dispelling magical forces blah, blah, blah.  I think Ms. Marvel would be the first that could just fly without some logical, unaided reasoning.
 
Thats okay, I can see that wording has caused a lot of confusion and different replies/responses to what you were looking for. **smile** 
 
Yah exactly, Stan Lee especially was pretty idiosyncratic with characters powers. Let me try to paint a time line. I know Ms Marvel beats Hyperion by a year Ms Marvel in at March 1968, but wasn't it a few months until she got powered? In fact a few years no? Hyperion weighs in on Oct. 1969 and Vision as in Aarkus comes in around November 1940 (Timely character but still active in Marvel) that character could fly, but I don't know if they explained it? He was a supernatural alien type character.  
 
Also good person to ask is Rheged, the person I know that knows more about Namor than any other person I know, because I am not sure if Namor always had his winged feet? I know he doesn't on his first cover, but I am not sure whether thats just a cover mistake. The only person I really remember wanting "reasons" for flight was Stan Lee which means that Namor and Vision may not have had "reasons" to fly with Namor getting his ankle wings later (and Vision not reappearing into Marvel continuity much much later) - but I really can't remember and I haven't sleep for a while... not even sure I am real...... 0_0 
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