Who's more evil, Darkseid or Joker?

i'd say Darkseid.

Hard to pick but I am picking Joker.

joker.

They are both equally evil IMO. The difference between them is their methods, rather than their madness. We can do this using the alignment system, its not perfect but it sums up what they are about.

Darkseid is a classic example of Lawful evil. This doesnt make him anymore less evil than Joker, but his motivations are usually some kind of Empire in his image, or rule with him as supreme dictator.

Joker is the other side, Chaotic Evil. In fact Joker is the embodiment of Chaotic Evil and one of the best examples in fiction. Joker is just wanton destruction with no regard for anything, he just acts on his own whims. Chaotic evil characters are usually considered no more evil than Lawful, but they sometimes are considered more dangerous because of their unpredictability.

@cogitate: But Joker is just insane. Darkseid has a motive. He wants to enslave universes, he enjoys seeing people tortured and put to submission. Joker is more of a product of society. The way i see it, Joker is the product of evil, and Darkseid IS evil.

@thecowwasdelirious: Meh, the insane argument can be used for Darkseid as well. Anyone who is "evil" is technically insane. Both are products of society. Their goals are just different. Darkseid wants to control and rule as a despot. Joker just wants to see the world burn. Both of them get their rocks off doing evil.

Joker could be a product of society but he still does evil acts. Remember, evil is 100% selfishness without regard for others' wellbeing. Both of them fit the mold. Their methods are just different.

There are examples of insane characters that aren't evil, but it's slim pickings. Take Deadpool for example. Deadpool is classic Chaotic Neutral.

@cogitate: But Darkseid is the literal embodification of evil imo.

Darksied

That, is not correct.

Evil, morality and values are all concepts of the human creation. Being insane has nothing to do with evil, nor vice versa. Psychopath =/= sociopath.

At most, it could be called a personality disorder. Nothing more.

Darkseid by far. No contest.

Joker is just a person with a mental problem. It has been shown numerous times that it is because of his mental state that he is what he is. If he were to become sane (as shown a few times) he would feel horrible about what he has done.

DS of course, enjoys what he does while having no mental problems at all. He is just evil.

@nickthedevil: You're not making any sense. Psychopath does not equal sociopath? And? Evil, morality, values are indeed concepts of human beings, but so is mental stability.

Insanity is such a subjective term. But being insane is nearly always associated with evil. Let's put it this way - you can be insane and not be evil. But usually if you're evil, you're nearly always insane. How many villains in comics are considered insane in some capacity? Pretty much every single one of them. Joker, Darkseid, Thanos, Two Face, the Riddler, Killer Croc, Spidey's Lizard, Dr. Doom, Goblin, Clayface, the list goes on and on. I could even make a case for Lex Luthor. Now, yes yes there are exception but really, any villain is usually not thinking straight.

Insanity is no excuse for evil actions. And I don't care what the courts say.

The problem is that evil and insanity are so such subjective terms that a debate is nearly pointless, anyway.

I see Darkseid as a war monger like Hitler that might actually think what he's doing is right. While Joker knows how f*cked up he is and that the things he's doing are just evil..

I'm going to let you know, I used to study criminal behavioral pathology. You are arguing a misconception.

No it isn't. Dogs can fall victim to Schizophrenia, PTSD and a number of other mental disorders. It's not a human concept. It's been found in various forms of life.

You get this statistic from where?

You have no idea what you're talking about. The Riddler and Lex show personality disorder at best. Obsessive compulsive disorders of very different levels. It's even known that Riddler goes to Blackgate, on very rare occasion, does he actually go to Arkham.

We agree on only this point.

@nickthedevil: And I just want to put in Penguin as someone else who goes to Blackgate.

He is a gang leader, murderer, and has even tried to kill children and he is sane.

@eyedcyou: but as i said above, Joker is just insane. Darkseid was born evil, he IS evil, he breathes evil. Joker is just a product of people like darkseid.

And Darkseid doesn't enjoy the feel of his opponents under his heel? Doesn't aim to cause chaos and suffering just as much, if not moreso than the Joker?

Aside from this, even for all The Joker does, there's still good in him.

Pretty sure the mind of Darkseid is simply a machine constantly trying to come up with new ways to enslave those around him.

This has been asked before but whatever. Darkseid is more evil. Joker's just plain insane.

Is this even a contest?

Darkseid's sole aim in life is to acquire the freakin' anti-life equation, meaning that he wants all living things to surrender their free will to him.

Maybe.......THE GOD OF EVIL!!

Beata

Darkseid.

Lex luthor (the Flash) is far more evil:

@nickthedevil: @cogitate: Hmmm.

Of course that you should not go to jail if you are medically insane and not responsible of your acts. I'm afraid you forgot or misunderstood what you learned in College. You should probably work a little bit with real patients to get that.

For the OP, Darkseid scale of operation put him in another league.

In addition, Spectre could not judge the Joker because he did not completely understand his actions as he lacked a conscious.

Darkseid knows what is good and bad. He just chooses to be bad since he enjoys it.

Looks good to me.

dark seid is a dark seed, joker is that seed sprouted. CLAP IT UP FOR METAPHORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

Signed,

L. D.

Interesting debate going on here ^_^

Darkseid

This has been done.

And Joker doesn't compare. Ever.

Darkseid.

This.

Joker wants chaos.

Bad things happening in that chaos are just chance.

Darkseid wants pain, agony, and yes, ultimately control on a universal scale.

Joker seems content screwing with Batman in their eternal game of cat and mouse.

Just because you have a reason, doesn't make you less evil. It's all about the person and the things they do, in my opinion.

think about it this way. what would joker do if he had darkseids powers and ruled over apokolips. i think joker wouldve killed everyone and moved on to a new planet. i say joker, the dude is just sick

Also, i'd say that Darkseid is the equivalent of the devil in the DCU. He's an evil god, the evil in him is an ancient evil, a neverending fire that will not go out until Darkseid rules the multiverse. Joker wasn't born evil. Something along the way only turned him evil.

@thecowwasdelirious:

Yeah, but you know what they said about the faith of the newly converted, mmh ?

One will do evil to you randomly, another is doing evil you with a purpose. In the end, it doesn't make any difference, you're still a victim.

@xaos: Sooo, if either a mugger or a dictator kills you, they're equally evil? I don't follow.

Joker is more insane but Darkseid is more pure evil.

@thecowwasdelirious:

One man die it's a tragedy, one million is a statistic or one man is a statistic and one million is a tragedy ?

You decide !

Joker murder on whim, Darkseid kill with a plan. It's still a kill and it make no difference for the victim and his family.

@xaos: yeah but that's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing who's more evil.

@thecowwasdelirious:

M'okay, thinking it trough, Darkside is more evil IMO, because it's more planned and more on the big scale. (Joker think local and personnal, Darside think impersonnal but global.)

@xaos: good choise.

i would go Joker.

What's the difference between the two reasons I've made bold?

Me.

@maccyd Its actually a big difference between the act that can give you something and act you make just for fun.

darkseid wants to end free will while joker does it to annoy batman.