Honestly the perfect anti hero would be a villain being that anti by definition means one who is against, so one who is against heroes would be a villain
Honestly the perfect anti hero would be a villain being that anti by definition means one who is against, so one who is against heroes would be a villain
That would be true if 'terms' always meant exactly what the words they are made of mean... But they don't.
Near miss - Describes an incident in which two planes nearly collided. It is not, however, called a near-collision, but rather a near-miss.
Sound Board - A sound board can refer to a board over which piano strings are stretched, or it can refer to an electronic device used to control the volume from different sound sources.
Stand Down - Doesn't actually mean to 'stand' down...
Drive Way - Isn't really somewhere you drive but rather somewhere you PARK.
Parkway - A parkway on the other hand, isn't somewhere you should park, EVER, but rather somewhere you should drive....
Irregardless - Which ISN'T really a word at all but I'm afraid it's making it's way into dictionaries... There is Regard (which means consider or think of) and Regardless (which means to NOT consider or think of) Ir -regard - less, logically means NOT WITHOUT regard, which means, REGARD... However, people have used it incorrectly for so long that irregardless has come to mean regardless.. This is the nature of languages and how they change and develop over time...
Now, one of the defining characteristics of an anti-hero is the fact they he/she is a protagonist... We (the reader or audience) are meant to identify with them... We understand their cause and agree with it on some level... This isn't the villain.
And Anti-hero IS a hero, but he's different than most heroes, his or her methods are often seen as contrary to those of orthodox or mainstream heroes...
@Timandm: Someone's a George Carlin fan, but anyway crap like this is the reason English is considered one of the top 5 most difficult languages to learn because it has completely idiotic rules that don't make any freaking sense
@Glitch_Spawn: Oh man! I think I might have actually read that four part series when it first came out... Um.. not that I'm old enough to have read it when it first came out... but i did... I recall thinking how brilliant it was... Do you know if that's from the series where he starts off by taking down something like a crack house and working his way up the chain to the drug lord in South America?
Honestly the perfect anti hero would be a villain being that anti by definition means one who is against, so one who is against heroes would be a villain
That would be true if 'terms' always meant exactly what the words they are made of mean... But they don't.
Near miss - Describes an incident in which two planes nearly collided. It is not, however, called a near-collision, but rather a near-miss.
Sound Board - A sound board can refer to a board over which piano strings are stretched, or it can refer to an electronic device used to control the volume from different sound sources.
Stand Down - Doesn't actually mean to 'stand' down...
Drive Way - Isn't really somewhere you drive but rather somewhere you PARK.
Parkway - A parkway on the other hand, isn't somewhere you should park, EVER, but rather somewhere you should drive....
Irregardless - Which ISN'T really a word at all but I'm afraid it's making it's way into dictionaries... There is Regard (which means consider or think of) and Regardless (which means to NOT consider or think of) Ir -regard - less, logically means NOT WITHOUT regard, which means, REGARD... However, people have used it incorrectly for so long that irregardless has come to mean regardless.. This is the nature of languages and how they change and develop over time...
Now, one of the defining characteristics of an anti-hero is the fact they he/she is a protagonist... We (the reader or audience) are meant to identify with them... We understand their cause and agree with it on some level... This isn't the villain.
And Anti-hero IS a hero, but he's different than most heroes, his or her methods are often seen as contrary to those of orthodox or mainstream heroes...
@Timandm: In the four part series he tried to pit all the gangs of New York against each other after breaking out of prison and getting involved with the Trust who later betray and try to kill him. I actually think the South American drug lord came into play right at the beginning of the second series. Frank takes down a head drug lord and poses as an ambitious dealer who wishes to take over for the man he killed. If I remember right the boss in South America ended up being a veteran of the Vietnamese military. Anyway, I'm not old enough to have bought them when they came out either lol. I'm only 19. The issues I have were just what inspired me to really get into comics. I got them from MCS a while back.
Punisher. Logan may of been one of the original anti-heroes, but Punisher is pretty much THE archetype for an anti-hero nowadays. Normal heroes put the villains in jail so they break out again. Frank puts a bullet in their vitals to make sure they stay down for good. He's a psychotic mass-murderer, but he's more efficient then most police departments could ever hope to be.
Punisher. Logan may of been one of the original anti-heroes, but Punisher is pretty much THE archetype for an anti-hero nowadays. Normal heroes put the villains in jail so they break out again. Frank puts a bullet in their vitals to make sure they stay down for good. He's a psychotic mass-murderer, but he's more efficient then most police departments could ever hope to be.
@damswedon said:
Depending on who writes him Batman is an anti-hero.
Oh and Judge Dredd.
Batman isn't an anti-hero, He's more gritty but because he isn't willing to kill he's still got goody two shoes in him.
@Jnr6Lil: Like I said "Depending on who writes him", Frank Millar's Batman is an anti-hero (based on Dirty Harry) and a lunatic, Bob Kane's early Batman was an anti-hero (based on a mix of Dick Tracy and Superman) but the Batman of the 50's wasn't. Batman uses tactics like torture and extreme intimidation to get what he wants, much like characters like Judge Dredd, the Punisher and Rorschach.
Batman terrorises his victims to trick them into leading them to their bosses and arguably making them worse once they are caught. When you compare that to Judge Dredd whose devotion to the law means he will always send the creep to the cubes it makes Batman look worse off.
Now lets say Batman isn't an anti-hero. What is?
The Punisher sure isn't. He does unlawful actions for the sake of good, but he is always the good guy. Regardless of his actions he is the good guy. A true anti-hero would be neutral, a Deadpool or Spawn. An true anti-hero is in it for themselves but has good tendencies.
@Timandm: In the four part series he tried to pit all the gangs of New York against each other after breaking out of prison and getting involved with the Trust who later betray and try to kill him. I actually think the South American drug lord came into play right at the beginning of the second series. Frank takes down a head drug lord and poses as an ambitious dealer who wishes to take over for the man he killed. If I remember right the boss in South America ended up being a veteran of the Vietnamese military. Anyway, I'm not old enough to have bought them when they came out either lol. I'm only 19. The issues I have were just what inspired me to really get into comics. I got them from MCS a while back.
When I said I wasn't old enough to have bought them, I might have been.. um.. What's a good euphemism for "lying"? LOL... Yeah, I think I have shoes older than you. But, I took an instant liking to Punisher way back when... I think many people are just 'used' to punisher.. Sort of desensitized. But back in the 70s and 80s... Man, he made an impression.. Not that he isn't doing the same today...
@Jnr6Lil: Like I said "Depending on who writes him", Frank Millar's Batman is an anti-hero (based on Dirty Harry) and a lunatic, Bob Kane's early Batman was an anti-hero (based on a mix of Dick Tracy and Superman) but the Batman of the 50's wasn't. Batman uses tactics like torture and extreme intimidation to get what he wants, much like characters like Judge Dredd, the Punisher and Rorschach.
Batman terrorises his victims to trick them into leading them to their bosses and arguably making them worse once they are caught. When you compare that to Judge Dredd whose devotion to the law means he will always send the creep to the cubes it makes Batman look worse off.
Now lets say Batman isn't an anti-hero. What is?
The Punisher sure isn't. He does unlawful actions for the sake of good, but he is always the good guy. Regardless of his actions he is the good guy. A true anti-hero would be neutral, a Deadpool or Spawn. An true anti-hero is in it for themselves but has good tendencies.
When you put it that way, I do agree Frank is more of a hero.
V from V for Vendetta is an example of a true anti hero.
He doesn't pretend he's a hero, nor is he a blood crazed killer that is killing because he misses his family.
V fights for and against ideologies, and he believes the result would justify acts of violence he committed.
I do agree on the V part, he's an excellent example, but if you are referring to Frank, I do have to disagree. Write it off as either insanity or as him truly believing in his cause, but he is doing what he's doing for a reason. Nor does he think he's a hero. He thinks he's just a means to an end that very few people are willing to become.
From any work of fiction? I would have to add The Man With No Name from The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.
Dirty Harry is another fictional character that is one of the most well developed anti-heroes I've ever seen.
From comics, I'll go with Frank Castle, a.k.a. The Punisher. Spawn(both Simmons and Downing) is another great anti-hero.
Wolverine is a tricky subject, when it comes down to defining him as an "anti-hero". Recently, he has definitely become a wise voice of reason with practically no ulterior motives and a heroic sensibility. But his past suggests that he was at one point a figurative monster. So it really depends on your view of the character as a whole.
Daredevil has always been a stellar anti-hero in my eyes.
Moon Knight is another good one, especially with his recent books.
Depends on what the OP means by anti-hero. It doesn't just include "mean heroes," but any protagonist who doesn't fit the traditional mold of a hero. For example, Butterball is a great example of an anti-hero.
@Jnr6Lil: Like I said "Depending on who writes him", Frank Millar's Batman is an anti-hero (based on Dirty Harry) and a lunatic, Bob Kane's early Batman was an anti-hero (based on a mix of Dick Tracy and Superman) but the Batman of the 50's wasn't. Batman uses tactics like torture and extreme intimidation to get what he wants, much like characters like Judge Dredd, the Punisher and Rorschach.
Batman terrorises his victims to trick them into leading them to their bosses and arguably making them worse once they are caught. When you compare that to Judge Dredd whose devotion to the law means he will always send the creep to the cubes it makes Batman look worse off.
Now lets say Batman isn't an anti-hero. What is?
The Punisher sure isn't. He does unlawful actions for the sake of good, but he is always the good guy. Regardless of his actions he is the good guy. A true anti-hero would be neutral, a Deadpool or Spawn. An true anti-hero is in it for themselves but has good tendencies.
Punisher isn't neutral? He's hated by MOST OF THE GOOD-GUYS.
@Jnr6Lil: Like I said "Depending on who writes him", Frank Millar's Batman is an anti-hero (based on Dirty Harry) and a lunatic, Bob Kane's early Batman was an anti-hero (based on a mix of Dick Tracy and Superman) but the Batman of the 50's wasn't. Batman uses tactics like torture and extreme intimidation to get what he wants, much like characters like Judge Dredd, the Punisher and Rorschach.
Batman terrorises his victims to trick them into leading them to their bosses and arguably making them worse once they are caught. When you compare that to Judge Dredd whose devotion to the law means he will always send the creep to the cubes it makes Batman look worse off.
Now lets say Batman isn't an anti-hero. What is?
The Punisher sure isn't. He does unlawful actions for the sake of good, but he is always the good guy. Regardless of his actions he is the good guy. A true anti-hero would be neutral, a Deadpool or Spawn. An true anti-hero is in it for themselves but has good tendencies.
Punisher isn't neutral? He's hated by MOST OF THE GOOD-GUYS.
What does the thoughts of others have to do with his morality?
Using that argument Judge Dredd is a full on boy scout because the judges think he is the best at what he does. What you are saying is that Judge Joe Dredd A FACIST is morally on par with Superman because the perceived good guys in that universe admire him.
@Jnr6Lil: Like I said "Depending on who writes him", Frank Millar's Batman is an anti-hero (based on Dirty Harry) and a lunatic, Bob Kane's early Batman was an anti-hero (based on a mix of Dick Tracy and Superman) but the Batman of the 50's wasn't. Batman uses tactics like torture and extreme intimidation to get what he wants, much like characters like Judge Dredd, the Punisher and Rorschach.
Batman terrorises his victims to trick them into leading them to their bosses and arguably making them worse once they are caught. When you compare that to Judge Dredd whose devotion to the law means he will always send the creep to the cubes it makes Batman look worse off.
Now lets say Batman isn't an anti-hero. What is?
The Punisher sure isn't. He does unlawful actions for the sake of good, but he is always the good guy. Regardless of his actions he is the good guy. A true anti-hero would be neutral, a Deadpool or Spawn. An true anti-hero is in it for themselves but has good tendencies.
Punisher isn't neutral? He's hated by MOST OF THE GOOD-GUYS.
What does the thoughts of others have to do with his morality?
Using that argument Judge Dredd is a full on boy scout because the judges think he is the best at what he does. What you are saying is that Judge Joe Dredd A FACIST is morally on par with Superman because the perceived good guys in that universe admire him.
I wasn't talking about his morality, You said that a true-anti-hero should be neutral, Punisher is hated by most of the superhero community leaving him a lonar a.k.a. neutral
Deadpool.Nothing he does really matters so in that case he can do what he wants.The writers can't really be limited with ideas because they can do pretty much anything with him.
A person's social standing has nothing to do with their place on that scale.
It's not their soical standing. Punisher is hated by most of the superhero community, The type of people he would be allies with aren't making him an Anti-Hero. Social standing does matter because if the people don't see you as a hero then you're not
Hero-Good Guy
Anti-Hero-Not So Good Guy
Neutral-Basically a by-stander, Can go in the Anti-Hero category
@Jnr6Lil: You are simplifying morality to the levels you explain to children.
You don't understand moral neutrality and simply you are not worth the time or effort to argue with. Go and post how Starfire isn't a piece of meat because men are treated like that too.
We wonder why Comics are still seen as childish with that kind of thought flowing through the fan-base.
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