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#1 Posted by paulson3lt (570 posts) - - Show Bio

In hand to hand combat and or weapons (No firearms or eye beams). By skilled I mean using their abilities within the concept of a martial arts. Although Spiderman is an incredible fighter I would say people like him do not make the cut makes the cut because of a lack of formal training. Someone like Blade however, although not the best within martial arts, due to his abilities would allow him to make the cut.

In the Marvel universe I would say Wolverine.

In DC universe I would have to go with Lady Shiva (Batman being a close second)

#2 Edited by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion the five best fighters in the Marvel U looks like this (No order)

Captain America

Wolverine

Black Panther

Daredevil

Iron Fist

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#3 Edited by Cgoodness (3942 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist or Shang Chi marvel

Lady Shiva DC

#4 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

These ARE the top 5 hand-to-hand fighters in Marvel...

Captain America

Black Panther

Daredevil

Iron Fist

Taskmaster

#5 Posted by MisterWhisper (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

DC: Karate Kid >>>>>>>> Midnighter (if he counts)>Zealot/Richard Dagon

Marvel: Well that is a lot closer than in DC... lots of people come to mind.

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan:

Eh, Taskmaster jobs way too much to make it into my top 5.

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#7 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper: Was going to say... "How come no one mentioned Karate Kid yet?"

Good eye!

#8 Posted by Yokergeist (12355 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke and Nightwing for DC

#9 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion the five best fighters in the Marvel U looks like this (No order)

Captain America

Wolverine

Black Panther

Daredevil

Iron Fist

I definitely think cap belongs at the top of that list, but I wouldn't put Wolvie on the list of the best fighters in the Marvel U. Sure, he knows plenty of martial arts, but he hardly ever uses that skill. Unless you have the scans to prove otherwise?

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#10 Posted by paulson3lt (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Also is Taskmaster himself actually skilled at fighting? I though he copies an opponents fighting style.

#11 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

Prometheus for DC is also formidable.

#12 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

In hand to hand combat and or weapons (No firearms or eye beams). By skilled I mean using their abilities within the concept of a martial arts. Although Spiderman is an incredible fighter I would say people like him do not make the cut makes the cut because of a lack of formal training. Someone like Blade however, although not the best within martial arts, due to his abilities would allow him to make the cut.

In the Marvel universe I would say Wolverine.

In DC universe I would have to go with Lady Shiva (Batman being a close second)

Have you ever heard of the Way of the Spider? Chang Chi and Madame Web trained him and helped him develop his one martial arts style to best suit his powers.

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#13 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie:

The idea that Wolverine doesn't use his skill is a myth. He has beaten or stalemated Captain America, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Shang Chi, Taskmaster, Mister X, Daken, and many more of the Marvel U's best fighters using his pure H2H skill.

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#14 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

iron fist

black panther

gamora

shang-chi

deadpool

#15 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

Seriously, though. Thanks for clearing that up. I rushed into an argument without knowing my facts first.

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#16 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie:

Lol, no prob man. A lot of people who don't know that much about Wolverine seem to assume he's just his healing factor and claws. Dude has got mad skills. LOL.

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#17 Posted by paulson3lt (570 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie: Honestly I have not. I thought it was recognized that spidey has little formal training and relies on his abilities. I'm going to look into that

#18 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion: DC's top 5

  1. Karate Kid
  2. Batman
  3. Lady Shiva
  4. Richard Dragon
  5. Deathstroke

No particular order. They all come pretty damn close.

Honourable mentions, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Prometheus, Constantine Drakon, and Cassandra Cain.

#19 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@battle_forum_junkie:

Lol, no prob man. A lot of people who don't know that much about Wolverine seem to assume he's just his healing factor and claws. Dude has got mad skills. LOL.

Alright. I think Logan just moved up a few spots on my favorites list. :)

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#20 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie: Honestly I have not. I thought it was recognized that spidey has little formal training and relies on his abilities. I'm going to look into that

You should, it's pretty awesome. Hope I helped. :)

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#21 Posted by tensor (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

Karate kid owns them all

#22 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1171 posts) - - Show Bio

I have literally never seen anything that has suggested Shiva is superior to Batman....I don't know why so many people make this claim.

My DC top 5 are..

1. Karate Kid

2. Batman

3. Prometheus

4. Deathstroke

5. Wonder Woman/Nightwing

*Honorable mention to Cassandra Cain

@supernategames said:

Deathstroke and Nightwing for DC

You actually think Nightwing is superior to Bruce?

#23 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion: DC's top 5

  1. Karate Kid
  2. Batman
  3. Lady Shiva
  4. Richard Dragon
  5. Deathstroke

No particular order. They all come pretty damn close.

Honourable mentions, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Prometheus, Constantine Drakon, and Cassandra Cain.

Good list, but I'm not sure if Stroke should be in the top 5. I remember a scan I saw where he beat Batman (but was severely injured and was limping), and he mentioned how he wouldn't want to take Bruce on without his enhanced physicals. I think while Slade is an extremely skilled fighter, some of his wins can be accounted to his enhanced physicals. I think he should make the top 10, but not the top 5.

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#24 Edited by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1979 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I love how you show how underrated Wolverine is in some of his aspects and how he has so much more than slice slice slice *drink some beer* dice dice dice.

#26 Edited by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I could live with that. What about Prometheus?

#28 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Hmmm. I think he and Slade would share the sixth and seventh spots. I'm leaning towards Stroke though for sixth.

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#29 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Hmmm. I think he and Slade would share the sixth and seventh spots. I'm leaning towards Stroke though for sixth.

I don't know. People say Prometheus would give Cassy Cain a wrecking.

#30 Edited by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I don't know if I would put Wolverine in the same league with Cap, Panther, DD, or even Iron Fist. He's basically just a blitzer and slasher. He never seems to display mastery of h2h combat in his brawls, despite his advanced training.

That "No claws/no fist" fight with Iron Fist would be one exception, but Iron Fist has beaten Wolverine many more times.

#32 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan:

There are many more instances where Wolverine has relied on his mastery of all the world's fighting styles (including 22 forms of kung fu). He's done it when he's beaten or stalemated Captain America, Daredevil, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Deadpool, Daken, Mister X, and many others. I think the problem is that Wolverine's feral fighting style looks unskilled because he goes in so aggressively and looks unskilled to most regular people, but is highly skilled and effective at the end of the day.

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#33 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1979 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan:

There are many more instances where Wolverine has relied on his mastery of all the world's fighting styles (including 22 forms of kung fu). He's done it when he's beaten or stalemated Captain America, Daredevil, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Deadpool, Daken, Mister X, and many others. I think the problem is that Wolverine's feral fighting style looks unskilled because he goes in so aggressively and looks unskilled to most regular people, but is highly skilled and effective at the end of the day.

Wolverine usually lets an unbreakable skeleton and healing factor do all the work. I'd probably put Wolverine near Winter Soldier level in terms of H2H chops. Cap, Panther, Iron Fist and Daredevil are trademark martial artists, whereas Wolverine is usually just a brawler. Taskmaster is still my #5. He is a better martial artist and has better feats. And yes, he is a jobber, lol.

#35 Edited by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@bamapecan:

There are many more instances where Wolverine has relied on his mastery of all the world's fighting styles (including 22 forms of kung fu). He's done it when he's beaten or stalemated Captain America, Daredevil, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Deadpool, Daken, Mister X, and many others. I think the problem is that Wolverine's feral fighting style looks unskilled because he goes in so aggressively and looks unskilled to most regular people, but is highly skilled and effective at the end of the day.

Wolverine usually lets an unbreakable skeleton and healing factor do all the work. I'd probably put Wolverine near Winter Soldier level in terms of H2H chops. Cap, Panther, Iron Fist and Daredevil are trademark martial artists, whereas Wolverine is usually just a brawler. Taskmaster is still my #5. He is a better martial artist and has better feats. And yes, he is a jobber, lol.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. Wolverine's feats put him as one of the elite of elite among Marvel's fighters really.

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#36 Posted by MarlboroMan (1572 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@bamapecan:

There are many more instances where Wolverine has relied on his mastery of all the world's fighting styles (including 22 forms of kung fu). He's done it when he's beaten or stalemated Captain America, Daredevil, Black Panther, Shang Chi, Deadpool, Daken, Mister X, and many others. I think the problem is that Wolverine's feral fighting style looks unskilled because he goes in so aggressively and looks unskilled to most regular people, but is highly skilled and effective at the end of the day.

Wolverine usually lets an unbreakable skeleton and healing factor do all the work. I'd probably put Wolverine near Winter Soldier level in terms of H2H chops. Cap, Panther, Iron Fist and Daredevil are trademark martial artists, whereas Wolverine is usually just a brawler. Taskmaster is still my #5. He is a better martial artist and has better feats. And yes, he is a jobber, lol.


I think you are underestimating both Winter Soldier and Wolverine. Winter Soldier is definitely in the league with the guys you said above and Wolverine is so much more than just a brawler he teached all the X-Men their H2H skills.Even his h2h students Cyclops and Storm are in the elite league of marvel hand to hand fighters.

#37 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you are underestimating both Winter Soldier and Wolverine. Winter Soldier is definitely in the league with the guys you said above and Wolverine is so much more than just a brawler he teached all the X-Men their H2H skills.Even his h2h students Cyclops and Storm are in the elite league of marvel hand to hand fighters.

1. "In the league with those guys" is debatable. They are absolutely top tier...but top 5? Wolverine may have a case but not Winter Soldier. There's really only spot to debate in the top 5, because Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, and Iron Fist are the 4 best martial artists on Earth (I think, personally, in that order). 5th could go to Shang Chi, Taskmaster, or maybe even Wolvie. Right below them are people like Bucky, Black Widow, Punisher, Mystique, Red Skull, Elektra, and the like.

2. Cyclops and Storm....if by "elite league" you mean like a top 30.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. Wolverine's feats put him as one of the elite of elite among Marvel's fighters really.

Do we have to? I'd rather fight and argue about it endlessly rather than take the mature road. Lol, but seriously...you think Wolverine beats out both Taskmaster AND Shang Chi? I'm talking about feats on paper. It goes without saying that Wolvie is one of the best fighters in Marvel...but so is the Thing. "Fighter" is a broad category, "martial artist" is narrower, and most of what everyone sees out of a Wolverine fight is blitz-and-slash attacks with some acrobatics here and there. Sure, his extensive training history is something to consider, but the only time I've seen that utilized is that practice spar with Iron Fist.

#38 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan: Wolverine actually made quick work of Shang Chi in 3 pages once. I have the scans if you want.

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#39 Posted by PowerHerc (81712 posts) - - Show Bio

Karate Kid.

#40 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan: Wolverine actually made quick work of Shang Chi in 3 pages once. I have the scans if you want.

Wolverine:First Class 9? Because that's not how I remembered it...

#41 Posted by Pokeysteve (8119 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand the OP. In straight martial arts prowess I don't think a lot of characters mentioned here should even be viable because of their powers. How good would Daredevil be if he couldn't hear and feel everything around him? How good would Cap be if he was still 90 pounds lol. I'll make a list for the hell of it I guess. I left out characters with enhancements that effect a fight. I also omitted characters with only a handful of appearances/feats such as White Canary whom Black Canary was barely able to even land a hit on, Silver Monkey, and Karate Kid.

  1. Cass Cain
  2. Shiva
  3. Bruce
  4. Connor Hawke/Black Canary
  5. Connor Hawke/Black Canary

Honorable mentions : David Cain, Nightwing, Bane, and Artemis.

#42 Posted by Friorey (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman One Million

#43 Posted by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@bamapecan: Wolverine actually made quick work of Shang Chi in 3 pages once. I have the scans if you want.

Wolverine:First Class 9? Because that's not how I remembered it...

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#44 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10441 posts) - - Show Bio

...Spiderman does have formal training.

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#45 Posted by Bamapecan (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@bamapecan said:

@wolverine08 said:

@bamapecan: Wolverine actually made quick work of Shang Chi in 3 pages once. I have the scans if you want.

Wolverine:First Class 9? Because that's not how I remembered it...

Exactly my point. I do believe this is Bone Claw Wolverine..?? If so, this isn't martial artist vs martial artist. This is an unarmed martial artist vs a certain mutant at full potential (strength, speed, senses, healing factor) in a feral frenzy. Granted, Wolvie's "focus and control" rivals a samurai in this feral state...that doesn't mean his skills do. Wolvie physically overpowered him, not matched him in skill. Let me be very clear on something...I referred to Shang Chi as "unarmed" for a reason. In my opinion, none of the top 5 fighters in Marvel could overcome this version of Wolverine without their weapons/shields, mostly due to the fact that they are just humans.

#46 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

In my opinion the five best fighters in the Marvel U looks like this (No order)

Captain America

Wolverine

Black Panther

Daredevil

Iron Fist

I'd replace DD with Shang Chi but otherwise I pretty much agree. I'd put DD in top ten for sure though. Someone mentioned Spider-Man, and while he was trained by the best, and while Spider-Man is really good, and was only getting better, but he still needs more practice and time before he could break top 5.

#47 Edited by Wolverine08 (38980 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I thought about putting Shang Chi in the top five, but while he is revered as one of Marvel's best fighters, he's kind of lacking in feats to completely back it up. DD on the other hand has been able to beat or stalemate most of Marvel's best fighters while being at a physical disadvantage, which led me to give him a nod in the top five.

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#48 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (5966 posts) - - Show Bio

If Batman had no morals Id say him.

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#49 Posted by sync1 (2876 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Karate Kid
  2. Constantine Drakon
  3. Richard Dragon
  4. Lady Shiva
  5. Connor Hawke
  6. Dick Grayson
  7. Batman
  8. Bronze Tiger
  9. Ra's A Gul
  10. Black Canary

That list is not in order, but those are probably the top 10 best martial artists in the world for DC.

#50 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

I can understand that, even though I personally still rate him higher. After all he made a spider-nerd a master martial artist in a few weeks haha. But DD is definitely up there.