#1 Posted by nix_smoke (59 posts) - - Show Bio

if ur gonna punch, isnt it stronger if ur gonna punch in a speed of light?

#2 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman. Flash can't or hasn't throw his hands at light speed from what I've seen. Also last time he did his ultimate punch of a being like superman he didn't hurt superman but his entire arm. It doesn't really matter how fast you are if you weak you won't get much damage done.

#3 Posted by nix_smoke (59 posts) - - Show Bio

gotta point, superman's made of steel

#4 Posted by SeSAW (3677 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman. Flash has just above regular human strength. He can run as fast as he wants and still has trouble knocking down a guy like S Grundy much less knocking him out. 

#5 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

#6 Posted by nix_smoke (59 posts) - - Show Bio

wait if flash can run at lightspeeds, can superman hit him?

#7 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio
nix_smoke said:
"gotta point, superman's made of steel
"
Superman isn't made of steel. He's more durable then steel trust me.
nix_smoke said:
"wait if flash can run at lightspeeds, can superman hit him?
"

Yeah just cause you can go light speeds doesn't mean you can use that speed in a fight. When you blitz someone you don't really have to go so fast but just enough where you can hit then move. People think that if you an go over the speed of light you will some how use light speed in a fight which is impossible. First off it takes a while to reach such speeds, and second off if you go light speed then miss and attack imagine having to have to stop and try again??

#8 Posted by nix_smoke (59 posts) - - Show Bio

i saw in justce league unlimited that flash can go at constant speeds. its his powers u knw

#9 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio
nix_smoke said:
"i saw in justce league unlimited that flash can go at constant speeds. its his powers u knw
"
Damn so you don't even know the real thing. Well one day pick up a comic since you haven't seen the real thing an what you saw was speed force probably. YOU KNOW.
#10 Posted by nix_smoke (59 posts) - - Show Bio
zee crusher said:
"nix_smoke said:
"i saw in justce league unlimited that flash can go at constant speeds. its his powers u knw
"
Damn so you don't even know the real thing. Well one day pick up a comic since you haven't seen the real thing an what you saw was speed force probably. YOU KNOW.
"
thats it the speed force if flash uses that he cant be hit
#11 Posted by King Saturn (224181 posts) - - Show Bio
Superman should have a harder punch than The Flash
Online
#12 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the speed force protects speedsters in the DCU, from damaging themselves and the environment due to the effects of the velocities?

Anyway, this is another breakdown of physics in DCU.  If the flash were traveling at speeds>speed of light, his impact would obliterate sups on a sub-atomic level (himself as well, if not for the speed force).

#13 Posted by F-Man (37 posts) - - Show Bio
nix_smoke said:
"wait if flash can run at lightspeeds, can superman hit him?
"
Superman probably can't hit flash in light speed but remember that flash would be pulled out of reality if he ever did that again. We don't want that to happen, do we? Superman would hit harder. He doesn't have light speed (exept in space) but he can go Mach 10 speed and have Super Strength.
#14 Posted by danhimself (22541 posts) - - Show Bio
nix_smoke said:
"wait if flash can run at lightspeeds, can superman hit him?
"
i don't think this is about them hitting each other...it's who has the strongest punch...if that's the case then flash's punching strength probably isn't as strong as a peak human so it doesn't matter how fast he's running he's only going to hit as hard as his body can handle...superman pretty much destroys anything if he hits as hard as he can
#15 Edited by BruteForce91 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman hits way harder than Flash. Speed is only one factor when it comes to power. Superman is bigger and far stronger and tougher than Flash, and Superman is also very fast, with all of that combined Superman punches a lot harder than Flash. And, even if Flash could hit harder, Superman would still hit hard have super durability, so Superman could still hit Flash a lot harder than Flash can hit him. It doesn't matter if you can hit harder than your opponent, but if you can hit your opponent harder than he can hit you.

#16 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3681 posts) - - Show Bio

Mass x Acceleration = Force, ik this is going to confuse the majority of brute fans on the battle forums.

#17 Posted by GhostRavage (8955 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash once used an IMP on White Martian... he survived. Superman once use an IMP on a Shadowmoon... Nothing left but little pieces of rock. I guess Superman hits harder but Flash can potentially hit harder than Sups if we go for pure physics.

#18 Posted by Funsiized (3716 posts) - - Show Bio

Physics dictates, that if flash goes fast enough, then he can hit harder.

#19 Posted by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone should follow this link about common strength and speed misconceptions, it will show how Flash can punch harder then just about the entire comic universe. SPEED/STRENGTH

Also, here's a scan that shows Wonder Woman saying Zoom's punches hurt more then Superman's because he can run light speed, not because of his strength.

#20 Posted by Dredeuced (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Superman once punched the Anti Monitor and did nothing.

Flash once punched the antimonitor and he exploded.

#21 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

his punches can sting more, but if superman hit her she wont be conscious to feel it, flash can hit superman a million times and he might knock him around some but the worst he will get is a bloody nose, Superman hits flash on the other hand with a really good one and its lights out.

#22 Edited by MadnessFall (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@nix_smoke said:

gotta point, superman's made of steel

Are you being serious here?I know you made this comment like in the Dino era but how in the hell is your comment suppose to make any sense at all?

Flash Punch > Superman Punch (unless the speed is not in the math).

If flash punch superman,superman would get hurt.

#23 Posted by KingAres109 (1259 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Any proof from the comics saying this and just your opinion??

#24 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Superman once punched the Anti Monitor and did nothing.

Flash once punched the antimonitor and he exploded.

No he didn't, that's a lie. Flash used his speed to break up his armor. He was able to draw interference because the whole DC Universe excuse me DC Multiverse was battling the AM. Even when he did that it still didn't stop the anti monitor.

#25 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash punched a martian into the orbit, and Superman punched at least two other guys into the orbit, as well as punching Wonder Woman from space into Earth.

I guess their punch have the same magnitude. (Unless when you count Superman create a planetary-wide canyon on the Moon)

#26 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^ lol, honestly this should not even be a question

#27 Edited by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity Mass Punch vs Superman's punch.

#28 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruteforce91: Actually, the approximate force of a contact blow is mass * velocity*velocity, or m(v^2), so speed matters twice as much as mass (strength), which is derived from the Force equations for collisions.

If that doesn't work for you, just looking at the actual impulse (the change in momentum, and what actually does damage in a punch) of a hit is : dP(change in momentum) = Fnet * dT(change in time).

once broken down, it becomes m(vf - vi) = Fnet*dT , assuming they start from a speed of 0 (standing still), the equation if m*vf = Fnet*dT, which implies that you can create the same total momentum inverse speed and mass.

i.e. If flash is faster than superman proportionally to how much more massive superman is to flash, they will generate the same total momentum.

Basically, Flash, bare minimum, hits just as hard, if no harder.

#29 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

Imp was never able to do what the scan above showed, and that's just superman getting started

#30 Posted by GhostRavage (8955 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity Mass Punch vs Superman's punch.

Exactly...

#31 Edited by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruteforce91: Actually, the approximate force of a contact blow is mass * velocity*velocity, or m(v^2), so speed matters twice as much as mass (strength), which is derived from the Force equations for collisions.

If that doesn't work for you, just looking at the actual impulse (the change in momentum, and what actually does damage in a punch) of a hit is : dP(change in momentum) = Fnet * dT(change in time).

once broken down, it becomes m(vf - vi) = Fnet*dT , assuming they start from a speed of 0 (standing still), the equation if m*vf = Fnet*dT, which implies that you can create the same total momentum inverse speed and mass.

i.e. If flash is faster than superman proportionally to how much more massive superman is to flash, they will generate the same total momentum.

Basically, Flash, bare minimum, hits just as hard, if no harder.

Still, I don't think velocity and mass alone is capable of explaining the violation of the conservation of energy, obviously something the mass of the fist accelerated to light speed aren't enough to causes damage this large (scan below).

Flash delivers Infinity Mass Punch only when he slows himself down to light speed, the reason? Scientists are still not sure what happens to the mass when it went beyond light speed.

#32 Posted by Verotikryptonite (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@tevnoba said:

I thought the speed force protects speedsters in the DCU, from damaging themselves and the environment due to the effects of the velocities?

Anyway, this is another breakdown of physics in DCU. If the flash were traveling at speeds>speed of light, his impact would obliterate sups on a sub-atomic level (himself as well, if not for the speed force).

This. If any object with mass is moving at the speed of light, it's dragging infinite mass behind it. If that mass makes contact with another object it would create a big bang which would wipe out the universe. The ultimate suicide bomber

#33 Edited by tparks (5000 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

his punches can sting more, but if superman hit her she wont be conscious to feel it, flash can hit superman a million times and he might knock him around some but the worst he will get is a bloody nose, Superman hits flash on the other hand with a really good one and its lights out.

That's more of a durability feat between the two characters. I'm making my comment based on the concept of force. Mass x Velocity= Force.

Strength has nothing to do with how hard a punch hits. Even if we assume that Superman can punch at the same velocity as flash, the only reason it would hit harder is because Superman's fist has more mass moving at the same velocity as Flash. Superman's fist is not that much bigger then Flashes, or at least not enough to make a significant difference as far as mass goes. Superman's strength does not factor into how hard he is hitting. This is all assuming that Superman can punch at the same velocity as the Flash, which I don't agree with, because of Flash having the Speed Force. At the very best, Superman can hit with slightly less force as the flash.

This is all based on physics, in the comic world, Superman may be able to hit harder then the Flash because it's not REAL. lol.

#34 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

A paper bullet going light speed is not going to do as much damage as a copper bullet of the same size going 1/3 the speed of light. And there are other factors that weigh in as to why superman can hit harder.

#35 Posted by Cybrilious4 (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously Superman, that guy at least has good strength feats and durability. Proving that your screw if your getting punched by Supes over Flash

#36 Edited by ferventking (259 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruteforce91:

That's not how striking power works. You want strength and durability for two thing. One, to prevent damage to your own body from punching and impacting something very hard. Two, so you can accelerate your fist fast enough to do damage. Both of which mean jack squat since Speed Force protects Flash from damage that would have been sustained from his speed, and Flash punches faster in the first place. Superman is, what, twice, maybe three times Flash's mass? So Flash would only have to be moving less than twice as fast to generate a similar punch.

@moonman78

No, a fleck of paper going at the speed of light would have infinite mass behind it, and would do way more damage than a copper bullet going at c/3.

#37 Posted by eternalnature (364 posts) - - Show Bio

Think of it this way what does more damage a bullet or a arrow?

#38 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash could hit harder. Flash's durability is spotty though.....

THE THREE LAWS OF MOTION

The Three Laws of Motion part 1:

1. Mass is synonymous with inertia or momentum, an object's resistance to movement in a state of excitement or rest which also the same as energy.

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

2. Force is equal to an objects mass times it's acceleration, F= M x A

Force is the acceleration of mass. Either you have big mass and little acceleration, or a relatively small mass and huge acceleration.

The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

3. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

For example: just because a person is super strong doesn't mean the object they grab or the platform they stand and move on is as strong as them

The Three Laws of Motion part 2: Applied to Superhumans

Whether its lifting something or striking something, you're doing the same motion, which is thrusting your arms.

The difference between a punch and a lift is this....

The force of a punch is more concentrated, focused just between the index and middle finger.

The concentration of force gives the punch more destructive power. Lifting lacks in destructive ability because it doesn't focus all power on a single point.

And so...

Yes, highly athletic people are fast.

Weight lifters actually can hit just as hard as martial artist, as long as they strike the way a martial artist does (by focusing their power).

Force is the acceleration of mass. Muscle and bone density is there in order to keep a person from injuring themselves with the force they put out.

Super-Speed + Super-Durability= Super Strength character

Either you have big mass and little acceleration, or a relatively small mass and huge acceleration.

Comicbook "powerhouses" are literally powerhouses. They're bodies are basically living nuclear weapons.

And "nuclear power" is this: Rupturing atoms at their core = gamma rays= Light-speed or faster than light-speed travel = The theory of relativity( E= mc²)

And the term "acceleration" is used within "F=ma" formula because it assumes that objects are not moving at the same velocity all the time, constantly.

As its known, the term acceleration is used to describe the rate of change in a objects rate of motion (rate of motion is known as speed)

The true and technical formula for Force is this: Force= Mass x Velocity(better known as "Kinetic Energy= 1/2 x an object's Mass x the Velocity")http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/energy/u5l1c.cfm

We just have remember that even though velocity, and objects rate of motion, is what determines force, acceleration is always involved because objects never move at the same velocity all the time, constantly.

A punches' velocity reaches it peak when its bent and almost but not fully extended. Before it reaches that point its quickly climbing in speed and we call that "acceleration". The higher the speed you reach in short amount of time, the more acceleration you will have. With speed comes acceleration. With speed comes force.

Superhuman bodies are going to be more dense, denser than a normal human body, and which allows it to handle the pressures it puts on itself as it goes against the force of other objects, able to withstand their own rebounding force or forces that are akin to theirs. As we know Hulk, body is far denser than a normal human's.

It's the same on a human level. When you work-out constantly enough your muscles thicken. The reason muscles thicken when you workout is so they can exert more energy without being torn up in the process. The body is adjusting to the constant and abnormal energy output of the muscles by making them tougher to keep them from getting torn up.

#39 Posted by TheTrollDance (178 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta love how every battle thread involving Flash eventually evolves into a Physics geeks get-together.

#40 Posted by gav (721 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL, what is with all the real world physics in a COMIC world discussion?!?!? Physics is routinely broken in comics (e.g. trillions of times the speed of light)!

The only thing that should be used is scans of Superman punching and scans of Flash punching. Everything else is, to quote GWB, "fuzzy math."

#41 Posted by CharlieJade (422 posts) - - Show Bio

SUPERMAN IS FASTER THAN FLASH

Wally is not much faster than Superman

what Wally has is higher reflexes than Superman, he can react quicker throwing hundreds of punches but Wally's straight line speed is slower

In a race from country to country, planet to planet Wally would lose to Superman

However up close and personal, Superman would have to shrug off a blitz of hundreds of blows because Wally's reflexes are so much higher

I still believe Superman wins

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

Team stomps

Most people on this Vine will say, it's the other way around.

One punch and Flash will end up in orbit.

@spawn_obsessed

said:

"

This is a fight not a race"

exactly!

speed can only get you so far in battles

Flash can only annoy Superman, Darkseid, Surfer etc like a bee buzzing around a human annoying him

eventually Flash gets swatted

some stupid eco activist posted a ut youtube video about hunting killings vs ivory on youtube

it showed chained elephants going crazy and killing their owner

the video is disturbing to watch but it gives you a sense in the difference of power

people running around an elephant hitting it with things can only annoy the beast

Once the elephant tags the person they are dead

This is the difference in power - the same for Flash vs Superman

Flash can only annoy Superman

that's all

.

.

.

.

Superman vs Flash is a long fight

Flash is fast but Supes has durability to soak a lot from Flash

Ranked 1-7 here's how I rank Flash in K4tzm4n's thread

The Flash

Intelligence: 4-

Strength: 3

Speed: 7-

Damage Soak: 4-

Telekenesis Psionics - 1

Agility - 3

Energy Projection - 2

Fighting Ability- 3

Doing a ranking system in the DC thread,

that's how I would rank Flash out of seven

They would be wrong. >_>

Flash dies

#42 Posted by CharlieJade (422 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman flicks the Flash?

If a flick did that I doubt he could take a punch.

#43 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@charliejade:

  1. He was barely injured.
  2. That's New-52 Barry. This thread is obviously about Pre-52 Wally
  3. The thread isn't about who can take a punch.
#45 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternalnature:

When it comes to that it just depends on the type of wound, but, an arrow is capable of doing more damage than a bullet unless its a hollow point which is different

#46 Posted by dondave (37380 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally

#47 Posted by dondave (37380 posts) - - Show Bio

SUPERMAN IS FASTER THAN FLASH

Wally is not much faster than Superman

what Wally has is higher reflexes than Superman, he can react quicker throwing hundreds of punches but Wally's straight line speed is slower

In a race from country to country, planet to planet Wally would lose to Superman

However up close and personal, Superman would have to shrug off a blitz of hundreds of blows because Wally's reflexes are so much higher

Wally is much faster than Superman, by a large margin. How can you even think that Superman has better straight line speed that Wally, a being who has gone multiple time of speed of light, even Pre-52 Barry Allen is faster than Superman and he's slower than Wally. Also your scan of Barry is the New 52 is not relevant. He was not even serious when he was fighting Superman. He has already shown in his series that he has Femtosecond reaction times and superman hasn't even shown in the New 52 whether he has microsecond reaction time.

#48 Posted by JediXMan (30597 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash hits harder.

Moderator
#49 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@charliejade:

This scan should prove what person hits harder, superman did something standing still that flash could never do while moving, no matter how fast

#50 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78:

It seems to me that you just don't like Flash.