You know, if you read the early Kirby/Stan Lee days of X-men, Xavier was kind of a douche...not saying he always is...that just crossed my mind when I saw this thread
You know, if you read the early Kirby/Stan Lee days of X-men, Xavier was kind of a douche...not saying he always is...that just crossed my mind when I saw this thread
This times one hundred.
One of my favorite early issues, Xavier paints a piece of paper? To look like rope? So when Beast goes through his obstacle course, and has to clear a huge gap? Hank will look at the rope, and naturally assume, since there is no, no other way he can jump straight across, and it being an obstacle course, with physical challenges, that he has to jump on the rope to swing across. Except no, Xavier painted paper to look like rope. Beast jumped, at rope, only for it to rip easily and fall into the pit, failing his challenge. and then Xavier mocked him for failing, even though there was no other way Beast could have actually jumped across lol
@FadeToBlackBolt: And he's currently training a Jean Grey look a like to be the new host of the Phoenix Force, a destructive cosmic entity that feeds off stars and destroys planets at a whim because there's a chance the Mutant Race will be reborn. Seems pretty douchy to me to threaten the entire planet for the off chance of the rebirth of the mutant race.
@FadeToBlackBolt: And he's currently training a Jean Grey look a like to be the new host of the Phoenix Force, a destructive cosmic entity that feeds off stars and destroys planets at a whim because there's a chance the Mutant Race will be reborn. Seems pretty douchy to me to threaten the entire planet for the off chance of the rebirth of the mutant race.
I find that to be more desperate than douchy. It would be douchy if he did that, but was in your face about it.
"LOL Hey Wolverine! Lookitme and what I'M doing!!!"- douchy Cyclops "What else would you have me do?! It's either this or nothing, and if it'll give our race a chance to survive, I'm going to damn well take it!"- not douchy Cyclops
@Gambit1024: Perhaps it is more desparate than douchy but it's still massively stupid to threaten 7 billion lives just to restart the mutant race. I find that to be an unacceptable risk to take.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Like you I dislike Bendis and Aaron's writing but it's still going to have repurcussions in the future. Scott's finally crossed the line and not many people are going to like him for what he's done. I don't like this aggressive version of Cyclops. I don't think it's a patch on the original version and he's becoming more and more like the new Magneto each month.
@Gambit1024: Perhaps it is more desparate than douchy but it's still massively stupid to threaten 7 billion lives just to restart the mutant race. I find that to be an unacceptable risk to take.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Like you I dislike Bendis and Aaron's writing but it's still going to have repurcussions in the future. Scott's finally crossed the line and not many people are going to like him for what he's done. I don't like this aggressive version of Cyclops. I don't think it's a patch on the original version and he's becoming more and more like the new Magneto each month.
But when a character does something so outrageously ridiculous and affronting to themselves, purely in order to satisfy writer's idiocy, it's not the character's fault. It's different if trying to mould super-weapons was something he's been doing for 10 years. It's not. Poor writing along with a complete disregard for consistency and canon have led to a character bearing Scott Summers' name and that alone. Calling Cyclops a douchebag is like saying that Superman hates Batman because of For Tomorrow. One writer and one story arc does not define a character, particularly when it's written by people who have no comprehension of said character.
@spiderbat87: LMAO. Hank Pm of any universe is awesome. Even if he is a douchebag in the Ultimates, lmao.
@Lvenger: Oh, I agree it's stupid, but not douchy. Honestly though, the current Cyclops's attitude is the product of horrible writing. The last time Cyclops was ever written correctly, imo, was when Morrison was writing New X-Men. Sure, Scott made some poor choices there (cheating on the most powerful force in the universe), but at least he had a credible excuse. What he's doing now isn't only moronic, but he has no idea just how bad things could get if he screws up. There is no excuse for that kind of action, no matter how desperate you are.
@Gambit1024: Perhaps it is more desparate than douchy but it's still massively stupid to threaten 7 billion lives just to restart the mutant race. I find that to be an unacceptable risk to take.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Like you I dislike Bendis and Aaron's writing but it's still going to have repurcussions in the future. Scott's finally crossed the line and not many people are going to like him for what he's done. I don't like this aggressive version of Cyclops. I don't think it's a patch on the original version and he's becoming more and more like the new Magneto each month.
But when a character does something so outrageously ridiculous and affronting to themselves, purely in order to satisfy writer's idiocy, it's not the character's fault. It's different if trying to mould super-weapons was something he's been doing for 10 years. It's not. Poor writing along with a complete disregard for consistency and canon have led to a character bearing Scott Summers' name and that alone. Calling Cyclops a douchebag is like saying that Superman hates Batman because of For Tomorrow. One writer and one story arc does not define a character, particularly when it's written by people who have no comprehension of said character.
You've made a lot of good points here. I agree it has been in recent story arcs that poor writing and lack of understanding of the character means that Cyclops is not treated as he should be. It's because of these recent stories that Cyclops has been labelled a douchebag by many people. Perhaps he's not a douchebag as I said but I still don't like his character as it currently is. One more question if I may. You've made this great argument about how out of canon treatment of characters has resulted in them being messed up but you also posted this image on the previous page defending Cyclops. Do you like the new interpretation of Cyclops or not?
@Gambit1024: Totally agree. I've only ever read two issues of Morrison's run on the X-Men. Perhaps I should look into it. Anyway as I said in my previous post, I agree with what FadetoBlackBolt said and I agree with what you've said as well. The writers of X-Men seem to have removed Scott's common sense and replaced it with Scott thinking it's a good idea to encourage the Phoenix Force to come to Earth for Hope to control. And Cable is supporting that idea? He cares about Hope like she's his own daughter, how can he want the Phoenix force to take control of her given its past record?
@Gambit1024: Perhaps it is more desparate than douchy but it's still massively stupid to threaten 7 billion lives just to restart the mutant race. I find that to be an unacceptable risk to take.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Like you I dislike Bendis and Aaron's writing but it's still going to have repurcussions in the future. Scott's finally crossed the line and not many people are going to like him for what he's done. I don't like this aggressive version of Cyclops. I don't think it's a patch on the original version and he's becoming more and more like the new Magneto each month.
But when a character does something so outrageously ridiculous and affronting to themselves, purely in order to satisfy writer's idiocy, it's not the character's fault. It's different if trying to mould super-weapons was something he's been doing for 10 years. It's not. Poor writing along with a complete disregard for consistency and canon have led to a character bearing Scott Summers' name and that alone. Calling Cyclops a douchebag is like saying that Superman hates Batman because of For Tomorrow. One writer and one story arc does not define a character, particularly when it's written by people who have no comprehension of said character.
You've made a lot of good points here. I agree it has been in recent story arcs that poor writing and lack of understanding of the character means that Cyclops is not treated as he should be. It's because of these recent stories that Cyclops has been labelled a douchebag by many people. Perhaps he's not a douchebag as I said but I still don't like his character as it currently is. One more question if I may. You've made this great argument about how out of canon treatment of characters has resulted in them being messed up but you also posted this image. Do you like the new interpretation of Cyclops or not?
No. The reason I made that image was that I originally had hoped that Marvel would show how Cyke was dealing with the actions he's made. We haven't got that, a proper introspective moment for Cyclops. There is no way that Cyclops would just shrug off Kurt's death the way he did in the comics. That was simply wrong. By all rights, it should be considered non-canon. If Iron Man flew the Surfer's board in an issue with no explanation whatsoever, the readers would be out for blood at the incomprehensibleness of it. Cyke's (lack of accurate) characterisation is just like this. It's insane, it makes no sense, and it's come out of nowhere. Some of his actions are justified, how he has been written is not.
I gave up around Siege when it became apparent that Marvel had no interest in making this a defining character arc for Scott, but rather just using him as a scapegoat for more Wolverine-fanwank and terrible events.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Just out of curiosity what X book do you currently hate the least?
X-Factor is worth reading, but it's part of the X-Franchise, so you have to ask if it's really worth it lol
@X35 said:
I don't care what the fanboys say, Cyclops is a horrible person.
For someone who likes Hank Pym, I find it hard to believe that you judge a character based on a single moment that was editorially mandated in order to prevent progress.
@FadeToBlackBolt: The difference is Hank has moved on from hitting Jan, he's learnt his lesson and has redeemed himself from it countless times.
Scott left his wife and kid for purely selfish reasons and is just like "WHATEVER". He's never had his comeuppance for abandoning them and Marvel had the nerve to make Maddie the villain of the piece ¬_¬
@FadeToBlackBolt: Poor writing should be considered non canon as much as Iron Man flying Silver Surfer's board around, I can't argue with you there. I never realised that there wasn't anything detailing Cyclops' reaction to Kurt's death. Even Wolverine mourned Kurt's death and he and Kurt didn't always get along. I guess Marvel really don't care about one of the founding members of the X-Men and one of the earliest and most successful Marvel characters. A real pity.
@Gambit1024: Totally agree. I've only ever read two issues of Morrison's run on the X-Men. Perhaps I should look into it. Anyway as I said in my previous post, I agree with what FadetoBlackBolt said and I agree with what you've said as well. The writers of X-Men seem to have removed Scott's common sense and replaced it with Scott thinking it's a good idea to encourage the Phoenix Force to come to Earth for Hope to control. And Cable is supporting that idea? He cares about Hope like she's his own daughter, how can he want the Phoenix force to take control of her given its past record?
Dude, definitely look into it. The art kind of sucks at first, but it gets much better after the first arc.
I think Cable's been written as pretty damn noble as of late, but his thing has been all about choice-making. I mean, he wants the best for Hope, but at the same time, he wants her to make her own decisions. That's something Cable was never able to do as a child, so I guess I respect him in that regard. If Hope wants to host the Phoenix, let her do it. All Cable can do is support her, like the father-figure he is. Still, I haven't read AvX or any of its tie-ins (and i don't plan to), so there could've been some stuff that went down there that I'm unaware of regarding Cable and his return.
@FadeToBlackBolt: The difference is Hank has moved on from hitting Jan, he's learnt his lesson and has redeemed himself from it countless times.
Scott left his wife and kid for purely selfish reasons and is just like "WHATEVER". He's never had his comeuppance for abandoning them and Marvel had the nerve to make Maddie the villain of the piece ¬_¬
I can explain the backstory behind all of that if you like, but it's going to sound like I'm preaching Cyclops as an Angel, which he isn't, of course. But there is a lot more to it than that scan and the story's summary imply.
Most of the douchebags seem to be accounted for one I haven't seen yet is The Chief who literally f@#king sentenced some random people to fates worse then death for the mere fun of leading a super-team of freaks. What a douchebag.
@Gambit1024: I will. Thanks for the tip! And good man for not reading any A vs X or the tie ins. I'm getting sick and tired of Marvel putting out event after event each year in order to cash in big style. Enough already Marvel! And regarding Cable, those are some very good points. At least he's being a better parent to Hope than Summers is.
@FadeToBlackBolt: I know the basic idea was Claremont/Shooter/Byrne wanted to bring back Jean Grey purely to make some money and they've all gone on to say they regret doing it and try to pass the blame to someone else...funnily enough i was reading about the origin of X-Factor yesterday.....i just find it despicable that basically you have a character selfishly walk out on a loving family and then gets given a free pass because Maddie became the Goblin Queen.
It's good to know that if i ever meet some guy who marries me just because I remind him of a dead chick and he fathers a child with me and he just storms out and abandons me and lil' Nathan......if I become a demon chick a few years later, he'll be heralded as a hero and the good guy in the story.
@Lvenger: Same. The Marvel events (with the exception of Spider-Island) suck. I'm not sure if you'd call Cyclops a parental figure to her, though. She's more of a soldier to him, just like the rest of the people on Utopia.
@X35: Actually, it was editorially mandated that Cyclops rejoin the X-Men and Jean return, along with Madelyne becoming a villain. The circumstances following were relatively meaningless to Marvel's desired endgame.
No one ever points out that when Cyclops "left", he actually only wanted to visit Jean and see how she was, and Madelyne, who had been berating Scott for months and using passive-aggressive attacks on him, then said that if he did "leave", he wasn't to come back.
"Holy crap, my dead wife came back from the dead. I have to see her, to ask her how" "If you do that, then you're dead to me forever" "Seriously?" "Yes, now go do more things for me as I berate you"
@Gambit1024: I loved Spider-Island. That was when I picked up Amazing Spider-Man again and I don't think I'll be dropping it any time soon. I'm quite looking forward to Ends of the Earth. Slott has been building Doc Ock and the Sinister Six up for a while and now Doc Ock will be enacting his final masterplan before his death. Hopefully 1) Doc Ock will die and stay dead (at least for a while) and 2) Slott will remind us all why Doc Ock can defnitely rival Osborn in terms of being Spider-Man's archnemesis.
Log in to comment