#1 Edited by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Who are the best street level fighters in hand to hand in DC and Marvel?

#2 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

DC:

(no order)

Senseii

Batman

Deathstroke

Bronze Tiger

Cassie Cain

Lady Shiva

Richard Dragon

Black Canary

Ra's Al Ghul

Conner Hawke

Honorable mentions: Bane, Wildcat, Nightwing and Red Hood.

Marvel:

(no order)

Captain America

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Daredevil

Wolverine

Daken

Shang Chi

Taskmaster

Elektra

Deadpool

Honorable mentions: Black Widow, Nick Fury, Blade, Silver Samurai, Cat, Bullseye.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

#3 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2113 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: well uh what he said

#4 Posted by The Stegman (23022 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

DC:

(no order)

Senseii

Batman

Deathstroke

Bronze Tiger

Cassie Cain

Lady Shiva

Richard Dragon

Black Canary

Ra's Al Ghul

Conner Hawke

Honorable mentions: Bane, Wildcat, Nightwing and Red Hood.

Marvel:

(no order)

Captain America

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Daredevil

Wolverine

Daken

Shang Chi

Taskmaster

Elektra

Deadpool

Honorable mentions: Black Widow, Nick Fury, Blade, Silver Samurai, Cat.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

In a nutshell.

#5 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

DC:

(no order)

Senseii

Batman

Deathstroke

Bronze Tiger

Cassie Cain

Lady Shiva

Richard Dragon

Black Canary

Ra's Al Ghul

Conner Hawke

Honorable mentions: Bane, Wildcat, Nightwing and Red Hood.

Marvel:

(no order)

Captain America

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Daredevil

Wolverine

Daken

Shang Chi

Taskmaster

Elektra

Deadpool

Honorable mentions: Black Widow, Nick Fury, Blade, Silver Samurai, Cat.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Can't ask for a better answer. But maybe we can add Black Widow, Hawkeye (trained by Cap), Green Arrow

#6 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@themanintheshoe: I did list Widow, Hawks and Arrow are what I'd place as mid tier fighters. I was only listing top tier and second tier.

Id put Green Arrow and Hawkeye on par with the likes of Moon Knight, Punisher, Gambit, Damien Wayne, Tim Drake, etc. mid/third tier fighters.

#7 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang it! Forgot Bucky/Winter Soldier. I'd place him on par with say Deadpool.

#8 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

This is somewhat in order

DC
1.Cassandra Cain
2.Batman
3.Lady Shiva
4.Conner Hawke
5.Bronze Tiger
6.Richard Dragon
7.Black Canary
8.Bane
9.Nightwing
10.Deathstroke

Marvel
1.Melee
2.Taskmaster
3.Prince of Orphans
4.Wolverine
5.Iron Fist
6.Fat Cobra
7.Steel Serpent
8.Black Panther
9.Captain America
10.Daredevil

Moderator
#9 Edited by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

Why no mention of Karate Kid?

#10 Posted by comicace3 (3469 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by jhazzroucher (15062 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine

Squirrel Girl

Gambit

Storm

Black Panther

Iron Fist

#12 Edited by lilcraig92 (80 posts) - - Show Bio

No Archers belong here (Conner Hawke)

#13 Edited by Havenless (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

Marvel

1.Melee

2.Taskmaster

3.Prince of Orphans

4.Wolverine

5.Iron Fist

6.Fat Cobra

7.Steel Serpent

8.Black Panther

9.Captain America

10.Daredevil

@jhazzroucher said:

Wolverine

Squirrel Girl

Gambit

Storm

Black Panther

Iron Fist

In order to accurately account for how good of fighter someone is, you must strip them of all their powers and weaponry. Normal human Wolverine with no Adamantium or healing factor would get his butt whipped by normal human Punisher.

#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

In order to accurately account for how good of fighter someone is, you must strip them of all their powers and weaponry. Normal human Wolverine with no Adamantium or healing factor would get his butt whipped by normal human Punisher.

This would only be true of Wolverine's fighting skill showings are attributed only to his healing factor and adamantium claws, which they aren't. Alot of the most skilled fighters that Wolverine has fought have healing factors and or powers of their own.

@vance_astro: @jj62: What about Karate Kid?

I forgot about him. I would have put him at #1. Which means Deathstroke wouldn't be on my list at all.

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#15 Posted by God_Spawn (37300 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: I find it kind of funny that people assume Wolverine gets by in fighting on his powers alone against more skilled opponents. I remember when Shang-Chi was embarrassing him because he couldn't win over Sabretooth. Continuity wise later, Sabes has become a joke in comparison to Logan and Logan curbstomped Shang in 3 pages without his claws.

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#16 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17260 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: I find it kind of funny that people assume Wolverine gets by in fighting on his powers alone against more skilled opponents. I remember when Shang-Chi was embarrassing him because he couldn't win over Sabretooth. Continuity wise later, Sabes has become a joke in comparison to Logan and Logan curbstomped Shang in 3 pages without his claws.

well you can't really blame them, sometimes wolverine is written like that for some odd reason.

#17 Edited by TheManInTheShoe (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@themanintheshoe: I did list Widow, Hawks and Arrow are what I'd place as mid tier fighters. I was only listing top tier and second tier.

Id put Green Arrow and Hawkeye on par with the likes of Moon Knight, Punisher, Gambit, Damien Wayne, Tim Drake, etc. mid/third tier fighters.

I see, thanks for clearing things out.

#18 Edited by mightyrearranger (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

I forgot about him. I would have put him at #1. Which means Deathstroke wouldn't be on my list at all.

This is terribly unfair to him after the unarmed feats he displayed in his latest and final issue. :D

I would say Nightwing trumps him on a 1-v-1 scenario because hooray deus ex machina, haha. But you put both in a room with 20 other trained fighters and I'd wager Slade can clear them out quicker.

#19 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger said:

@vance_astro said:

I forgot about him. I would have put him at #1. Which means Deathstroke wouldn't be on my list at all.

This is terribly unfair to him after the unarmed feats he displayed in his latest and final issue. :D

I would say Nightwing trumps him on a 1-v-1 scenario because hooray deus ex machina, haha. But you put both in a room with 20 other trained fighters and I'd wager Slade can clear them out quicker.

Never seen anything from Deathstroke that was very impressive. I didn't however read the final issue. What specifically are you talking about? I always thought Slade got by on his intellect and physical ability and not so much his fighting skill (not to see he's not skilled at all).

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#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@vance_astro: I find it kind of funny that people assume Wolverine gets by in fighting on his powers alone against more skilled opponents. I remember when Shang-Chi was embarrassing him because he couldn't win over Sabretooth. Continuity wise later, Sabes has become a joke in comparison to Logan and Logan curbstomped Shang in 3 pages without his claws.

I find it funny that people don't realize that if Marvel makes a character a certain way they will always have villains or enemies that can match him. What do people think Wolverine has been doing for the past 30 years? Fighting weaker opponents with no skills and no superhuman abilities or healing factor? C'mon...

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#21 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7567 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Karate Kid count? I think he's a little above street level...

#22 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

...

#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

Does Karate Kid count? I think he's a little above street level...

He's actually ALOT above street level but he doesn't have any powers. Martial Arts is his only ability.

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#24 Posted by dokkoidah (18 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say.. Way of the Spider Spider-Man would be up there for Marvel. Not only did he develop his own martial art with assistance from Shang-Chi (he was still a notable scrapper prior), the guy has so much aerial agility for a non-flier, it's nuts. One issue that is one of my modern favourites is how he spent, like, an entire fight swinging back and forth catching the Avengers whom were busy being knocked out of the sky.

#25 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

What about depowered Hercules?

#26 Posted by mavfan626 (4121 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

Mister X

Taskmaster

Elektra

T'Challa

Daken

Wolverine

Deadpool

Gamora

Shang-Chi

X-23

Crossbones

Cat

Daredevil

Echo

DC

Rank 18

Midnighter

Ravager

Bane

Black Canary

Deathstroke

Drakon

Bronze Tiger

Zealot

Bruce Wayne

Cassandra Cain

Lady Shiva

Richard Dragon

#27 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7567 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

Does Karate Kid count? I think he's a little above street level...

He's actually ALOT above street level but he doesn't have any powers. Martial Arts is his only ability.

Oh, okay. Thanks for the info. :)

He knows, like, every martial art known to man, right?

Yeah, now that I think about it that is allot above street level... :P

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

He knows, like, every martial art known to man, right?

I don't think so. I think he knows a ridiculous amount but not everyone. He also knows some alien styles.

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#29 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomnaut said:

What about depowered Hercules?

He's a mediocre fighter. He would be on the same level as The Falcon,Hawkeye,Nick Fury guys like that.

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#30 Edited by mightyrearranger (1461 posts) - - Show Bio


Never seen anything from Deathstroke that was very impressive. I didn't however read the final issue. What specifically are you talking about? I always thought Slade got by on his intellect and physical ability and not so much his fighting skill (not to see he's not skilled at all).

Haha, I was somewhat affably referencing that issue, as it appeared in last week's "Best Comic Battles" article.

However, he has some pretty solid h-2-h feats:

From the issue I brought up earlier he defeats a train full of hired ninjas while unarmed (granted, featless ninjas, but not just any ol' schmuck gets to be a contract ninja, right?):

He's got an unorthodox style, but a hybrid martial artist can still be regarded as a fine martial artist, and I think his overall feats speak to a top 10 DC ranking.

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger I used to think that the fight between Deathstroke and Batman was impressive until I read the whole thing. Deathstroke knows that if he were on the same physical level as Batman, he possibly wouldn't have beaten him. He's even saying to Batman during that fight that he's stronger, faster etc.

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#32 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
Space Wuxia at its finest

#33 Edited by Battle_Forum_Junkie (7567 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

@battle_forum_junkie said:

He knows, like, every martial art known to man, right?

I don't think so. I think he knows a ridiculous amount but not everyone. He also knows some alien styles.

Okay. That's still pretty awesome.

#34 Edited by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel

(in order of me remembering them)

Captain America

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Shang Chi

Wolverine

Taskmaster

Daredevil

Elektra

Winter Soldier

X-23

For DC I'd go with @vance_astro's list.

#35 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle_forum_junkie said:

Okay. That's still pretty awesome.

Yea, it is especially when you consider how ridiculous his feats are.

Moderator
#36 Edited by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel in order IMO

Gamora, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, T'challa, Cap, Taskmaster, Daredevil, Elektra, Wolverine

EDIT- I guess Gamora isnt street level

#37 Posted by Mortium (666 posts) - - Show Bio

@dokkoidah: Do you have scans? That sounds awesome.

#38 Edited by mightyrearranger (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

@mightyrearranger I used to think that the fight between Deathstroke and Batman was impressive until I read the whole thing. Deathstroke knows that if he were on the same physical level as Batman, he possibly wouldn't have beaten him. He's even saying to Batman during that fight that he's stronger, faster etc.

Oh yeah, I agree that Batman still overpasses Deathstroke on any list, but my contention is that Slade has the chops to make the list over possibly Canary or Nightwing, probably Bane as well (why has this fight never happened on comic pages?!?!). Not that any of the aforementioned shouldn't be in the discussion; it's a tough call regardless.

#39 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio
@cfrehse said:

Marvel in order IMO

Gamora, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, T'challa, Cap, Taskmaster, Daredevil, Elektra, Wolverine

EDIT- I guess Gamora isnt street level

Why do people think that Shang Chi is more skilled than guys like Black Panther,Cap,Taskmaster,Daredevil, and especially Wolverine? Or on that note why does Shang Chi even make people's lists? He has some of the most mediocre showings of any martial artist in the Marvel Universe. Hell, Deadpool has better showings than Shang Chi and he's a joke..to take it even further Agent X has better feats than Shang Chi just in the short 15 issues of his ongoing series.

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#40 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

Taskmaster is in my mind marvels best fighter and in DC it would be Karate Kid (if he counts)

#41 Posted by mavfan626 (4121 posts) - - Show Bio
@cfrehse said:

Marvel in order IMO

Gamora, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, T'challa, Cap, Taskmaster, Daredevil, Elektra, Wolverine

EDIT- I guess Gamora isnt street level

Why do people think that Shang Chi is more skilled than guys like Black Panther,Cap,Taskmaster,Daredevil, and especially Wolverine? Or on that note why does Shang Chi even make people's lists? He has some of the most mediocre showings of any martial artist in the Marvel Universe. Hell, Deadpool has better showings than Shang Chi and he's a joke..to take it even further Agent X has better feats than Shang Chi just in the short 15 issues of his ongoing series.

How does Agent X have better feats then Shang Chi?

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

How does Agent X have better feats then Shang Chi?

Now that I look back at his feats. I take that back..but those other guys (Cap,Black Panther,Taskmaster,Daredevil & Wolverine) are definitely better fighters than Shang Chi.

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#43 Edited by Vance Astro (91107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

Marvel in order IMO

Gamora, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, T'challa, Cap, Taskmaster, Daredevil, Elektra, Wolverine

EDIT- I guess Gamora isnt street level

She also doesn't have the feats to be mentioned among any of those characters either.

Moderator
#44 Edited by mavfan626 (4121 posts) - - Show Bio
@mavfan626 said:

How does Agent X have better feats then Shang Chi?

Now that I look back at his feats. I take that back..but those other guys (Cap,Black Panther,Taskmaster,Daredevil & Wolverine) are definitely better fighters than Shang Chi.

Agreed. :)

#45 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#46 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Edited by Wolverine08 (38543 posts) - - Show Bio

My top five for Marvel (No order)

Captain America

Wolverine

Black Panther

Daredevil

Iron Fist

Online
#48 Edited by Juiceboks (7791 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously? No Mr. X? The man bested Wolverine and utterly embarrassed Taskmaster.

#49 Edited by KingAres109 (1245 posts) - - Show Bio

So who is exactly the best in both??Like in a 1v1 battle against all who would win the majority against the others??Like 6/10??

Online
#50 Posted by Blackdog2009 (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

DC: Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Batman, The Question ( the real one, written by Denis O'Neil), Nightwing, Ras AlGhul, Sensei.

DEATHSTROKE SHOULD NOT COUNT... he has enhanced strength, reflexes, and healing factor.