@legacy6364: nevermind the fact that the "american talking Puerto Rican flag" has the authority to ruin that man's career for disobeying a direct order form a superior officer
@legacy6364: nevermind the fact that the "american talking Puerto Rican flag" has the authority to ruin that man's career for disobeying a direct order form a superior officer
No he cant, even when he is called Captain, he isnt an actual Captain.
@legacy6364: nevermind the fact that the "american talking Puerto Rican flag" has the authority to ruin that man's career for disobeying a direct order form a superior officer
No he cant, even when he is called Captain, he isnt an actual Captain.
He's a Captain in the army, he can't demote a police officer, but he is still a Captain.
@legacy6364: nevermind the fact that the "american talking Puerto Rican flag" has the authority to ruin that man's career for disobeying a direct order form a superior officer
Not only does a US Army Captain not have authority over a police officer, Steve Rodgers isn't even on "Title 10 orders".
@legacy6364: nevermind the fact that the "american talking Puerto Rican flag" has the authority to ruin that man's career for disobeying a direct order form a superior officer
No he cant, even when he is called Captain, he isnt an actual Captain.
He's a Captain in the army, he can't demote a police officer, but he is still a Captain.
Is like honorary, like Colonel Sander from KFC.
Also he was never part of the Army, that is what the movies tells, be they reject him and let him be part of the super soldier project.
He was never and official member of the army and for the same he doesnt have any rank.
@legacy6364: @deathpoolthet1000: I'm reasonably sure movie Cap is an official Captain. He sure hasn't ever held the "Private" secret I.D. He had to be something as he was in the secret SSS program.
With that said, Cap could possibly have gotten the officer in trouble by having SHIELD put pressure on the NYPD over it. It's like in the real Army. If I piss off a CO from another company/branch, not much he'll do to me. But if he tells my chain of command, it'll likely trickle down fast. Life will suck.
I doubt Cap would do so though unless the guy's actions caused undo risk or actual loss of life.
@legacy6364: @deathpoolthet1000: I'm reasonably sure movie Cap is an official Captain. He sure hasn't ever held the "Private" secret I.D. He had to be something as he was in the secret SSS program.
With that said, Cap could possibly have gotten the officer in trouble by having SHIELD put pressure on the NYPD over it. It's like in the real Army. If I piss off a CO from another company/branch, not much he'll do to me. But if he tells my chain of command, it'll likely trickle down fast. Life will suck.
I doubt Cap would do so though unless the guy's actions caused undo risk or actual loss of life.
@risingbean: When did he receive his rank...the entire first movie he was a science project and then a promotional advertisement. They even call him out on it. He went from camp to camp doing promotional work, then he disobeyed orders and saved members of his team, and then by the end of the movie fell into the water and froze. He didn't have time to receive a rank or anything of the sort unless shield gave him one.
I know in the comics he has an official rank, carol danvers makes note she outranks him and he couldn't argue it...but the movie world is different.
@legacy6364: @deathpoolthet1000: I'm reasonably sure movie Cap is an official Captain. He sure hasn't ever held the "Private" secret I.D. He had to be something as he was in the secret SSS program.
With that said, Cap could possibly have gotten the officer in trouble by having SHIELD put pressure on the NYPD over it. It's like in the real Army. If I piss off a CO from another company/branch, not much he'll do to me. But if he tells my chain of command, it'll likely trickle down fast. Life will suck.
I doubt Cap would do so though unless the guy's actions caused undo risk or actual loss of life.
Nothing I said was false. Political pressure is a very real thing. If you're ignorant to it, so be it.
If my memory serves you mentioned to Granite that you're a vet. If that is a fact, you may want to muse back to your days in. If you deployed and ran into a Captain from some other unit (or even another branch) on your FOB and he told your chain you disrespected him, you don't think anything is going to happen? I'm sure when the base commander calls in your unit commander and says "Private Smith from your unit disrespected Captain Jones by doing or saying so and so. UnF*** yourself." Smith just embarrassed his unit commander and got him chewed out. Now he is gonna chew out his subordinates and the crap is gonna rain downhill.
@deathpoolthet1000: @w0nd: But Cap was leading missions for the Army in a war zone, which is something that a captain would do. And I doubt the army would let a private be doing that. I always figured that they gave Cap the rank of captain just for the sake of propaganda. Private America and Sargent America aren't as catchy as Captain. Of course they probably figured that he would never be in a position where he would actually be ordering people around, until he jumped into the middle of a war zone.
Whether or not Cap was given his rank as an honor or not I still believe he is officially a captain.
@mchotcakes: he disobeyed order and lead one team who also disobeyed to save another team. Which he proved his superiors wrong, but disobeying orders doesn't get you a higher rank lol. If he did get promoted then so be it but it was never officially stated. They actually started calling him "Captain" America before he even entered battle...as a motivational promotion to the troops..
i guess it comes down to a matter of opinion, no side can prove the other wrong.
@risingbean: When did he receive his rank...the entire first movie he was a science project and then a promotional advertisement. They even call him out on it. He went from camp to camp doing promotional work, then he disobeyed orders and saved members of his team, and then by the end of the movie fell into the water and froze. He didn't have time to receive a rank or anything of the sort unless shield gave him one.
I know in the comics he has an official rank, carol danvers makes note she outranks him and he couldn't argue it...but the movie world is different.
They didn't show him receive any rank. you need to look between the lines. He led men (which is more an Lt. thing as platoon leaders do that, but this is a special case/unit) and planned his teams missions in WW2. (officers do this.) So he acts much like an officer would, he works for S.H.I.E.L.D. as shown in Winter Soldier, so he is on the government dime in modern times. He needs to have a rank of some sort. I'm doubtful he is Private Rogers. Hell, Nick Fury calls him Captain. Not Captain America as in a code name, but simply by rank. There is a lot more evidence that points to Rogers being an officer over being an enlisted man then the inverse.
As for his "mission." in First Avenger. General Tommy Lee Jones wanted him to be an experiment. He'd likely be a Captain here, or at least an LT, just one whose mission was to help generate more super soldiers by getting poked and prodded. The Senator gave Rogers an alternative, to help the war effort by being a propaganda tool. So here he is with another crappy job. When he disobeyed orders nothing happened. He wasn't reprimanded because he succeeded.
Assuming he wasn't a Captain until he saved the 300 or so P.O.W.s, once he proved himself mission capable, I'm sure he was promoted before hitting the field. They did montage his entire campaign taking down the Red Skull's hidden bases so they had time to do it.
As for the movies being different, sure. Movies generally go the simplest way. They don't wan't Captain America having a secret I.D. where he masquerades as a private like he did in the old comic books. It's complicated. It's dumb. It's easier for a movie exec to go "Ok. Captain America is a Captain. People won't question it."
Nothing I said was false. Political pressure is a very real thing. If you're ignorant to it, so be it.
If my memory serves you mentioned to Granite that you're a vet. If that is a fact, you may want to muse back to your days in. If you deployed and ran into a Captain from some other unit (or even another branch) on your FOB and he told your chain you disrespected him, you don't think anything is going to happen? I'm sure when the base commander calls in your unit commander and says "Private Smith from your unit disrespected Captain Jones by doing or saying so and so. UnF*** yourself." Smith just embarrassed his unit commander and got him chewed out. Now he is gonna chew out his subordinates and the crap is gonna rain downhill.
A US Army soldier can not give orders to an Local Law Enforcement Officer. Especially if he's wearing a got damn costume, and no uniform.
And don't ever use my "Vet" status before telling me to "UnF***" myself. Do your research, get your facts straight.
A US Army soldier can not give orders to an Local Law Enforcement Officer. Especially if he's wearing a got damn costume, and no uniform.
And don't ever use my "Vet" status before telling me to "UnF***" myself. Do your research, get your facts straight.
STAY IN SCHOOL!
I don't think you understood me. I said as much. I used an anecdote from my own days on the FOB. (OIF 06-08. Baghdad.) I said that while another unit's commander wouldn't (or perhaps couldn't) deal with me directly, they can go and put down pressure. In this case they speak to the Base Commander (the guy who runs the place you're hanging out at.) and he says "A soldier with a name tape X (Smith was my example.) with this unit patch did XYZ." The Base Commander then calls up the Unit Commander to the ate up soldier. He then has less then kind words. Then the unit commander chews out his subordinates. Sh!t rolls downhill. Depending on how your bosses want to handle it, it may be anything from corrective training to an article 15.
Now I'll barney on over to Cap and the police guy. Cap has no official jurisdiction on the officer that I'm aware of. (I'm not sure how the police and NG mesh. I was never in the NG.) If he is able to pull rank, and isn't listened to, or if the officer's asinine decision got innocents hurt? Cap talks to Nick Fury. Big dog at S.H.I.E.L.D., pals with Robert Redford's big dog. Guys in that paygrade exert political pressure on the police force. Odds are people resign. There you go.
As for hurting your feelings or using your vet status against you? Man up, dude. I was 11B. We should be ribbing each other. Moreso if you were a pog. As it is, I didn't tell you to UnF*** yourself unless you were that guy while you were active. Go read my anecdote again.
They didn't show him receive any rank. you need to look between the lines. He led men (which is more an Lt. thing as platoon leaders do that, but this is a special case/unit) and planned his teams missions in WW2. (officers do this.) So he acts much like an officer would, he works for S.H.I.E.L.D. as shown in Winter Soldier, so he is on the government dime in modern times. He needs to have a rank of some sort. I'm doubtful he is Private Rogers. Hell, Nick Fury calls him Captain. Not Captain America as in a code name, but simply by rank. There is a lot more evidence that points to Rogers being an officer over being an enlisted man then the inverse.
As for his "mission." in First Avenger. General Tommy Lee Jones wanted him to be an experiment. He'd likely be a Captain here, or at least an LT, just one whose mission was to help generate more super soldiers by getting poked and prodded. The Senator gave Rogers an alternative, to help the war effort by being a propaganda tool. So here he is with another crappy job. When he disobeyed orders nothing happened. He wasn't reprimanded because he succeeded.
Assuming he wasn't a Captain until he saved the 300 or so P.O.W.s, once he proved himself mission capable, I'm sure he was promoted before hitting the field. They did montage his entire campaign taking down the Red Skull's hidden bases so they had time to do it.
As for the movies being different, sure. Movies generally go the simplest way. They don't wan't Captain America having a secret I.D. where he masquerades as a private like he did in the old comic books. It's complicated. It's dumb. It's easier for a movie exec to go "Ok. Captain America is a Captain. People won't question it."
Yes but then now we are getting into the "technicalities" of disobeying a direct order from a captain who with all due respect, shows up in tights and starts issuing orders without announcing himself as a captain...he just shows up and barked orders..For the sake of the movie i am fine with them simplifying things down but then the whole discussion turned logic based for what ever reason.
@risingbean: Sorry, I misread the "UnF*** yourself".
Be that as it may, being an 11B makes you a soldier. So you would know you can't pull rank on a Police Officer.
Your rank nor authority does not apply to an Local Law Enforcement Officer.
Gah! I've said this! I don't know how police and National Guard work under Martial law. I'm not sure if there may be some provisions for rank there, but outside of that, I wholly agree. With that said, I think if that officer didn't listen to Cap, and that officer got people killed? Cap could go up his chain. Somebody higher up in SHIELD can cause political discomfort for the NYPD. Then stuff would roll downhill in the police force. I mean what police department wants Captain America calling it inept?
For a real world example, look at how political Ferguson is getting. If you think that police force doesn't feel a political foot standing on it's throat, I'd have to say we are in disagreement.
Edit: @w0nd I think most of what I said above should apply to convo as well.
@risingbean: Sorry, I misread the "UnF*** yourself".
Be that as it may, being an 11B makes you a soldier. So you would know you can't pull rank on a Police Officer.
Your rank nor authority does not apply to an Local Law Enforcement Officer.
Gah! I've said this! I don't know how police and National Guard work under Martial law. I'm not sure if there may be some provisions for rank there, but outside of that, I wholly agree. With that said, I think if that officer didn't listen to Cap, and that officer got people killed? Cap could go up his chain. Somebody higher up in SHIELD can cause political discomfort for the NYPD. Then stuff would roll downhill in the police force. I mean what police department wants Captain America calling it inept?
For a real world example, look at how political Ferguson is getting. If you think that police force doesn't feel a political foot standing on it's throat, I'd have to say we are in disagreement.
Edit: @w0nd I think most of what I said above should apply to convo as well.
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