when does evil win...in comics

I don;'t mean temporarily like certain so called "evil wins" batman arcs, I mean EVIL WINS... hands down. no buts, no final justice. Evil wins irrevocably changing things... for good.

so far the best I can come up with is Civil War (does good eventually triumph... because even in the epilogues and aftermath it seems Tony Stark still wins.) (and captain America is still in jail)

noncanon is okay, but I would prefer canon answers (DC and Marvel Please)

@bierschneeman: would you accept Earth-3 arcs from DC?

@bierschneeman: lucifer won in the lucifer series

In Marvel or DC...Ehh not sure. I was thinking Irredeemable from the question.

eclipso also won when spectre destroyed a whole age of magic

Top Cow, Jackie literally remade the world and made himself king (sort of, he kinda sucks at it). Evil has pretty much been winning since the beginning in Hellboy and BPRD too.

Thanks for the responses.

any others ?? so Tony Stark is the only Bad Guy to win in the main two universes? does this ever get set right, or are metahumans still enslaved under the Registration Act?

That's actually really hard to define imo. I can think of comics where the bad guy wins but I wouldn't call it irrevocably for good. Aside from the complete destruction of the world how can any victory be truly irrevocable? Reminds me kind of Watchmen where the nominal "villain" wins and causes a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions yet it's still left ambiguous as to whether he actually achieved anything at all.

Does age of ultron count

you have actually illustrated my problem pretty well, sure they might lash out, or they might end up killing a superhero, but their end goal, beit conquer the world, or robbing everybank in Gotham in alphabetical order, Is ALWAYS foiled. you don't win a war by killing a bunch of people or destroying lots of infrastructure, so why is this considered a Supervillain 'WIN"?

Tony Stark had a goal, pass, enforce, and support the Registration act. He won, at the end of the storyarc, he accomplished his goals without someone trouncing in to saved the day, the supervillain wins. He managed to even change the comic line up because of his victory.

but this seems to be the only one out there.

Sinestro comes to mind. at the end of Sinestro Corps war, when we think ...HA he lost. he tries to play it off as a win, as if all he wanted was to change the Book of OA, then later he comes across as a Harbringer of BLACKEST NIGHT, or is it that he is trying to protect the universe from BLACKEST NIGHT, its so ambiguous, and reeks of poor sportsmenship and bad planning, I have a hard time calling this a win, AT ALL. (NUH UH, I won because I wasn't trying to actually beat you.....wait, what??)

Sins Pasts

thank you, ill look into it....and actually you have reminded me, that One More Day the villain won as well

Wolverine: Old Man Logan is the only example I can think of were the Villains beat the Heroes.

Every month Marvel passes DC in sales.

this.

sweet, im reading that volume of wolverine currently haven't gotten that far yet.

@bierschneeman: It's a good read so I won't ruin anything for you.

Wut?

Every day The New 52 is around, evil wins.

This made me laugh harder than I should have.

Well done. I would have follow you if I wasn't already ;)

Haha thank you, I aim to entertain :D

The only thing I can think of is Watchmen. But that can be considered pretty debatable.

Every time Lex Luthor doesn't beat Supes. D:

Forever Evil, since it hasn't ended yet :P

Lex Luthor Man of Steel. great comic.

sums the whole thing up... Luthor is a hero. "saving the world from an alien Menace"

not that I hate Superman though

Didn't the Avengers lose earth like twice?

Shredder has been winning a lot in IDW's TMNT series, it puts other villains to shame.

That's a tough question - I can only think of a few examples...

The batman 666 universe was pretty much evil winning throughout, but that was an alternate reality so it didn't really matter too much.

What happens to Sinestro in the majority of the new 52 GL run leading up to #20 could also be considered as evil winning (korugar, parralax & the guardians).

The last one I can think of is Ultimate Peter Parker's death. Osborne set out to kill Peter, and he succeeded at that, which has permanently changed things since.

They're the main examples I can think of in Marvel & DC. It's rare for evil to triumph tbh.

@bierschneeman: In Marvel:

Doom: He's allowed be a tyrant of his own country, doing nefarious stuff every day. The heroes don't do a thing cause they fear him.

Galactus: He's still the destroyer of planets, killing trillions with no end.

A.I.M: Now similar to Doom, although they use legal means to escape justice.

Green Goblin killed Gwen. That is a pretty definitive win for him. Peter never really recovered from that.

Death in the family, the Black Mirror and Flash: Blitz where Zoom succeeds in having Linda miscarry her first set of twins.

@bierschneeman: I'm just curious as to why you think Tony was the villain in that story. But that's for another day...

Dan Didio is still editor in cheif at DC. Evil has won the day.

When good men do nothing...

Thanos conquered and defeated the multiverse 2 times and left his victories because he kinda bored or changed his mind.

For a while now Doc ock has been winning by being the superior spider-man. But that's not indefinite. What about Green Goblin killing Gwen Stacy? She's never come back. Would that count as a win for him?

Wanted. The real Mark Millar story, not the poor man's Fight Club featuring wasted talent and exploding rats.

Oh and also if non-cannons count, Marvel's what if series are like 9 out 10 evil wins

Nitro was just a catalyst, Damage Inc just an opportunist, Spiderman just a victim, it was Captain America vs Iron Man... Iron Man was advocating slavery for all metahumans.

villain

@bierschneeman:

Most villians Batman faces for the first time.

at the end of the arc, good triumphs. so that doesn't count.

Just like every other comic. Villains never truly win.

I thought that was the case.... BUT Civil War proved I was wrong in this assumption, and people have told me about the Spiderman arcs pointed out above (Gwen Stacy's Death, One More Day, Sins Past, etc.)

a few Otherworlds, and Flash: Blitz, Death in the Family, (just thought of Killing Joke, BUT his main goal was to make Gordon fall to their level, and HE FAILED)

et cetera et cetera (Thank you all)

The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, OMD etc.

Crossed with intelligent pseudo-zombies taking over the world with any good character which tries to 1 bit of good gets brutally killed, tortured or raped & only selfish aholes surviving with doing dickhead stuff to others . Whole series just shows there's no hope of any good in their world
Warren Ellis's Supergod shows a world with superheroes arms race with end result with Moon getting destroyed, environment going haywire , billions dead with supermassive mushroom growing on them & whatever survivors left are already dying with either starvation or wanking off uncontrollably.
Warren Ellis's No Hero where even though after the main supervillain is killed then world's economy quickly collapses , White house gets blown up & World war 3 starts.
Warren Ellis's Ruins presents a pessimist & direct opposite world of Alex Ross's Marvels
Mark Waid's Empire deal with Dr Doom's analogue taking over the World & his internal struggle
Marvel Zombies 1, Garth Ennis's 303, Alan Moore's Courtyard, Marvel Universe Vs Avengers, Deadpool Kills Marvel Universe, Thanos: The End, Hulk: The End, Punisher: The End, American Virgin, Cla$$War, Mark Millar's Wanted, Saw:Rebirth, What if World War Hulk first alternative ending
Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm's Street, Halloween , Hellraiser comics too

The beginning of "Age of Apocalypse" where Apocalypse won and ruled the world.... Or Star Wars and how Sidious and the Sith won.... Also "The Origin of Hordak" from Masters of The Universe, he won in that issue and killed his brother and began a conquest of taking over galaxies.

I say the entire Gotham situation is the triumph of evil over good. They have an insane system of "locking up" these mass murderers in a facility that they can clearly walk out of almost anytime and the guy that can stop them won't ever kill them. How many citizens have died because of this system? How is there anyone left alive in Gotham after like 70 years of this? Sometimes people come to destroy the whole city just BECAUSE of Batman. Just to f*** with him.

@bierschneeman:

There have been several times Bad Guys have raped the good guys. Dr. Light to Plastic Man's wife, Norman Osborn to Gwen Stacy, Joker to Batgirl, Tarantula to Nightwing...that's just three & they are all considered cannon.

Even Peter Parker gets raped.

Also Bruce Banner was abused as a child. http://www.cracked.com/article_19799_5-creepy-superhero-origin-stories-movies-wisely-left-out_p2.html

Also Bruce almost gets raped... http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/02/23/mistakes-of-a-past-history-2/

Gallery

@bierschneeman: Enslavement?