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#1 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

In comic books and movies based on comics, we have seen loads of times when a character without powers defeats a super-powered character. An example being 'Tower of Babel'. It doesn't show Batman actually defeating the JLA but just his contingency plans. A good example would be 'JLA: New World Order' where Batman defeats four Martians. He defeats four beings who are as strong, as fast and as durable as Superman and have loads of other deadly powers like Telepathy, Invisibility, Phasing and total control over every single cell of their bodies. How did he do it? Intelligence, fast-thinking. He proved the age old saying over and over again that 'Brains are mightier than Brawn'. Another example would be Steve Rogers. Now, I don't believe that he is super-human. He has peak-human physical and mental abilities. He used his skills and intelligence and tactical ability to beat-up Spider-Man in 'Amazing Spider-Man 534'. He dominated a being who is much stronger and faster than him. Plus Spidey was using the Iron-Spiderman suit which Stark developed for him. So, what does it take to win a fight? I personally believe that it does not matter how strong or fast you are, but how good a fighter you are. And how smart you are. What do you think?

#2 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

Speed, intelligence and durability. In no specific order

#3 Posted by Strider92 (16605 posts) - - Show Bio

Strategy is always the strongest factor.

#4 Posted by The Stegman (24638 posts) - - Show Bio

How close to being Batman you are

#5 Posted by SC (13145 posts) - - Show Bio

The story and entertainment value and the fact that often we can't quantify every variable in a situation.  
 
David and Goliath style plots have proven to be extremely popular to humans. Heroes who face incredible odds. Except for every David who beats a Goliath story there are dozens and dozens of potential protagonists that Goliath faces and murderates. Except generally its more popular to hear about the time he was "beat up" in a fight. That wasn't an ongoing story with hundreds of protagonists, or hundreds of writers though, like comics, so how all those variables interact with each other, such as who is the protagonist, which characters need more credibility than others, which characters are more popular and for what reasons, all factors. All ultimately factors surrounding what will make for the best story, or story most likely to turn profit, since the two aren't always the same.  
 
Its also hard to measure things like courage, determination, mental hardness, motivation, and so on, and those things can fluctuate a lot more than say physical strength. When those things change, outcomes change. Characters don't always exert their maximum abilities either, attributes and so on at max each time they exert themselves, the same way the guy with the fastest track record or power lift doesn't equal their record each time they perform. All these things adjustable for the sake of the plot to try and make a compelling or popular story. 

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#6 Posted by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

A very old adage very much applies here: Experience and trechery will always defeat youth and skill.

#7 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

luck

#8 Posted by EdBlank (536 posts) - - Show Bio

Art of War. If you are close make them think you are far away. If you have a large army make them think you have a small one etc..(and vice versa for all). Strategy, strategy, location. Then again, Super just guts it out and bashes his way through. So: either be Superman, or have a great plan.

#9 Posted by IfDCRuledTheWorld (659 posts) - - Show Bio

In a real fight...strategy. In the comic world...the writing, I guess. In movies....just wing it.

#10 Posted by Zomboid (740 posts) - - Show Bio

As they say, brains > brawn.

#11 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Superguy0009e said:

luck

and timing, everything else is secondary 
#12 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Strategy is always the strongest factor.

#13 Posted by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999: Isnt that the thing though? That the factor changes for every battle, like lets say Batman fights a dude who is a much stronger, faster and durable than him, but he is rather stupid so Batman would likely figure a way to outsmart him and thus winning the fight... so the factor in that fight would be - intelligence.

Now if he met a guy who was just as intelligent, smart and combatent as he is, but also much stronger, faster and durable... then the factor in that fight would be psysical attributes.

I think the real question is; what is the main factor for winning for a givin person: Batman = Intelligence, Superman = Psysical prowess, Flash = Duh!. Captain America = Experiance and strategy. You know.. i once took like five taekwondo classes, i cant remember any moves but i remember they had a poster that said something like - find your own strenghts and utilize those as much as possible!

But overall... i think the greatest strenghts in a battle are intelligence, experiance and adjusment.

#14 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
Having better stats than your opponent?
#15 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

Having better stats than your opponent?

Yes, well obviously but that's just a small factor in a fight. Just because you have better stats doesn't guarantee an automatic win, which is something that evidenced by characters such as Batman time and time again.

I don't just mean physical. I'm talking about everything overall, including mental (intelligence, tactical knowledge) stats.
#16 Posted by BearerOfArtifacts (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

Having better stats than your opponent?

Yes, well obviously but that's just a small factor in a fight. Just because you have better stats doesn't guarantee an automatic win, which is something that evidenced by characters such as Batman time and time again.

I don't just mean physical. I'm talking about everything overall, including mental (intelligence, tactical knowledge) stats.

As far as I'm concerned, skill and knowledge aren't stats and generally aren't measured as such because Publishers don't like to quantify such things.

#17 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

Having better stats than your opponent?

Yes, well obviously but that's just a small factor in a fight. Just because you have better stats doesn't guarantee an automatic win, which is something that evidenced by characters such as Batman time and time again.

I don't just mean physical. I'm talking about everything overall, including mental (intelligence, tactical knowledge) stats.

As far as I'm concerned, skill and knowledge aren't stats and generally aren't measured as such because Publishers don't like to quantify such things.

They quantify intelligence.
#18 Posted by BearerOfArtifacts (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

@BearerOfArtifacts said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

Having better stats than your opponent?

Yes, well obviously but that's just a small factor in a fight. Just because you have better stats doesn't guarantee an automatic win, which is something that evidenced by characters such as Batman time and time again.

I don't just mean physical. I'm talking about everything overall, including mental (intelligence, tactical knowledge) stats.

As far as I'm concerned, skill and knowledge aren't stats and generally aren't measured as such because Publishers don't like to quantify such things.

They quantify intelligence.

Yes, but intelligence means nothing in a fight unless you get prep. At least the intelligence that is quantified.

#19 Posted by Pauldro (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Strategy, I think you win a fight with the least amount of injury and the least amount of wasted energy.

#20 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy: You're right. Speed and durability are important factors. And Intelligence is obviously the most important factor. But things like speed and durability doesn't explain how Batman was able to take down four martians who are hundreds of times faster and more durable than Batman.

#21 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999 said:

@Jorgevy: You're right. Speed and durability are important factors. And Intelligence is obviously the most important factor. But things like speed and durability doesn't explain how Batman was able to take down four martians who are hundreds of times faster and more durable than Batman.

Never try to use a Batman fight as a reference. He is vengeance, he is the night.

#22 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- The most important factor is how well one character matches up to another in a particular situation

- No matter how much of a powerhouse a character may be, if the opponent is limited but their abilities are their exact weakness all their power can be for naught.

- No one ability can trump all others because in the wrong match up anyone and anything can be beaten

#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (14899 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

How close to being Batman you are

ROFL.Now serious,all you need is a strategy,luk and durability.

#24 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Willingness to play dirty , creativity , resourcefulness

#25 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skunkstein: You are right. You are absolutely right. Intelligence is important. In 'JLA: New World Order', Batman figured out that 'The Hyperclan' were martians and used gasoline and a simple matchstick to beat them. If you look at Captain America (Steve Rogers), he has beat much stronger opponents by using his vast experience and his tactical prowess. And as you say, adjustment s important. A great fighter can adjust to any battle scenario.

I have been studying Taekwondo, Muay Thai and Mixed Martial arts for seven years now. And one of the most important lessons that I learnt was that it does not matter how strong or fast you are. But what matters is the technique and skill which you use. Strength and speed are important. But what's even more important is skill and technique. How skilled you are determines the outcome of a fight.

#26 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@WildValentine: I am not using him as a reference. I am just saying that he used his intelligence to defeat four beings who are at Superman's level

#27 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:

Batman can never be a reference, or a comparative point, with preparation his intelligence makes up for everything. Same goes for Flash, without prep his speed makes up for everything.

When I said the combat trifecta (speed, intelligence and durability) I meant for almost every kind of fight, not prep battles. Also, in comics books things are much different. A lot of times its luck or PIS due to the characters popularity or usefulness

#28 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy: I am not saying that. I know that his intelligence makes up for everything just the way Cap's tactical skills make up for everything. But that intelligence in not any good without his fighting, gymnastic and other more practical skills. I'm saying that the main factors in winning a fight are skill, intelligence and experience.

#29 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999: yeah I know you weren't trying to do that. I wasn't trying to go over the topic in specific or in this case. I was just saying it in general. Of course different battles and scenarios may require different advantages. But I still stick with the opinion that speed, intelligence and durability are the most important overall...

#30 Posted by BatWatch (2760 posts) - - Show Bio

Not getting killed.

#31 Posted by Trodorne (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

Having a good writer to help make your win seem like it makes sense.

#32 Posted by karrob (4280 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pauldro said:

Strategy, I think you win a fight with the least amount of injury and the least amount of wasted energy.

#33 Posted by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne: Well...true...having a good writer in your corner is always a plus. I'm CONSTANTLY wishing I had a good writer over my shoulder/in my brain when engaged in a debate, talking to a girl, trying to crack a joke, but alas, I have to deal with my lil ol' damaged gray matter. I've already given my opinion on how to IMPROVE your odds of winning a fight...sadly there is no "magic bullet" so to speak. It all depends on situation, training, combat awareness, how much of these things your opponent has and sorry to say it...all too often luck. The training is often (in my painful experience) to minimize the role luck plays in a fight. Again, my two cents...take it for what it's worth.

#34 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdBlank: Yes, but even Superman can be beaten with a great strategy. And even Superman needs strategy sometimes, as evidenced by 'K: The Hunt for Kryptonite'

#35 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne: I am talking about any fight. What if Superman and Hulk faced off in real life? Without the need for a writer or plot.

#36 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11265 posts) - - Show Bio

Bi-winning!

#37 Posted by jhazzroucher (15871 posts) - - Show Bio

Fans enthusiasm! : )

#38 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997: Fighting Skills. Fighting Skills are important. In a single one-on-one match most of the times, beings like like Cap, Batman, Logan use their fighting skills to win.

#39 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy: They are important. But I think that fighting skills are equally important. Like you said speed, intelligence and durability are the most important but they won't be any help without fighting skills.

#40 Posted by TDK_1997 (14899 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:That's true but Logan almost never uses his fighting skills.He should be one of the best martial artists in Marvel but he always just jumps and slashes things until they are dead or destroyed.

#41 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997: You're right. But you know, that's just a form of fighting which Logan has developed over years of using his claws.

#42 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Never backing down.

#43 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Super Speed, Intelligence, Durability and super strength.

#44 Posted by TDK_1997 (14899 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999:Yes.But writers shouldn't use him only as a stabbing killer that can't do anything else.He has some abilities and they need to start using them.

#45 Posted by Agent9149 (2894 posts) - - Show Bio

Strategy, it doens't matter how powerful you are, if your strategy has holes in it, someone will find away through it and take you down

#46 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

How close to being Batman you are
#47 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997: That they do.

They tend to forget that he is an exceptionally skilled fighter, tactician, strategist and a genius level intellect. When Forge monitored Wolverine's vitals during a Danger Room training session, he reported Logan's physical and mental state as "equivalent to an Olympic-level gymnast performing a Gold-medal-winning routine whilst simultaneously beating four chess computers in his head".

#48 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64: Intelligence, yes. But I don't think super-strength and speed and other powers matter so much.

#49 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33620 posts) - - Show Bio
@darkazrael999 said:

@TDK_1997: That they do.

They tend to forget that he is an exceptionally skilled fighter, tactician, strategist and a genius level intellect. When Forge monitored Wolverine's vitals during a Danger Room training session, he reported Logan's physical and mental state as "equivalent to an Olympic-level gymnast performing a Gold-medal-winning routine whilst simultaneously beating four chess computers in his head".

They throw that term around in comic books that much the term has become meaningless 
#50 Posted by WarBlade539 (4594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Agent9149: That's true. Batman has proved that a thousand times over