What feat would Goku have to perform..?

@gambit474:

"I didn't even bother reading all of that."

Evidently.

Goku don't fight at lightspeed, nor Superman...

The same could be said about Superman being overrated. Every other Superman feat is taken out of context by Superman d.i.c.k riders (The most notorious one is SA Superman sneezing a Solar System away). No one calls "PIS" on anything Superman does like they do to Thor, Sentry and Hulk. Saying Superman is out of Goku's league is just not true. Even the weakest of Dbz characters display the destructive capabilities to casually destroy moon, planets with little to no effort and the later enemies are shown to only get stronger. I read all of Superman current books which is why I can show you why Goku stomps him. You're overrating Superman really badly specially if you're talking about New-52.

do you have some feats or evidence to suport your statement? I'm not looking to defend goku, only I look for a good debate.

Superman is overrated, but he's done things that makes it believable as to why he became that way compared to Goku. Blowing up planets isn't impressive, regardless of what any DBZ fan says. I'm not overrating Superman, it's true that Superman can survive in deep space and does things like flying through black holes. Unless you can provide evidence of Goku doing the same, and actual evidence..not just words and speculation, then you're in no position to say otherwise. Superman isn't even my favorite, Ghost Rider and Spawn are who can both roflstomp Goku but that's a different discussion ;D, and I know how much more overpowered he is than Goku. Between the two, I see more fans make up things in Goku's favor than the opposite. Saying stupid things like "Goku will just blow up the sun" and such makes Goku far more ridiculous than Superman. DBZ fans just don't like to be told they're wrong

@mortein: Good job on post #194. You see how quiet Superman fanboys are now.

@gambit474:

Superman is overrated, but he's done things that makes it believable as to why he became that way compared to Goku. Blowing up planets isn't impressive, regardless of what any DBZ fan says. I'm not overrating Superman, it's true that Superman can survive in deep space and does things like flying through black holes. Unless you can provide evidence of Goku doing the same, and actual evidence..not just words and speculation, then you're in no position to say otherwise. Superman isn't even my favorite, Ghost Rider and Spawn are who can both roflstomp Goku but that's a different discussion ;D, and I know how much more overpowered he is than Goku. Between the two, I see more fans make up things in Goku's favor than the opposite. Saying stupid things like "Goku will just blow up the sun" and such makes Goku far more ridiculous than Superman. DBZ fans just don't like to be told they're wrong

I love how nobody calls "PIS" or anything on something Superman does it is so funny. Superman was almost killed by a nuke before but barely escaped, and he some how survives in a black hole but everyone says that a legit feat, yeah, okay, he clearly survived because of plot. He has no previous feats before that, that suggest he could even come close to surviving a black hole.

That's great I like Ghostrider(Robby Reyes) too, and I will be for sure checking out Spawn in the future he seems like a interesting and cool character. Superman isn't even that overpowered though specially his New-52 iteration I mean like I said earlier the guy almost died from a nuke. Alright as I continue to read your post it just seems like you don't just like Goku so of course naturally your going to go with Superman.

It doesn't matter whatever feat Goku can perform. Superman fans can always find a more powerful version.

@mortein: excellent post

@gambit474: you keep using pre new 52 superman feats, does that mean you think goku stomps new 52 superman?

But just because we can't precisely determine the speed, it doesn't mean that this feat is useless. It's quite obvious that the writer wanted us to show us how they can travel from Egypt to China to Siberia and then to Arizona in the time it takes to have one short conversation. I'm not saying this feat alone is enough to estimate SMs speed, but if we combine it with many similar feats, power scaling and statements, that should be enough to make a reasonably good estimation.

Is it really a speculation to say that Frieza put more a lot more effort when he fired an energy beam at Goku, than when he fired an energy beam at planet Vegeta? Just take a look at those 2 scans up there. It's also not a speculation to say that Frieza who tried real hard, and failed to hurt Goku was far more powerful than Frieza who effortlessly destroyed planet Vegeta. Goku even says " you destroyed a whole planet, and you can't even defeat one of its inhabitants."

Just because this logic doesn't work within the marvel universe, it doesn't mean it's not a sound logic, the problem is in the marvel universe not in this kind of methodology. Within the Marvel universe, pretty much any significant character was able to put up a fight against character which are a tier or two above them. Thor was able to put up a fight against guys like Odin, Celestials or Galactus, but guys like Wolverine, Spiderman, Iron man were also able to put up a good fight against Thor. This doesn't make much sense, but this kind of crap happens consistently throughout the marvel universe, Spider Man survives a punch from an enraged Hulk in one chapter, and then some peak human hurts him with a punch in another.

I'm not saying DBZ has no problems with consistency and whatnot, but DBZ problems are different from Marvel/DC problems, and thus different approach is necessary when estimating the capabilities of DBZ characters, assuming we really want ot make the best possible estimation. Within the DBZ universe someone like Nappa could never put up a fight against someone like Frieza. If Nappa and Frieza were going to fight, there are only 3 possible outcomes, either Frieza is going to one shot him, or Frieza is going to play with him and kill him slowly, or Nappa will get some insane power up and become able to fight Frieza.

I'm not saying every attack has a planet busting power, but when a character that is massively more powerful than a casual planet busters puts a lot of effort to fire an energy beam, then quite cleary the best possible conclusion we can make is that this beam almost certainly has planet+ level busting power.

@mortein:

1. The feat is fine in story, but useless on the battle forums. It may have been obvious what the writer was trying to convey, but without specifics, one could easily rationalize the feat to their favor. Do you know how fast they were talking? Do you know the time frame of each panel. Like I said before, without those specifics the feat could range from FTL to Hypersonic. And it's true for Superman that we could use other feats to probably determine how fast he was going, but statements are out of the window unless they're backed up. For example, by statement, Superman can react within the femtosecond which is a timeframe so small that light hardly begins to move.

Power Scaling, IMO, will always be one of the lowest common denominators of debating. It's used in DBZ simply because there are multipliers present in the story, but I really believe the logic is faulty at best. Can we power scale for Superman? IIRC, every 15 minutes in the sun gives him twice the power, so why are characters like Superman Prime one million considered featless?

2. So, am I to assume that every punch Superman throws is at least strong enough to destroy a moon as long as he tried really hard? If Superman, addressing Imperiex, had said something like "You destroyed a whole galaxy, but you can't even destroy one of it's inhabitants", would that make Superman powerful enough to survive attacks on that scale? It's the same logic.....

3. It's not sound logic at all...proof is proof, and that's what you lack. Replace those above scans of Goku with Nappa, and try to come to the same conclusion. And for the record, characters do punch above their weight class in DBZ. Off the bat, Gohan took hits and even hurt Frieza when they fought.

4. There's a difference between speculation and reaching a conclusion.

No, I don't. Superman's still able to survive in deep space and was flying through black holes in New 52

@princearagorn1: Apologies for the (very)late reply.

That said, let's get on with it:

"I'm 100% certain the 'gravity didn't change' is mentioned nowhere in the series, ever. Since your argument is based on it, I'm going to ask for proof. Because when something is damaged, it's gravity has to change, near compulsory."

1. You're right, flat out saying that "it didn't change", is claiming knowledge I don't actually have. I retract the statement and apologize for the misunderstanding. The correct statement would be that there is no indication that it(the gravity of the planet) ever changed.

"I don't have to. When an object that size attracts has 10x earth's gravity, there's no other explanation possible at all."

Not true. I have already given one possible, other, explanation.

And to repeat a statement I've made before(in this thread iirc), we're talking about a universe where the destruction of the Moon had no negative impact on the Earth, where the Moon has(or at least had) a breathable atmosphere, and where moving faster than sound doesn't generate sonic booms. That the real world laws of physics are not entirely valid, is pretty obvious. And "real world laws of physics" is the only thing that you seem to be basing your statement, about the correlation between mass and gravity, on.

In comparison, the explanation of "magic"(for the lack of a better word), seems far more reasonable, all things considered.

@mortein:

"I was under impression that when the Bills made the planet explode, it's core imploded and formed the extremely dense but tiny planet. Similarly like when a star explodes it leaves behind a neutron star, or a black hole.

But even if we grant the possibility that King Kai used the magic to increase the gravity of the planet, we need to take into consideration what kind of magic Kai's were shown to have.

Kai's were shown to be able to increase the mass of an object like here for example"

1. Just like princearagorn1, you seem to be basing your statements on real world laws of physics, which is silly at best.

2. No, the Kais were not shown increasing the mass, they were shown increasing the weight(there's a difference). How, exactly, they changed the weight, is information we are not actually given.

Why was this bumped?

@sirmethos:

Apologies for the (very)late reply. That said, let's get on with it:

lol, that's alright. Welcome back.

1. You're right, flat out saying that "it didn't change", is claiming knowledge I don't actually have. I retract the statement and apologize for the misunderstanding. The correct statement would be that there is no indication that it(the gravity of the planet) ever changed.

"I don't have to. When an object that size attracts has 10x earth's gravity, there's no other explanation possible at all."

Not true. I have already given one possible, other, explanation.

When you say some fictional force is involved, you need something to back it up. The planet having 10x gravity has never been attributed to magic, despite the discussion about it.

And to repeat a statement I've made before(in this thread iirc), we're talking about a universe where the destruction of the Moon had no negative impact on the Earth, where the Moon has(or at least had) a breathable atmosphere, and where moving faster than sound doesn't generate sonic booms. That the real world laws of physics are not entirely valid, is pretty obvious. And "real world laws of physics" is the only thing that you seem to be basing your statement, about the correlation between mass and gravity, on.

So? That's like saying 'because superman can go faster than light, no law of physics ever holds up in DC'

In comparison, the explanation of "magic"(for the lack of a better word), seems far more reasonable, all things considered.

There's no reason to involve magic when there's not even a hint of it.

Attention Fanboys.

Goku is in fact a planet buster . Through seeing all the events of Dragon Ball, especially related to the people he's beaten or even beaten to near death, the proof is made known. Beerus the humanoid cat-god wipes out galaxies with ease and all who have seen the Battle of the Gods movie know how well Super Saiyan god Goku did in that fight.

superman was never better than goku

his skill levels are enough

No proof has surfaced about Screwattacks Physical abilities of Goku being wrong, however i do believe that Goku's sheer firepower is far stronger than superman's so that is probably what could kill him.

I always thought it was overzealous that people think Superman fights at FTL speeds. If he did so, he would never lose to anyone, ever. Superman seems to draw his striking power from super-strength via incredible mass and muscle density, not from incredible limb speed, like the Flash or Zoom do. Force = Mass x Acceleration, it seems to me Superman leans towards the Mass side of that equation while Flash leans towards the Acceleration side. Both lead to incredible force, but in reality are functionally different.

He has moved very quickly in flight and travel, but in actual limb movement or perceptions, I don't believe Superman fights at even near light speed. With his raw strength, if he did so, he would literally never lose, but we have all seen Superman get hit, have trouble tagging someone, or lose or struggle in multiple battles.