Win by death.
Who wins?
Vergil (Devil May Cry) vs Sasuke (Naruto Shippuden)
Perfect Susanoo slash GG.
@leo-343: Vergil Is incredibly fast, if you look Vergil's judgement cuts look like the enemy's are going in slow motion, despite Vergil jumping around incredibly fast.
Not only that, nevan id a lightning based weapon. And he was fighting dante with that weapon while dante had quicksilver.
@no_one_in_particular said:
@leo-343: Vergil Is incredibly fast, if you look Vergil's judgement cuts look like the enemy's are going in slow motion, despite Vergil jumping around incredibly fast.
Not only that, nevan id a lightning based weapon. And he was fighting dante with that weapon while dante had quicksilver.
That isn't canon. Gameplay from DMC4SE for Vergil was specifically said to be non canon. And none of that even suggests he's faster than Sasuke.
Been debunked where?
Refer to below
Um... Yh I can cross those countries on foot, anyone can, but I can't run across them in mere moments. Not entirely sure what point you're making here.
Sure but how long will it take? Traveling real life countries would at least take several months and maybe even more then a year depending on the countries but it obviously didn't took that long for Team 7 to Escort Tazuna from Konoha to Land of Waves
Two pages of manga dialogue is still short for a speech but even if you don't think so I still don't see how this takes away from the feat... He still crossed countries before someone finished giving a speech.
Fine, lets put the feat onto paper for you to better understand. A dialogue that long would take at least a minute and let's be generous by consider Naruto countries to be as large as real life countries which would result in a barely 3 digit in Mach feat regardless of all the extreme high balling
who exactly debunked the lightspeed feat?
Here, this is the most recent one I remember
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/kaguya-vs-blue-marvel-1687726/?messageId=14911398
You even tagged me in your post but didn't even addressed to a single thing I said furthermore if ignoring the comments of credible users like sirfizzwhizz only to go after fanboys is your understanding of making an argument then don't do it at all
Seriously no one except Naruto fans buys light speed Naruto characters
Vergil embarrassing people who can move at lightning speed ? Who ? Hopefully not Dante.
Sorry to disappoint you but its Dante and you are free to argue with stated facts
I'm not one who believes that Naruto is light speed, but the only reasoning everyone has been using to "debunk" that feat is calling it an outlier. That's not what I'd call debunking even less since Dante fans constantly wank him to light speed using similar reasoning.
How its not debunking when the outlier simply covers up everything regarding how it doesn't adds up anything in Naruto as in general?
Now the difference between Dante and Naruto
- Dante has several different feats regardless of the fact that he severely lacks screen time because of being a VG character whereas Naruto has only one (Dante has consistency, Naruto does not)
- Dante's feats vary one of them is dodging stated light while the other one is proven to be light for possessing scientific properties that only light can have like refraction
- Proof of Naruto's feat comes from a source that is infamous for its hyperboles and exaggerations
It took two days for superhuman ninjas moving as faster than the eye can see speeds to cross that distance previously and whether humans cross them on foot or hands that doesn't change anything to the fact that they are countries
Measuring size/distance from character speed/time? Really? You do realize that's one of most inconsistent
- It took Luffy a few hours to go to one side of Jaya and return back after beating Bellamy where if we were to size scale from Luffy's speed it we would end up with a multi-continent buster Enel in the long run.
- Akira Toriyama stated that DB universe is equal to ours in size which would make Goku's Snake Way feat smt like 180-200 times FTL
- I don't even want to mention Bleach and its walking days
If you want more I can easily give examples but before everything the entire Land of Waves Arc contradicts the hell out of the instance you just mentioned
whether humans cross them on foot or hands that doesn't change anything to the fact that they are countries
Fictional countries with no valid proof of being as large as real life countries but in return having plot points to suggest they are fairly smaller compared to our own
and that that feat is far better than Dante taking an eternity to escalate a tower even more since the feat was extremely casual as Naruto was in his base form.
Awesome low balling there, if a horde of demons were to pop out of nowhere in every single room you entire of course it would take an eternity to escalate a tower
@colliderz said:
@hulkage said:
@colliderz: That's because you say the same things everyone else has said that has been addressed time and time again. I'm not about to recounter the same things over and over just because you can't or refuse to read. But just this one I'll indulge.
Bring up the same tired arguments and I'll address them, one by one.
Edit: and I did address FizzWhizz, we were having the same exact argument in two different threads
No one in that thread ever brought up Naruto's precog which was what I mentioned first and foremost now since you are so eager what do you have to say against that? Anyway the main idea is that your feat is a one time only outlier instance that doesn't makes up with any other speed feat of Naruto at all plus comparing Naruto's DC or durability is bad reasoning. Now show me Naruto having any other speed feat that's above 3 digit Mach, some mid and high relativistic feats to suggest a healthy scaling for Naruto unless you can provide a handful of high relativistic or light speed feats which is the least you should be doing Naruto's speed jumping from 3 digit Mach to Mach 880991 is a ridiculous outlier. Try to justify it through Naruto's power progress? Naruto's DC and durability always had healthy growing rate, he didn't jumped from his street level self into his current EOS one you know he was mountain buster then become multi mountain and it continued like this unlike what you are trying make out of his speed.
No one in that thread ever brought up Naruto's precog which was what I mentioned first and foremost now since you are so eager what do you have to say against that?
That's because I had addressed his precog in my original post a few months ago. A simple copy and paste should suffice here:
This is the most obvious one, Naruto dodging Madara's light fang:
| Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang (仙法・嵐遁光牙, Senpō: Ranton Kōga) |
|---|
Ninjutsu - Senjutsu  A Ninjutsu used by those who gained the Six Paths power, they emit a beam of light to bisect the enemy. Like a sharp and pointed fang, it cuts all things with the speed of light, making it impossible for the enemy to evade even one swing. |
Naruto dodges this attack quite easily. And for those people bringing up Naruto's precog in this feat well you're wrong. Whenever Naruto's precog is in use Kishimoto illistrates it with an exclamation mark and/or a question mark ( !? or ! or !!) For example:
Anyway the main idea is that your feat is a one time only outlier instance that doesn't makes up with any other speed feat of Naruto at all plus comparing Naruto's DC or durability is bad reasoning.
There is almost no such thing as an inconsistency in the Naruto-verse (I'm not saying they are impossible, just highly improbable) due to the fact that it is a story of progressing power levels. And I already addressed this as well. Naruto in a much weaker form, hundreds of chapters earlier had already dodged and outpaced lightning speed attacks. That was in his KCM1 form and with each power up we see his speed, damage output, and durability increase exponentially.
Hell, with just the transition from KCM1 to KCM2 (or imperfect Bijuu Mode) he goes from being faster than lightning, to being able to do this casually with sheer speed:
Here he moves faster than Might Guy and Kakashi with his Sharingan activated, who are casually hypersonic as well, can perceive. He also deflects away bijuu bombs and they have high end speed feats in the four and five digit mach (they have been calc'd, not by myself but by others). Bijuu bombs were able to travel the distance of two countries in mere seconds and yet Naruto deflected them with sheer speed before the could move a couple hundred feet.
And this is only his fourth most powerful transformation, he still has three more after this one. So to suggest that he couldn't have reached lightspeed after three transformations when he could casually do this doesn't sound as logical now does it?
Now show me Naruto having any other speed feat that's above 3 digit Mach, some mid and high relativistic feats to suggest a healthy scaling for Naruto unless you can provide a handful of high relativistic or light speed feats which is the least you should be doing Naruto's speed jumping from 3 digit Mach to Mach 880991 is a ridiculous outlier.
I don't have to show feats for Naruto being relativistic because I already given most of his quantifiable ones, but what I can do is give feats for a character who is slower than EoS Naruto, 8th Gate Guy.
Everyone knows the whole Might Guy distorting space thing (which was the speed of light if you use simple physics)
Here we have Might Guy moving at lightspeed (I'll give you the link where I go into depth on this feat later on), and Madara is clearly reacting to him. He can perceive him just fine and is quick enough to form thoughts as well...
Naruto was so fast IN SAGE MODE (probably his weakest transformation) after his final power increase that Madara (who had just reacted to a lightspeed attack the chapter before) couldn't react to him or perceive his movements:
Remember that Madara was also so fast that 7th Gates guy couldn't land a hit on him and 8th Gate Guy (barring the night moth) needed assistance from a teleporter and a teleportation technique just to be able to land a hit on him. And here we have Naruto outright blitzing him.
Try to justify it through Naruto's power progress? Naruto's DC and durability always had healthy growing rate, he didn't jumped from his street level self into his current EOS one you know he was mountain buster then become multi mountain and it continued like this unlike what you are trying make out of his speed.
The problem is Naruto and Sasuke's power-up was indeed that big of a jump and wasn't consistant at all with the rest of his powerups.
Lets just look at how big of a jump all of his stats took when he went from Bijuu Sage to Rikudo Sage.
- Energy Output: Multi-Mountain/Mountain Range Level to Continent level and the collision of his and Sasukes attacking shaking the planet
- Durability: Multi-Mountain level to Moon Level
- Striking: Probably Mountain Level to overcoming a beam that split the moon with a strike and his steam release shaking Kaguya's dimension
- Speed: Massively hypersonic to lightspeed
I say the jump in speed is pretty damn consistant with all of the other physical stat boost that he received don't you think?
What falling glass? You see Dante lifting the sword which results in the glass ceiling destroyed and the broken pieces starts falling down but the second Dante starts swinging his Alastor everything seems frozen in air then the instant he stops and the camera return to real time motion the glass pieces fall down. I don't see what that demonstration contradicts with the statement
The pieces of glass are falling in slow motion... Someone swinging at mach 300+ would swing thousands of times before those peices could even move a single millimeter that is clearly not what's happening.
but let me ask you this what makes you say its a hyperbole? Dante already has tons of double digit Mach feats from his far more weaker DMC3 incarnation for healthy power growth not to mention he goes off and lighting times in that very game which is all the back up feat he needs
If by "tons of double digit feats" you mean one feat of running down a tower then sure. lol And I'd love to see Dante lighting timing because the only time Dante tried to lightning time in cut scenes he failed hard.
Because that's the last appearance of Vergil in canon time line. By your logic I can go off and assume this is Part 1 Sasuke because OP doesn't says its EOS Sasuke
If you want to use that basically featless Nelo anglo vergil then go ahead. Only, remember that Alastor attacks are far faster than Vergil's via game play and even in cut scenes he only ever dodged a single swing that was not even amped with electricity lol
Hold on do you want to debate on light speed Naruto or what? Anyway I don't see Naruto someone who has precog won't able to dodge an attack beforehand so why don't you start from there and try giving your feat a proper standing
If you actually read my very first post you will see that I don't believe Naruto to be light speed. However I'm against hypocrisy and people such as yourself calling Dante light speed to FTL based on basically the same reasoning. Also, your precog argument fails for two reasons
1) You are assuming that Naruto knew the attack was coming when nothing proves he did.
2) Two precog powers negate each other and Madara has the same Bijuu chakra and same Sage mode as Naruto.
Your point? You asked for what is the difference between people who say Dante is FTL and Naruto is FTL and I gave your answer
My point is that you arguments makes no sense. You are arguing that naruto isn't light speed because he doest have other feats yet at the same time you claim that Dante is light speed even though he has no feats implying that he is even close to that speed.
This sentence here is all I need to know about you to not argue with you on a VG character or subject as you don't even know the difference between game mechanics and gameplay
So instead of addressing the actual point you base your answer on my choice of words ? lol Talk about grasping at straws. You can call it whatsoever you want at the end of the day my point still stands.
You do realize the word ''infamous'' stands for smt that has bad reputation right? We know which parts of databooks are used here on CV
And you do realize that changes absolutely nothing to my point right ?
How do I contradict myself when you fail to realize the actual standing of the examples?
> Tries to downplay the size of the countries by claiming that normal humans crossed them on foot.
> Gets a rebuttal explaining that superhuman characters took days to cover the distance.
> Starts arguing against the use of characters speed/time to determine size
> lol
Even a kindergarten child would realize the blatant contradiction in your previous post.
This is quite funny coming from a guy who fails at telling the difference between these two and tries to justify his claim through this very same method method
The sad part is that, unlike you who tried to downplay the size, you won't find any of my posts using the country crossing feat to determine any kind of speed. You really need to work on your reading/comprehension skills... as well as your memory. lol
What? Of course those countries would be visible across the curvature of the said planet . Funny part is you talk as if Naruto world is not a fictional planet but actually a one that is identical to our own in size.
So basically, you are now claiming that Naruto world isn't Earth-sized ? lmao
lol Are you even trying? First off all your missing point is I am not trying to use this as a measuring method to use it on a character's speed as essentially my examples were meant to show the extreme inconsistency that you get when you regard combat speed of a character as his traveling speed. So you see what screws the thing up is the utilization of superhuman combat speed that fictional characters constantly demonstrate
It's hilarious that you are using expression such as "are you even trying" when each of your sentences fails even harder than the previous. lol
First off, I'm not missing anything, you are the one who illogically tried to use Luffy and Goku COMBAT SPEED to establish that them taking hours to cross a distance, which is TRAVEL SPEED, makes the crossed distance extremely large.
#Fail1
Second, you still fail to realize that unlike with the provided examples of Luffy and Goku, using the shinobi's TRAVEL speed to show the distance works perfectly fine because we are using TRAVEL speed which they displayed to be faster than the eye can see during that travel.
#Fail2
while in Tazuna's case there is no superhuman speed involved that contradicts the movement speed of the said person/group. Tazuna is a normal human with normal human capabilities so obviously they moved as fast as a normal human can move
Except that, ignoring the fact that you are using a very early series instance when nothing was established yet, you once again fail because we have no idea where the wave country is located, what means of transport they used or how long it took them to cross the distance. So unquantifiable feat lol
lol and why is that a lame reason? If there is anything lame here its your response.
Oooh looks like someone jimmies have been rustled lmao
Now first of all those demons Lady defeated were the most weakest ones among the lesser enemies let alone the bosses Dante fought in the process. I am not even getting into how Dante had to constantly had to solve puzzles which is a constant gameplay element you see in action games but most importantly is your case even legit? I mean in all the cutscenes you see Dante he casually walks with no intention of hurrying up all the while goofing around in each and every possible situation
Lol lets just overlook how you failed to realize that was an obvious joke and address the points nonetheless.
Using your dear "game play" nearly all of the demons have the same speed so the first point is moot. The second point is also moot because none of the puzzles were particularly hard so unless Dante is indeed an idiot there is no reason for him to take that long. And the final point is equally moot because neither Naruto nor Sasuke felt any need to hurry up when crossing those countries either.
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