US Marines vs Clone Troopers

what type of clones and how many? @therevanchistreturns

Clones of course.

Clones would stomp them.

Well, considering the Marines are more accurate and their armor is probably more effective...

Oh, wait... That's Stormtroopers.

Clones easy.

clones win

Marines take it, assuming the numbers are even. With the light machine gun and the automatic shotgun, they can practically saturate the rooftop with firepower, and overrun the clones.

Clones recruit Sev, Scorcher, Boss, and Fixer who single handedly stomp.

Clones

In the context of this battle, that's absurd. They're too exceptional, too deviant to be considered. It's far more reasonable to assume that the clones are each one of the billions of regular frontline troops.

Uh, Clones stomp.

@EveryoneWhoSaysTheClonesWin

Any particular reason why? Did you consider the combat environment and weapons being used, or did you just choose the clones because they're from science fiction/fantasy?

The Clones. Superior Technology, better armor, (arguably) better training. Thats usually how these things go.

Question to op though. Why Colt 733s? US Marines are issued M-16A4s, M-4s or in really tight quarters Mk18CQBR. Only the airforce uses 733's, and thats mainly for budgetary reasons. Just sayin.

@darthmummy:

The clones all come from Jango Fett's DNA & he was one of the greatest warriors in a warrior culture, some were trained directly by him as well, the other clones were trained by Mandalorians. Their armour is superior, their weaponry is superior, and they were trained from birth to be soldiers.

Exactly my point. Clones stomp.

Clones get challenged by Battle Droids on all the time. Marines wins. :P

Uh, clones stomp, hard. Bullets would bounce off of their armor and their weaponry is monumentally superior. Their tech advantage is massive. And on top of that, they share the genetics of someone who has performed feats of strength and speed well beyond what a normal human can pull off, so forget getting close to them.

Can someone lock this?

@jedixman @saren @god_spawn @renchamp

I feel unamerican after this poll

And clone troopers have terrible aim!

those were storm troopers though

Only an early group of commandos was trained by Jango Fett. Hardly representative of the whole. This isn't a contest with Force Recon or MARSOC. The battle is regular marines vs. regular clone troopers.

Most of the clones' tech advantage is irrelevant to the battle. Yes, their armor has advanced long distance target recognition and air conditioning/air supply for alien atmospheres, which they can use to survive in the vacuum of space, but that's all dead weight on an NYC rooftop. It's clear that utility was the priority when designing the clone trooper armor, and not protection, for it hasn't been shown to be very effective against weapons other than blasters and explosives (by far the most common infantry weapons of the clone wars). Have you seen that episode of The Clone Wars where some tribal aliens on a frozen planet pierce the armor with spears? I'm not convinced that bullets would simply bounce off, especially with the amount of firepower the marines have.

And yes, the clones have the genes of Jango Fett, but they've never been shown to share his raw physical power. Besides, much of Fett's success comes from his special equipment and unique experience as a Mandalorian mercenary. He knows things that they don't teach the clones, except in the case of special units, as indicated above.

@darthmummy:

Most of the clones' tech advantage is irrelevant to the battle.

Being able to shrug off bullets, and using weaponry that is over twenty millennia more advanced than what the marines have access to is irrelevant?

It's clear that utility was the priority when designing the clone trooper armor, and not protection, for it hasn't been shown to be very effective against weapons other than blasters and explosives (by far the most common infantry weapons of the clone wars).

Blasters and explosives.. which are both more powerful than bullets. There's a quote stating even the most basic armor is bulletproof in SW, actually. @wolfrazer

Have you seen that episode of The Clone Wars where some tribal aliens on a frozen planet pierce the armor with spears? I'm not convinced that bullets would simply bounce off.

TCW tends to ignore continuity like that.

And yes, the clones have the genes of Jango Fett, but they've never been shown to share his raw physical power.

They don't have to, it's literally built into them.

Besides, much of Fett's success comes from his special equipment and unique experience as a Mandalorian mercenary. He knows things that they don't teach the clones, except in the case of special units, as indicated above.

Uhm, none of that helped him kick down a durasteel door, dodge blaster bolts, throw larger-than-human species across rooms ect. Clones themselves have dodged blaster bolts on the regular, just go watch a few episodes of TCW or OCW.

@i_like_swords: An weaponized explosion from Star Wars may contain more energy than a bullet in flight, but that doesn't mean that the clones' concussion-proofed armor is also bulletproof. The bullet concentrates its energy into a small space to puncture whatever it was shot at, and the armor has been shown to be puncturable. Also, I don't think it's valid to assume that the clones can do everything Jango Fett can, despite the assumption not being supported by the hundreds of media that clone troopers have appeared in (I don't think the clones dodge bullets, rather they anticipate an attack and dive for cover).

@darthmummy: What makes the clones armor bulletproof is that it's bulletproof.

It is valid, because they are identical to him in every way. And like I said, they have dodged blaster bolts. They perceive and then dodge them in several episodes of TCW.

You say it's bulletproof and you say that they are identical to Jango Fett, but I don't see it demonstrated in media. Instead, I see clone troopers occasionally outfoxed by battle droids and stabbed to death by tribesmen. If they can dodge blaster bolts, it's because they apparently move slower than bullets.

Their education may give them more of a mind for strategy than the average marine, but this is a quick and brutal close quarters firefight on a rooftop. The marines don't have blasters, but they do have more firepower in the form of a machine gun.

I propose a new battle that will better reflect the organization of these forces.

A Marine Corps squad, in theory, consists of three fireteams of four, each of which armed with three M16's and one M249, all led by a Sergeant. That's 13 marines total. Ten riflemen (three grenade launchers among them) and three light machine guns.

A clone trooper squad of the Grand Army was usually made up of ten clone troopers, including the commanding sergeant. They'll predominantly use DC-15A rifles, since that was standard issue for clones, though many prefer the lighter, shorter range D-15S (their analogue for the M16/M4 dichotomy). Since the clones will be at a numerical disadvantage, we'll say that they've absorbed three more troopers that were separated from their unit. In total: 13 clone troopers (ten DC-15A's, three DC-15S's).

The battle takes place during the day, at street level in an urban setting somewhat like New York City and Coruscant, with lots of walls, doors, side streets and destroyed vehicles. Both sides have grenades.

@i_like_swords:

These various primitive slugthrower weapons are almost never used by modern armies, due to their ineffectiveness against projectile shielding and even the weakest modern armor. - Taken from Star Wars Sourcebook

In short, there's a reason why Slugthrowers(akin to what Earth uses) aren't used in the armies of SW, they are archaic/outdated. Before ya bring up that the Slugthrowers in SW are only musket based, nope, there are fully automatic Slugthrower weapons, shotguns and so on.

Blasters though are just far superior, the only way to have a relevant Slugthrower weapon, is if you get it manufactured from a blaster corporation which would give you a Slugthrower that would achieve the same power output as a standard heavy blaster....but then at that point it's pointless, because you gotta carry around cumbersome ammo.

Infact really, the development of blasters actually helped Slugthrowers, because people stopped wearing armor because there isn't any known armor that could stop a full direct power blaster shot(exclusion of experimental/highly made quality armor, usually reserved for the more elite troops of the SW armies and so on), so it was pointless to wear the armor.

@darthmummy:

It's still a Clone trooper win.

Ignore the advanced weaponry, ignore the Clones armour's ballistic resistance (which admittedly is hard to quantify).

The Clone's armour contains huge amounts of tech- sensors, cameras, audio and video link to all squad members.

The Clone's have been trained from birth. Like you said earlier- they're not up against Force Recon, just regular Marines. Even if you lucked out and got a squad of career soldiers, they'd have maybe 5-8 years training even being generous. That's nowhere near equivalent to the constant daily training the Clones would have received.

It's all great being proud of the Marines, but they just don't stack up against this fictional enemy.

Yeah, I think the clones' advantages are compounded as the firefight gets larger and more complex. After all, they were bred to fight a galactic war. Their communications apparatus is a big help, not to mention the fact that they all know how each other think (I guess in this regard, all being clones of the same guy isn't such a disadvantage), and as you said, their entire lives are spent preparing for war. Might have to give it to the clones in a scenario where there's more room to adapt and adjust.

@darthmummy:

Even in a straight out open area firefight their tech is too much of a plus. Right now DARPA and other similar places are trying to make similar comms rigs.

Whoever can get the best command and control of the battlefield just about always wins.

Agreed. But control is achieved through agency, which is tied to firepower in a firefight. This is why I placed so much emphasis on the weapons. Assuming the clones aren't bulletproof, I still think the marines have a decent chance (a minority of victories perhaps).