TOAA - Gen. Discussion

#1 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (662 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

If Odin didn't consider the TOAA worthy to lift Mjolnir, would the TOAA be incapable of doing so? Wouldn't that make the TOAA less than omnipotent? How would that work?

#2 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (2986 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

The paradox would destroy Marvel, therefore killing TOAA, therefore, TOAA isn't omnipotent, therefore, Odin>>TOAA, therefore, RKT>>Odin>>>TOAA, therefore, Thor can destroy any character.

Get it?

#3 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

Actually even if Odin didn't consider TOAA worthy he could lift it anyway because TOAA is more powerful than Odin. its not a paradox its a simple fact that TOAA is far, Far more powerful than the power holding the hammer down. Odds are beings such as Galactus and Living Tribunal would also be capable of lifting it without Odin decreeing them worth because despit him being a sky father he isn't really on a level where he could even judge their worth.

#4 Posted by JediXMan (23389 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Actually even if Odin didn't consider TOAA worthy he could lift it anyway because TOAA is more powerful than Odin. its not a paradox its a simple fact that TOAA is far, Far more powerful than the power holding the hammer down. Odds are beings such as Galactus and Living Tribunal would also be capable of lifting it without Odin decreeing them worth because despit him being a sky father he isn't really on a level where he could even judge their worth.

This.

#5 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (13933 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@joshmightbe said:
Actually even if Odin didn't consider TOAA worthy he could lift it anyway because TOAA is more powerful than Odin. its not a paradox its a simple fact that TOAA is far, Far more powerful than the power holding the hammer down. Odds are beings such as Galactus and Living Tribunal would also be capable of lifting it without Odin decreeing them worth because despit him being a sky father he isn't really on a level where he could even judge their worth.
This.

Think of it like a magic spell cast by Odin on Mjolnir. If the person or character is more powerful than the spell then they override it.

#6 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

Basically Odin may seem all powerful when compared to Hulk or Thor but TOAA is Marvel's God. (Yes there is a celestial that also calls himself the one above all but thats not who we're talking about here)

#7 Posted by jloneblackheart (5268 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

The omnipotence paradox.

Could God create a weight he couldn't lift? Either way, there would be something he couldn't do.

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#8 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: But this isn't a paradox, TOAA is more powerful than the magic used to keep people from lifting it therefore it couldn't affect him so it simply wouldn't matter if Odin thought he was worthy or not.

#9 Posted by jloneblackheart (5268 posts) - 6 months, 6 days ago - Show Bio

@joshmightbe I know. I just like pointing that out whenever I can.

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#10 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (662 posts) - 6 months, 5 days ago - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

Do you think Mr. Mxy, Mad Jim Jaspers, or Bruce Almighty could lift the hammer? I was told that they probably couldn't. I was also told that power is irrelevant for this; Odin's decision is final, and one can only reverse this if they alter reality somehow.

@jloneblackheart: Logically impossible concepts are non-existent 'things.' If God can't make a square circle, this doesn't make Him less than omnipotent, since a square circle is not a thing. It is logically impossible for God to create a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it.

#11 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 5 days ago - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256: I bet Mxy could but as for the rest they've never shown any thing to make me believe they were more powerful than Odin. I only say Mxy could because he seems to be on that Bugs Bunny level of reality warping. Also Bugs could totally lift the hammer, but only if it was funny.

#12 Posted by jloneblackheart (5268 posts) - 6 months, 5 days ago - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256: I don't understand how that is logically impossible. It's a paradox, not an impossibility. As for both, it points out that our level of understanding cannot comprehend the omnipotent. An omnipotent being should understand and command concepts we are unable to grasp, such as a square circle or a color we cannot conceive of.

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#13 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 5 days ago - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Actually there are several species that can see colors humans can't perceive so that wouldn't be an adequate test of omnipotence, unless that's why my neighbor's dog always knows the second my daughter is about to go to sleep and decides to freak out.

#14 Posted by BlackReaper (592 posts) - 6 months, 5 days ago - Show Bio

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

The paradox would destroy Marvel, therefore killing TOAA, therefore, TOAA isn't omnipotent, therefore, Odin>>TOAA, therefore, RKT>>Odin>>>TOAA, therefore, Thor can destroy any character.
Get it?

TOAA's infinitely above every Marvel character. The reason why it can wield Mjolnir is because it can do anything. If not, then it's not omnipotent. This wouldn't result in a paradox, it would mean that TOAA's still the most powerful being, just not infinite.

#15 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (662 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: I have considered in the past that God (the true God, that is, and not fictional gods, such as TOAA) should be able to do even logically impossible things (or paradoxical), such as creating a square circle or making a banana both yellow and not yellow at the same time. But there are many theists who disagree with this, and they say that God's omnipotence means that He can do anything and everything that is physically possible. It is not physically possible, they argue, to make a square circle, or to add 4 and 4 and get 24000, and so on.

#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (16697 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart said:

The omnipotence paradox.
Could God create a weight he couldn't lift? Either way, there would be something he couldn't do.

the standard answer to that is god can create a weight he couldn't lift but then lift it anyway

#17 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (877 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@jloneblackheart said:
The omnipotence paradox.
Could God create a weight he couldn't lift? Either way, there would be something he couldn't do.
the standard answer to that is god can create a weight he couldn't lift but then lift it anyway

But if god fully powered, and it can't lift that weight, then he shouldn't lift it eventually, because that mean god didn't showed his full power yet.

#18 Posted by moondogy42 (48 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

(Yes there is a celestial that also calls himself the one above all but thats not who we're talking about here)

When i first saw this thread thats who i thought they meant ha,so could the Celestial lift the hammer?I feel like any "God"(Eternity,Death,TOAA etc) could lift the hammer because they are beyond magic but that those who are beyond the power of odin(weaker than those mentioned previously would still be unable to counter his magic e.g. A celestial.

#19 Posted by joshmightbe (19953 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

@moondogy42: I'd say that particular Celestial may be equal to Odin so I really don't know if he could lift the hammer or not

#20 Posted by Pyrogram (13306 posts) - 6 months, 4 days ago - Show Bio

If somebody like a weak galactus tried he would still be able to, and if he was on the verge of not being able to what would happen lol