Posted by sommyt (348 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has been called physically weaker than the juggernaut..i dont agree with this ..i feel like the juggernauts impenetrable forcefield makes him look stronger than he his,when thor negated this force field ..he would have killed juggy with one more punch... ***this was just a physical brawl ...NO MJOLNIR WAS INVOLVED!!!!just my thoughts what do u guys think tho???

#1 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@sommyt said:

Thor has been called physically weaker than the juggernaut..i dont agree with this ..i feel like the juggernauts impenetrable forcefield makes him look stronger than he his,when thor negated this force field ..he would have killed juggy with one more punch... ***this was just a physical brawl ...NO MJOLNIR WAS INVOLVED!!!!just my thoughts what do u guys think tho???

People with common sense know Thor is way out of Juggernaut's league in terms of l raw strength, bad writers and all.

#2 Posted by New_World_Order (12993 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is physically superior.

#3 Edited by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

#4 Edited by Teerack (5812 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

Basically this.

Cain Marco never got that much power very often, but Just think about how Colossus uses to turn all spiky and become ridiculously strong when he was Juggernaut.

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Juggernaut is by nature inconsistent since his powers are entirely based on the whims of basically a bored demon who just wants to be entertained.

#6 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@joshmightbe said:

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

Basically this.

Cain Marco never got that much power very often, but Just think about how Colossus uses to turn all spiky and become ridiculously strong when he was Juggernaut.

Colossus was already pretty strong , Cyttorack just added to what was already there. The mathematics are clear.

#7 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Colossus' base strength was inconsequential since Cyttorack has literally unlimited strength to give. He could have easily made Howard the Duck just as strong as he made Colossus if he felt like it. That's the part your not understanding, the power source is unlimited therefore it is possible for Juggernaut to have truly limitless strength but he never will since Cyttorack would find that boring and as mentioned he just wants to be entertained, he doesn't care about world conquest or universal destruction he just wants Juggernaut to amuse him.

#8 Posted by Teerack (5812 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@joshmightbe said:

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

Basically this.

Cain Marco never got that much power very often, but Just think about how Colossus uses to turn all spiky and become ridiculously strong when he was Juggernaut.

Colossus was already pretty strong , Cyttorack just added to what was already there. The mathematics are clear.

No not at all. There was a whole another level of juggernaut that Colossus would get to when he got to mad.

This was Juggernaut Colossus

When he got frustrated/inraged Cyttorack would give him a lot more power and he would have a second transformation

The power boost was so great when he transformed he went from equal to Rulk, to able to slap him around like a rag doll. It wasn't just become Colossus was pretty strong.

#9 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@teerack said:

@joshmightbe said:

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

Basically this.

Cain Marco never got that much power very often, but Just think about how Colossus uses to turn all spiky and become ridiculously strong when he was Juggernaut.

Colossus was already pretty strong , Cyttorack just added to what was already there. The mathematics are clear.

No not at all. There was a whole another level of juggernaut that Colossus would get to when he got to mad.

This was Juggernaut Colossus

When he got frustrated/inraged Cyttorack would give him a lot more power and he would have a second transformation

The power boost was so great when he transformed he went from equal to Rulk, to able to slap him around like a rag doll. It wasn't just become Colossus was pretty strong.

I hear and understand what you both are saying, but are you saying Cain Marko was never frustrated, if that was the case he shoud have underwent this transformation decades ago, which he hadn't. The killing part is that he knows Cyttorack inside out, or so he's been saying for decades. I'm sticking to my guns on what I said, it's the combo of Pete's strength combined with Cyttorack.

#10 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

#11 Posted by Teerack (5812 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

Beat me to it, but exactly that.

#12 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

I like to see a link or something where that is said, I agree with you on the infinity theory. Yet you still have an 2 examples of where Cyttorack has given power to two different individual. The first Cain Marko and ordinary human, and the second a mutant/superhuman and the result were as is. If Cyttorack's powers are given to the Hulk do you think there will be a power difference between Juggernaut Colossus and Juggernaut Hulk or even a Juggernaut Thor of course there will be a difference.

#13 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17919 posts) - - Show Bio

In overall power? sure. In terms of strength? na-da.

#14 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

Also, Cain usually used his powers for nothing more than petty robbery and bullying. Stuff that didn't require that much power.

He did have his moments though. In the Juggernaut one-shot, he has all his powers drained and is burnt down to a skeleton, but still lives through the power his rage gave him. There's also a story in an X-Men comic where the Juggernaut loses control and becomes so strong he literally punches through to other dimensions.

I think Juggernaut can top Thor in strength and durability most times, but Thor has a myriad of other abilities to call upon. I'm not sure if it was their first meeting or not, but early on Thor fought the Juggernaut. Unable to beat him through force, Thor opened a portal and dumped him in another dimension.

#15 Edited by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Well during the 8th day story line Cain developed the ability to shatter entire dimensions after gaining temporary access to the full power of Cyttorrack, don't know the exact issue number on when Cyttorrack told Cain he was unworthy but pretty much every interaction Cain ever had with Cyttorrack pretty much told you that he thought Cain was borderline worthless. With Colossus he was much nicer, well nicer by his standards anyway.

#16 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@joshmightbe said:

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

Beat me to it, but exactly that.

There was a street fighter animated series, where he had captured Ryu and put a chip on his head, he then pitted Ryu against Ken, during the fight and I kid you not he probably laughed for like 10 minutes seriously, I 've never seen anything like that before.

@joshmightbe said:

@evilvegeta74: Cyttorack never gave Cain the level of access to his power that he gave Colossus. Cyttorrack himself flat out told Cain that he never felt he was worthy at all he was just better than nothing. Basically Cyttorrack just liked Colossus more. As far as Colossus' strength goes if you add something to infinity its still infinity.

Also, Cain usually used his powers for nothing more than petty robbery and bullying. Stuff that didn't require that much power.

He did have his moments though. In the Juggernaut one-shot, he has all his powers drained and is burnt down to a skeleton, but still lives through the power his rage gave him. There's also a story in an X-Men comic where the Juggernaut loses control and becomes so strong he literally punches through to other dimensions.

I think Juggernaut can top Thor in strength and durability most times, but Thor has a myriad of other abilities to call upon. I'm not sure if it was their first meeting or not, but early on Thor fought the Juggernaut. Unable to beat him through force, Thor opened a portal and dumped him in another dimension.

Cyttorack is an evil being and the last time I checked robbery and bullying are forms of evil whuich would fall under the category of something Cyttorack may want. I highly doubt that the Juggernaut could top Thor in terms of strength, and as you mentioned in terms of other powers at Thor command he wouldn't be much of a factor, like in the Thunderbolts issue where he and some of the other Thunderbolts tried to escape, Thor almost killed him then, Luke Cage had to stop him. 10/10 Juggernaut would lose to Thor, unless there was some horrible writing going on, and we have seen a lot of that in 2012.

#17 Posted by AdamtheSubmariner (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Its kinda addresed in one of the last issues of uncanny x men(the previous volume) about how cyttorack prefered a hero to be his avatar as the villains always flee, but the heroes cause equal destruction and are always fighting

#18 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: You don't seem to understand Cyttorrack, yes he is evil but he gives this power so that his Avatars can amuse him, common robbery and bullying bore him. He wants them to engage in mayhem and destruction on epic scales he felt most of the petty crap Cain pulled was beneath him frankly. Also you don't seem to be getting that Juggernaut can be stronger than literally anyone else aside from the cosmic abstracts because his powers come from an infinite pool from and I say this as clearly as possible, THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF ALL STRENGTH, yes Thor is more powerful overall but Juggernaut has the potential to be the physically strongest being in the entire universe aside from the cosmic abstracts depending solely upon whether or not Cyttorrack feels like making it so.

#19 Edited by Teerack (5812 posts) - - Show Bio

There was a street fighter animated series, where he had captured Ryu and put a chip on his head, he then pitted Ryu against Ken, during the fight and I kid you not he probably laughed for like 10 minutes seriously, I 've never seen anything like that before.

...

Cyttorack is an evil being and the last time I checked robbery and bullying are forms of evil whuich would fall under the category of something Cyttorack may want. I highly doubt that the Juggernaut could top Thor in terms of strength, and as you mentioned in terms of other powers at Thor command he wouldn't be much of a factor, like in the Thunderbolts issue where he and some of the other Thunderbolts tried to escape, Thor almost killed him then, Luke Cage had to stop him. 10/10 Juggernaut would lose to Thor, unless there was some horrible writing going on, and we have seen a lot of that in 2012.

The reason Cyttorack liked Colossus so much because he was a hero which meant his fight would never ended, which meant he would never stop destroying things, which has always been what Cyttorack wanted. He wanted his avatar to destroy things. Cain on the other hands only had personal objections and unless there was money or a vendetta involved he wouldn't be out fighting/destroying things, so Cyttorack didn't like him. That was how Cyttorack explained it HIMSELF.

The rest of your post kinda just means you haven't been listening to us at all -_-

#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Also the Juggernaut in Thunderbolts has been severely depowered.

#21 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: You don't seem to understand Cyttorrack, yes he is evil but he gives this power so that his Avatars can amuse him, common robbery and bullying bore him. He wants them to engage in mayhem and destruction on epic scales he felt most of the petty crap Cain pulled was beneath him frankly. Also you don't seem to be getting that Juggernaut can be stronger than literally anyone else aside from the cosmic abstracts because his powers come from an infinite pool from and I say this as clearly as possible, THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF ALL STRENGTH, yes Thor is more powerful overall but Juggernaut has the potential to be the physically strongest being in the entire universe aside from the cosmic abstracts depending solely upon whether or not Cyttorrack feels like making it so.

Juggs engaged in plenty of mayhem in the MU. Also just took a glance at Cyttorack, it say nothing about him being the living embodiment of strength.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyttorak http://marvel.wikia.com/Cyttorak_(Earth-616) http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor.htm . I like facts but there is no such statement of saying that he is nothing more than a magical being/deity/demon , he is definitely not the living embodiment of strength, and I left you three links to check that.

#22 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyttorack is an evil being and the last time I checked robbery and bullying are forms of evil whuich would fall under the category of something Cyttorack may want.

"Evil" doesn't really come into it. Cyttorack would be pretty evil by our standards, but mainly he just wants people to know how awesome he is. Doctor Strange himself has used the "crimson bands of Cyttorack" on multiple occasions to subdue his enemies. Robbing banks would be almost an insult to him. That's why in the X-Men one-shot of World War Hulk, Cain initially gets completely owned by the Hulk, but then actually brings him to a standstill when Cyttorack allows him access to more of his power.

In the end, Cyttorack doesn't care if you're a hero or villain. If you're wrecking stuff in an epic way and letting people know that it's HIS power that's letting you do it, he'll keep the juice flowing.

#23 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

Cyttorack is an evil being and the last time I checked robbery and bullying are forms of evil whuich would fall under the category of something Cyttorack may want.

"Evil" doesn't really come into it. Cyttorack would be pretty evil by our standards, but mainly he just wants people to know how awesome he is. Doctor Strange himself has used the "crimson bands of Cyttorack" on multiple occasions to subdue his enemies. Robbing banks would be almost an insult to him. That's why in the X-Men one-shot of World War Hulk, Cain initially gets completely owned by the Hulk, but then actually brings him to a standstill when Cyttorack allows him access to more of his power.

In the end, Cyttorack doesn't care if you're a hero or villain. If you're wrecking stuff in an epic way and letting people know that it's HIS power that's letting you do it, he'll keep the juice flowing.

I understand about Cyttorack, I posted a saved statement by accicdent about Ryu and Ken to Teerack. I just don't believe Juggernaut is on par with Thor when it comes to strength at all. Cyttorack isn't the embodiment of strength, nor is there anything to support the fact that he can this to his avatars giving them unlimited strength. That's why I left the three links , if you can show me otherwise then I apologize for not believing Cyttorack is capable of such a feat. Yes he has givin Avatars large amounts of power at times. But at the end of the day Thor is a being who refuses to use his full strength on mortals. juggernaut has yet to face it.

#24 Edited by sommyt (348 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: understand how that term the living embodiment of strength is used....Hercules has been called the living embodiment of strength many times .even by his own father ..Thor or and herc are equal strength wise... I simplt feel like normal thor is stronger and more durable than juggs.....juggernaut just seems to be stronger than like everyone ca Iz of that impenetrable force field.....once THOR TOOK IT AWAY HE JACKED JUGGGYY UP BAD ...THAT JUGGERNAUT WAS SSO RELIVED WHE. THE FORCE FIELD CAME BACK

#25 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut has physically over powered Thor on a few occasions back when actually good writers were in charge at Marvel.

#26 Posted by comicace3 (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggs isn't always stronger than Thor but he can be, it just depends on how much power Cyttorack feels like giving him. Since Cyttorrack is pretty much the living embodiment of strength Juggernaut has potentially unlimited strength but I do believe Thor is more powerful over all unless Cyttorrack were to give Juggs his full power which doesn't happen often.

#27 Posted by New_World_Order (12993 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut has physically over powered Thor on a few occasions back when actually good writers were in charge at Marvel.

He's done it once, and that was an amped Juggernaut. 8th day Juggernaut I believe. It also may seem like Juggernaut overpowers Thor, because well while all Thor's hits are basically nullified by Juggernaut's force-fields, the same can't be said vice versa.

#28 Posted by sommyt (348 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: he outlasted him in a physical brawl.... Thats why i said there's a misconception of his strength because of the impenetrable forcefield that does not leave even a scratch on him even Thor used a god blast and he was okay the juggernaut that is...so the fircefield is what makes it seem like he is stronger....but I was saying that when Thor took away that force field and through his hammer away his strength and natural durability was greater than Juggernauts to the point that he would have killed him with one more punch