The Sad State of Comics Piracy—It's Worse Than You Think

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labarith

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#201  Edited By labarith
@thechessclub said:

@Sydpart2 said:

I do have a pull list. I've had one for a year now and I still need to get caught up on other stuff that's closer to current. But you still haven't made any point about back issues. I have a valid reason to use scans. I buy stuff when I can find it but there are certainly times when I can't and collections either don't exist or are only in hardcover and cost $30 and up.

I'm going to ask you a question and I beg you answer honestly. What makes you think you deserve to have a free comic just because you aren't willing to have it shipped to you? Because unless you are talking golden age, EVERY comic is available to purchase online.

Why are you trolling the people who down right admit that they're stealing?  That's like beating up on gay catholic priests for being hypocrites. 
 
What's at stake is property rights and freedom of information.  Talk about those, not some douche's personal inconsistency.
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Sydpart2

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#202  Edited By Sydpart2
@thechessclub said:

@Sydpart2 said:

I do have a pull list. I've had one for a year now and I still need to get caught up on other stuff that's closer to current. But you still haven't made any point about back issues. I have a valid reason to use scans. I buy stuff when I can find it but there are certainly times when I can't and collections either don't exist or are only in hardcover and cost $30 and up.

I'm going to ask you a question and I beg you answer honestly. What makes you think you deserve to have a free comic just because you aren't willing to have it shipped to you? Because unless you are talking golden age, EVERY comic is available to purchase online.

I don't want to pay $5 to $12 dollars (sometimes before shipping) just to get a comic that has been crushed or ruined in any other way from the idiots at USPS or fed-ex. The sites like newkadia who do a good job shipping at cheap rates are often out of comics that are...oh let's say less than a decade old, so trying to find a single or collections of issues (if I want the entire arc) is a pain because I then have to look through several online stores, which can take up a few hours and can often mean looking at spending around an extra 15 or more on shipping costs if I can't find someone who has a whole arc. Add to that the fact that you can't always be sure which online sites aren't BS and you're looking at losing a lot of money and not even getting the comic in the first place (I know because it's happened) Or let's look at sites like Atomic avenue, they are essentially a site that lets retailers around the states sell their comics online all in one place. Problem with that is stores that happen to have the only copy are "on vacation" or a story arc is spread up between different stores so we run into the problem mentioned earlier. I only use scans as a last resort, or if I just want to catch up and the paper back isn't out yet. 
I mean if we're going to say that scans are killing the industry because people are reading archives instead of spending a fortune to get the trades (if they are available or even exist) then why don't we hop on public libraries next? Mine has tons of trades (and even some monthly titles too) aren't they hurting the sales just as much? Sure they buy a copy, but that one copy is literally being red by hundreds of people. My library is part of an exchange program that will occasionally let other libraries from around the country check out their material on a long basis and that book can be on their shelves. I got one of them, a book from Texas was shipped across the country and loaned to me for three weeks, then put on my libraries shelf for the next three months. Isn't this exactly like file sharing? One person buys two copies of the same single issue book from their LCS for example. They make a scan out of one copy and post it to a torrent site, then they keep the other (since a good scan usually ruins the condition of a book) for their collection. The scan makes it's way to anyone who wants it, they probably read it once (if at all) and then either seed or leech it (a lot of people just leech scans). What's the difference between the torrent comic book activity and the library activity? I'm not gonna pretend I'm some kind of visionary protester my motivations for reading scans are selfish, I want to read the stories and I don't want to lose a lot of money doing it. What I like I make a note to buy what I don't enjoy I am relatively glad I don't own since most retailers don't do refunds. Let's say I'm interested in what's going on in a character's book but I'm told I'm not going to understand if I don't read the story that came before, and let's say that the story that came before is available but only in a hardcover trade that costs $30 or more. Let's say I buy this hardcover and I hate everything about it (this has all happened to me btw) what am I supposed to do? Ya know I'm sure gonna be wishing I got the scan. Why are we getting so up in arms about activity that obviously has been going on in public libraries across the country for years? I don't feel bad about doing some pirating from time to time because I try to buy when I can and make a reasonable effort to buy the comic if I like the scan. But the medium isn't exactly that easy to get ahold of, even for someone like myself who has access to a large number of retailers. 
I understand the point you're trying to make, I should buy the material instead of pirating it otherwise it could go completely extinct. But you're not understanding that I do make a reasonable effort to buy it but that that is not always possible. Scans are a last resort as they should be. I'm completely supportive of the platform that they shouldn't be hurting the new books market, but I'll make the argument that they really don't. It is a pain for anyone who isn't very very familiar with the pirate community to find any scans of new comics, or at least that's been my experience. With bigger events (death of Spider-man) it might be a little easier but still I have yet to see a scan for anything newer than a year come up when I do a basic search.
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B'Town

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#203  Edited By B'Town

@Rudyftw said:

You have to ask yourself why the comic book industry is being affected by piracy so much and why video games and movies are still keeping their head above water. I understand the economy isn't what it used to be, but people still pay for good and worthy entertainment. Comics are expensive nowadays, and 23 pages an issue is just not worth it. Especially with all the advertisements and 2 page art graphics. And the fact that most issues only come once a month. It takes animated shows 1 week to deliver a new episode each week, but for some reason most of the good comics are still riding on that monthly release. Not to mention how sloppy the writing has been lately, and how writers and artists change hands so frequently. Times are different and I understand many artists and writers have more than one project at a time, but if the industry wants to stay afloat they're going to have to step their game up. Somethings gotta give. People have to get invested in comics again, and if it takes a reboot to do so, then so be it. But it's going to take more than a costume change and a couple of tweaks to rise above unfortunately. The industry has to give in order to receive.

Am I the only one who thinks paying $2.99 for a book is a deal?

I read comic book reviews and previews. That is in fact one of the main reasons I come to Comic Vine, to educate myself on what books to buy. I listen to the recommendations of people whose opinions I trust like Sara and Tony. That way I get books I love, and I don't have to worry about wasting my money. And I absolutely believe my Secret Six, American Vampire, Wonder Woman, Detective Comics or Batman & Robin books is worth a measly three bucks. *shaking head*

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Maki_P

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#204  Edited By Maki_P
@blur1528 said:
Yea a jackass thats a mallrat hangs out alot at the bookstore. He does nothing but download shit. I hate him. He says "oh but I can't afford it" to which I yell back at him "THEN DON"T READ!"
Ok, so just because I have the misfortune of living in the 3rd World I'm deprived of Culture? That's Bull, we have the right to Read whatever we want; the problem is the retailers and publishers (the big ones) for not giving us a viable option
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FadeToBlackBolt

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#205  Edited By FadeToBlackBolt

People assume that comic sales are dropping due to piracy, and while that's probably correct for the most part, what no one is suggesting, and what is accurate, is that comic sales are dropping because most
 

MODERN COMICS SUCK.

 
I wouldn't waste the energy needed to pirate New Avengers, I can't believe there are people out there who would. 
Mass piracy is wrong, downloading an issue of Thunderbolts after you've bought the majority of Fear Itself tie-ins is fine now and then, but pirating every comic is wrong. People know this, but people don't care. 
Welcome to the World; it's a bad place.
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xscarletkittie

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#206  Edited By xscarletkittie

@ips said:

This issue this industry faces is the same one faced by the music industry and other industries who are rooted in traditional delivery mediums. All printed mediums are in decline; including Newspapers and magazines. As long as the product is made more easily available and is fairly priced, these companies can thrive. But the days are completely gone where the record companies can charge $15 a CD knowing that only 3 tracks off it are worth promoting and releasing. The comics industry has the same problem. No one is going to pay $5 for a printed comic if they can download it for free digitally. If the comics distributors released the books digitally for a fair price ($1-$3) and simultaneously as the printed counterparts hit the shelves, then the industry could turn around. People aren't inherently thieves, but consumers are smarter now and they know the costs involved, and they know when they're being ripped off for a comic book or a cd or whatever. It's not the pirating consumers that are the problem, it's the greedy C level execs heading these industries that is the problem. The CEOs steal from the pockets of the consumers; the consumers steal back. Cause and Effect.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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#207  Edited By briangermain

The word piracy and intenet downloading of stuff is such a misnomer it's not even funny, but I won't go into that here.  LEt me say this. The internet was made so that people could share information more freely and complete freedom of information was always the intent.  However you can't have something like the internet when people can institute commerce because they will. The bottom line here is Marvel and Dc are losign sales all over it's not because of internet piracy internet piracy ought to be a worry for them somewhat akin to what color underwear to wear that day.  If Marvel and Dc took a cue for their net commerce from other companies they'd reduce the price of their net content SEVERELY. when you can download e-books and what not for alot cheaper or music for 99 cents a track or so many apps and so on for under a buck it's really no surprise that Marvel and DC are losing some sales to piracy when they are trying to charge so much for a digital download. Or should I say just a digital load. want better sales? stop devastating us with the "Surprise" of killing off yet another hero. Why not kill off a villain for a change or better yet bring someone back that hads been dead for forty years or out of action for that amount of time. killing off human captain american then human torch then spiderman is asenine, why not just bench all of your major players and start over with second stringers, hell I'd probably be more interested in the books then.  Shake it up, rock the boat, no one wants to read the same rehashed stories over and over and over. DC's reboot looks like the new "Joke" to me. the costume redesigns look pretty much like the costumes they were all already wearing. what an extra zipper or two here and there and extra piece of armor plating?  Does superman really need armor plating? Maybe they are losing sales because of the multitudes of genuine indy books out there worht picking up or maybe because you can get a POD indy book mailed to tyou for about the price you'd pay for a Marvel download.  Marvel and Dc need to figure out the internet market and fast because it is growing and the reason they are losing sales isn't solely or even largely torrent downloaders, it's because of trying to sell crap with polish on it, no matter how shiuny it gets people it's still smells the same.

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#208  Edited By Maki_P

Ok, I buy every issue of Booster Gold I can get my hand on, even though I've already read the whole thing illegally. I'm in the process of purchasing the entire collection of The Sandman, because I loved it when I got it via Bittorrent. Now, would I've bought that if I hadn't already read them illegally? Heck no, money is scarce around here (when I worked for 1-800-FLOWERS I made $4.50 hour, and that was a lot of money) and I have better things to buy (like food). Basically Digital Piracy led me to pay for things I wouldn't have considered buying otherwise (same thing happened to my brother and his weird European Metal or whatever music).
 
Also I want to say that I hate to be the only representative of the Spanish-Speaking-Readership (Chicos, yo sé que están ahí). We exist, we want to give you our money, but you're not giving us a choice! Make comics at a price we can afford! Make comics in a language we can understand! Throw us a bone dammit!

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thechessclub

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#209  Edited By thechessclub

@Sydpart2 said:

@thechessclub said:

@Sydpart2 said:

I do have a pull list. I've had one for a year now and I still need to get caught up on other stuff that's closer to current. But you still haven't made any point about back issues. I have a valid reason to use scans. I buy stuff when I can find it but there are certainly times when I can't and collections either don't exist or are only in hardcover and cost $30 and up.

I'm going to ask you a question and I beg you answer honestly. What makes you think you deserve to have a free comic just because you aren't willing to have it shipped to you? Because unless you are talking golden age, EVERY comic is available to purchase online.

I don't want to pay $5 to $12 dollars (sometimes before shipping) just to get a comic that has been crushed or ruined in any other way from the idiots at USPS or fed-ex. The sites like newkadia who do a good job shipping at cheap rates are often out of comics that are...oh let's say less than a decade old, so trying to find a single or collections of issues (if I want the entire arc) is a pain because I then have to look through several online stores, which can take up a few hours and can often mean looking at spending around an extra 15 or more on shipping costs if I can't find someone who has a whole arc. Add to that the fact that you can't always be sure which online sites aren't BS and you're looking at losing a lot of money and not even getting the comic in the first place (I know because it's happened) Or let's look at sites like Atomic avenue, they are essentially a site that lets retailers around the states sell their comics online all in one place. Problem with that is stores that happen to have the only copy are "on vacation" or a story arc is spread up between different stores so we run into the problem mentioned earlier. I only use scans as a last resort, or if I just want to catch up and the paper back isn't out yet. I mean if we're going to say that scans are killing the industry because people are reading archives instead of spending a fortune to get the trades (if they are available or even exist) then why don't we hop on public libraries next? Mine has tons of trades (and even some monthly titles too) aren't they hurting the sales just as much? Sure they buy a copy, but that one copy is literally being red by hundreds of people. My library is part of an exchange program that will occasionally let other libraries from around the country check out their material on a long basis and that book can be on their shelves. I got one of them, a book from Texas was shipped across the country and loaned to me for three weeks, then put on my libraries shelf for the next three months. Isn't this exactly like file sharing? One person buys two copies of the same single issue book from their LCS for example. They make a scan out of one copy and post it to a torrent site, then they keep the other (since a good scan usually ruins the condition of a book) for their collection. The scan makes it's way to anyone who wants it, they probably read it once (if at all) and then either seed or leech it (a lot of people just leech scans). What's the difference between the torrent comic book activity and the library activity? I'm not gonna pretend I'm some kind of visionary protester my motivations for reading scans are selfish, I want to read the stories and I don't want to lose a lot of money doing it. What I like I make a note to buy what I don't enjoy I am relatively glad I don't own since most retailers don't do refunds. Let's say I'm interested in what's going on in a character's book but I'm told I'm not going to understand if I don't read the story that came before, and let's say that the story that came before is available but only in a hardcover trade that costs $30 or more. Let's say I buy this hardcover and I hate everything about it (this has all happened to me btw) what am I supposed to do? Ya know I'm sure gonna be wishing I got the scan. Why are we getting so up in arms about activity that obviously has been going on in public libraries across the country for years? I don't feel bad about doing some pirating from time to time because I try to buy when I can and make a reasonable effort to buy the comic if I like the scan. But the medium isn't exactly that easy to get ahold of, even for someone like myself who has access to a large number of retailers. I understand the point you're trying to make, I should buy the material instead of pirating it otherwise it could go completely extinct. But you're not understanding that I do make a reasonable effort to buy it but that that is not always possible. Scans are a last resort as they should be. I'm completely supportive of the platform that they shouldn't be hurting the new books market, but I'll make the argument that they really don't. It is a pain for anyone who isn't very very familiar with the pirate community to find any scans of new comics, or at least that's been my experience. With bigger events (death of Spider-man) it might be a little easier but still I have yet to see a scan for anything newer than a year come up when I do a basic search.

That...was an excellent reply. I see your point more clearly now and I appreciate your elaboration. The library analogy was an especially good point. The only thing I can say in rebuttal (and this is more just a suggestion) is that I've had great luck with Ebay in the past and you can often times find entire arcs and runs for a percentage of the cover price. I know auctions are kind of annoying but if you're lucky you can find books in a Buy It Now listing for just as cheap. Also. Milehighcomics.com has a very extensive selection. Just food for thought

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thechessclub

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#210  Edited By thechessclub

@B'Town said:

@Rudyftw said:

You have to ask yourself why the comic book industry is being affected by piracy so much and why video games and movies are still keeping their head above water. I understand the economy isn't what it used to be, but people still pay for good and worthy entertainment. Comics are expensive nowadays, and 23 pages an issue is just not worth it. Especially with all the advertisements and 2 page art graphics. And the fact that most issues only come once a month. It takes animated shows 1 week to deliver a new episode each week, but for some reason most of the good comics are still riding on that monthly release. Not to mention how sloppy the writing has been lately, and how writers and artists change hands so frequently. Times are different and I understand many artists and writers have more than one project at a time, but if the industry wants to stay afloat they're going to have to step their game up. Somethings gotta give. People have to get invested in comics again, and if it takes a reboot to do so, then so be it. But it's going to take more than a costume change and a couple of tweaks to rise above unfortunately. The industry has to give in order to receive.

Am I the only one who thinks paying $2.99 for a book is a deal?

I read comic book reviews and previews. That is in fact one of the main reasons I come to Comic Vine, to educate myself on what books to buy. I listen to the recommendations of people whose opinions I trust like Sara and Tony. That way I get books I love, and I don't have to worry about wasting my money. And I absolutely believe my Secret Six, American Vampire, Wonder Woman, Detective Comics or Batman & Robin books is worth a measly three bucks. *shaking head*

I agree completely

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blur1528

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#211  Edited By blur1528
@Maki_P: I ain't gonna tell you how to live cause I don't know you but that mallrat has money just doesn't wanna spend it on comics when he can get it for free
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Feliciano2040

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#212  Edited By Feliciano2040

@B'Town said:

I read comic book reviews and previews. That is in fact one of the main reasons I come to Comic Vine, to educate myself on what books to buy. I listen to the recommendations of people whose opinions I trust like Sara and Tony. That way I get books I love, and I don't have to worry about wasting my money. And I absolutely believe my Secret Six, American Vampire, Wonder Woman, Detective Comics or Batman & Robin books is worth a measly three bucks. *shaking head*

Unless you're reading Marvel, where anything that is mildly interesting costs 4 bucks, and most of the time it sucks.

And as much as you're right about Comic Vine, not every site can be as reliable, reviews and previews are an incredible way for some websites to make money if they're in bed with the right people.

Hell, even Tony and Sara, as other editors, "get it wrong" sometimes, both Tony and Matt are enjoying Green Lantern as of today, while I f***ing hate it.

@kimeraevet said:

Borders encouraged the same 'come, sit a while, flip through our stock' attitude and now they are bankrupt. I know, I worked at a borders till mine closed down and believe you me. However much it pisses you off to not be encouraged to read before you buy, it pissed us employees off more to be expected to just watch the bulk of our "customers" come in day after day and use us. Emphasis on USE. It's not a Library. That's the fact of the matter.

What the ... ?

So now customers are guilty for you people not putting a goddamn sign on your store that says "No Reading, This Isn't A Library" ?!

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TheCrowbar

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#213  Edited By TheCrowbar

@Feliciano2040 said:

@B'Town said:

I read comic book reviews and previews. That is in fact one of the main reasons I come to Comic Vine, to educate myself on what books to buy. I listen to the recommendations of people whose opinions I trust like Sara and Tony. That way I get books I love, and I don't have to worry about wasting my money. And I absolutely believe my Secret Six, American Vampire, Wonder Woman, Detective Comics or Batman & Robin books is worth a measly three bucks. *shaking head*

Unless you're reading Marvel, where anything that is mildly interesting costs 4 bucks, and most of the time it sucks. Even then, not every site can be as reliable as Comic Vine, reviews and previews are an incredible way to make business if you're "in bed" with the right person. Hell, even Tony and Sara, as other editors, get it wrong sometimes, both Tony and Matt are enjoying Green Lantern as of today, while I f***ing hate it.

Prelude to Schism... biggest regret of the year for me.

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piracy in my opinion is because of
1.50000 tie ins for each event
2.some countries get like 5 issues not every thing
ex wein my country get the incredible hulk bu not hulk so if i want to read hulk 
i have to either buy a overexpensive collected edition or go to a torrent
 
thank god i dont do this, cause if every duder downloads a comic which their respective comanies are really really having a hard time
i think its really sadistic to kill these comanies who were one of the first forms of entertainment

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Dallas_Raines

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#215  Edited By Dallas_Raines

They could try giving people the ability to buy comics in places other than shitty comic book stores that are always on the verge of closing down. You can buy games, films, music and books in a wide variety of stores, not just grungy specialty shops. Course, I doubt Diamond would ever allow that.

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Eyz

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#216  Edited By Eyz

At least they can still count on Trades sales, right? I mean a scanned issue in PDF is not a far cray from the original. But some people (me included) still prefer a much better TPB collected comic. Quality.

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#217  Edited By Westlife

I don't have a local store(stupid Henderson), but I can not illegally do a comic. I'll always prefer the real thing, but I'll at least do a PSN download. No piracy for me.

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johnnie619

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#218  Edited By johnnie619

Its just sad really people. i get the real comics i dont see the point in getting them online at all.
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#219  Edited By Migz13

Those who read comics through internet piracy and call themselves "comic book fans/ enthusiasts" should be ashamed of themselves. Seriously. Nothing beats reading a comic book in the most traditional and for me THE ONLY way, which is of course buying and reading it in your hands. Ink and Paper forever, nuff said.

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johnnie619

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#220  Edited By johnnie619
@ElBerto
so you are saying its good for us to steal comics online then?
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#221  Edited By Skald

Maybe they should experiment with a subscription model or something.

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#222  Edited By DanialCarroll

I will admit to downloading some comics here and there, but if they were available SAME DAY digitally, I'd happily hand over my money. I tried trade-waiting titles, but it's too long of a wait when everyone I know is reading them when they come out.

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#223  Edited By Aiden Cross
@iLLituracy said:
I think it's easy to shirk the fact that comic books sales are down on piracy. Sales may be down but it's not the sole reason for sales being down, we're not even certain that it's down due to piracy directly or otherwise. 

Pretty much my thoughts on it.
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They Killed Cap!

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I don't want something like this to affect the industry seeing as I am totally against electronic comic books.
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Rudyftw

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#225  Edited By Rudyftw
@B'Town said:

@Rudyftw said:

You have to ask yourself why the comic book industry is being affected by piracy so much and why video games and movies are still keeping their head above water. I understand the economy isn't what it used to be, but people still pay for good and worthy entertainment. Comics are expensive nowadays, and 23 pages an issue is just not worth it. Especially with all the advertisements and 2 page art graphics. And the fact that most issues only come once a month. It takes animated shows 1 week to deliver a new episode each week, but for some reason most of the good comics are still riding on that monthly release. Not to mention how sloppy the writing has been lately, and how writers and artists change hands so frequently. Times are different and I understand many artists and writers have more than one project at a time, but if the industry wants to stay afloat they're going to have to step their game up. Somethings gotta give. People have to get invested in comics again, and if it takes a reboot to do so, then so be it. But it's going to take more than a costume change and a couple of tweaks to rise above unfortunately. The industry has to give in order to receive.

Am I the only one who thinks paying $2.99 for a book is a deal?

I read comic book reviews and previews. That is in fact one of the main reasons I come to Comic Vine, to educate myself on what books to buy. I listen to the recommendations of people whose opinions I trust like Sara and Tony. That way I get books I love, and I don't have to worry about wasting my money. And I absolutely believe my Secret Six, American Vampire, Wonder Woman, Detective Comics or Batman & Robin books is worth a measly three bucks. *shaking head*

No, $2.99 for (if we're lucky) 15 pages of mediocre writing is NOT worth it. With $2.99 I can rent 3 video games or movies for 24 hours. Don't get me wrong, I spend a lot of my money on comics, but it's understandable why piracy is taking the comic book world by storm. I have a feeling that if we were to somehow stop piracy that comic sales would still be low. (For Example:) If someones offering you a bag of free lemons, chances are you'd take them. However. If someone's charging $5.00 for a bag of lemons most likely your gunna walk away unless you really love your lemons. 
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#226  Edited By TheGoldenOne
I doubt piracy is the cause of the declining sales. As some people have already said, most modern comics kinda suck. Add economic factors to the equation and you'll see why piracy is not really the issue here.
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iLLituracy

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#227  Edited By iLLituracy
@Aiden Cross said:
@iLLituracy said:
I think it's easy to shirk the fact that comic books sales are down on piracy. Sales may be down but it's not the sole reason for sales being down, we're not even certain that it's down due to piracy directly or otherwise. 
Pretty much my thoughts on it.
No one factors in the lack of quality or the flood of quantity. No one factors in how many tie-ins someone feels obligated to try and buy. No one factors in just general lack of interest in the medium. 
 
Along with that, no one mentions the genuine push from the scanners to get the people who download their scans to buy it if they like it. No one bothers to mention how much people who do download comics buy comics as well, or even the reasons why some people download their comics which isn't just about getting it for free but accessibility. 
 
Some people download to preserve their comics, some people download because they're not willing to blow tons of money on material that hasn't been reprinted or has been reprinted but don't have the money to buy a gigantic omnibus. Others download because they simply don't have the money, but when they do that doesn't mean they don't support the medium. When it comes down to it, I personally don't see how downloading comics is any different than going to your local comic shop or book store, taking a seat in the aisle and reading through a comic you can't get that week or probably don't want to buy because it's absolute garbage--which is common nowadays. I used to do exactly that as a kid, no one bothered me then, there was no representatives of DC or Marvel coming in the store and knocking the book out of my hand and telling me to buy something or GTFO. It didn't exactly bother the people running the store, either.  
 
Like I said before, it's very easy to shirk the fact that sales are down due to piracy, but it's hard to prove one way or the other. The way I look at comic book piracy is how I look at piracy with everything else, I know people who support when and where they can. They'll listen to an album or obtain material through the internet and buy it.  
 
When comics give their readers the quality they need instead of saturating the market with crossovers and gigantic events and relaunches and whatever else, then I'll be concerned. But I can't rightfully tell anyone that they're getting their money's worth when it comes to a lot of books that are on the shelves, so when it comes down to it, in reality, it's not "AM I going to pay for this?" its "SHOULD I pay for this?"  
 
You can try and blame the big houses doing event after event on the fact that they sell on piracy but frankly I blame piracy for the chain of big events after big event. Chicken or the egg? I don't know, try stopping the nonsensical crap you're putting out month after month, tighten up your ship, give us quality and we'll see if we can get more fans from behind their computers and into comic shops and a larger following. 
 
I say this because I personally KNOW people who have started and stopped reading comics when it comes to Grant Morrison's New X-Men and returned to reading novels. You CAN have that following outside of events, you just have to take your books as seriously as Grant Morrison's New X-Men, you have to have a stable of writers with vision. New X-Men compared to the latest runs on Uncanny and even Astonishing are two completely types of comics. The medium will never progress with stories like that. It'll stay where it's at. I'm not going to shirk the responsibility on the fans to buy a 3.99 comic instead of pirating it when the material doesn't reflect the price tag. 
 
That's my two cents, anyway. 
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iLLituracy

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#228  Edited By iLLituracy
@TheGoldenOne said:
I doubt piracy is the cause of the declining sales. As some people have already said, most modern comics kinda suck. Add economic factors to the equation and you'll see why piracy is not really the issue here.
This.  
 
Sums up what I was saying, anyway.
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Billy Batson

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#229  Edited By Billy Batson

@fesak said:

@Billy Batson said:

@fesak said:
Books, music, movies and comics can be entertained for free at any library. I don't think anyone sees that as wrong, but it's basically the same thing.

Well majority of the people pay taxes and the taxes fund the libraries.

Even though the music industry have blamed piracy for declining sales for a couple of decades now, as someone earlier pointed out piracy seems to increase sales. My advice is as follows; Stop trying to place blame on others and take responsibility. Stop fighting new technology and embrace it instead.

Is this a pro-digital comic book comment or a pro-piracy comment?

BB

The entertainment industry have tried to put blame of declining sales on everything but themselves for ages.I'm very pro-digital. You've got Spotify in finland, right? Something similar but with digital comics would work wonders. I'm also pro-piracy. I buy movies, music, games and comics for the majority of my income, download what i can't afford or can't find any other way. Downloading actually makes me consume more than i otherwise would since if i find something i like i buy it. It's a win-win situation.

You swedes made one of the greatest inventions ever. *sniff

BB

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skaterpunk97

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#230  Edited By skaterpunk97
I actually can't buy a lot of comics in my country so i need to read pirated copies.Fuck it man,i wish i could buy Marvel comics in this shithole i call my home.
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thechessclub

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#231  Edited By thechessclub

@Feliciano2040 said:

Borders encouraged the same 'come, sit a while, flip through our stock' attitude and now they are bankrupt. I know, I worked at a borders till mine closed down and believe you me. However much it pisses you off to not be encouraged to read before you buy, it pissed us employees off more to be expected to just watch the bulk of our "customers" come in day after day and use us. Emphasis on USE. It's not a Library. That's the fact of the matter.

What the ... ?

So now customers are guilty for you people not putting a goddamn sign on your store that says "No Reading, This Isn't A Library" ?!

LOL you think I would have been allowed to put that sign up? And it's a business dude. I'm not going to explain capitalism to you.

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BoOMbOoMpOw

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#232  Edited By BoOMbOoMpOw

In my opinion real comics are way better than digital comis .Ok when there is a digital preview of a comic I read it too but I would never buy digital comics . It is just a better feeling when you are holding the book in your hand instead of scrolling down and up and clicking infront of your laptop. I know many digital comic fans won`t agree with me but it would be better if there were no digital comics. then there wouldn`t be as much piracy as well ...but that`s just my opinion

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Final Arrow

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#233  Edited By Final Arrow

Oh at first I saw this thread and thought this.

argh
argh
grrr
grrr
woot
woot

But then I noticed you mean this

Boo
Boo

So my mind went back to this...as thats bad.

YAY
YAY
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Nod-Nolan

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#234  Edited By Nod-Nolan

somewhen between when the internet became prolific and now, some certain members of society came across a curious  thing known as "self entitlement". They decided that just because something was there, they should be able to take it without consideration the owner or creator.
 
The excuse that "comics aren't available in my country" does not wash. There is a thing called "international shipping" that a lot of companies do nowadays.
 
Simple fact is, if you can't afford something, you should miss out, plain and simple.
 
My fear is these "self entitled" are going to force government into doing something and eventually restricting the passage of date on the internet.

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speedlgt

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#235  Edited By speedlgt

this is very simple for me.........if it were not for downloading comics marvel and DC would not have got any of my money of the last 5 years! WHAT how can I be spending money if I have obtained comics for free???? BECAUSE being able to OBTAIN everything needed to catch up allows my ass to walk into a STUCK UP comic book store and buy a floopy book cause I know whats going on! I cant tell u how much I have spent on the comic industry in Trades Floopys ACTION FIGURES movies and other crap all because I was able to use the net and catch up and rejoin the geek universe!. if I not for that no money on marvel or dc so in this respect its not such a bad thing. 
 
Really the industry is 100% to blame for all this they charge too much for books. too much for trades and all the variations are another money stealer.  Books should cost 1.50$ thats it thats what there worth! 5 dollars for 10 min of reading is a total rip off. Hell a dvd at biglots cost 5 dollars sometimes less and its a full 2 hour movie. sooooooo 2 hours of entertainment for 5 dollars or 10 mins for 5 dollars???? you do the math  MARVEL DC drop the price and lets see what happens

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mrzero1982pt2

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#236  Edited By mrzero1982pt2

dont forget marvel also has an app on google chrome, but when it gets down to it, i am a fan of touching the comic, owning it. i still believe there is value in books. you cant take a computer to a comic shop or show and say "i have the first issue of x-men from 1963 on my hard drive! how much is it?" it is only, heck not worth half a penny on a hard drive! it is a speck of data! a grain of sand! i wish people would value comics more than download them. heck, i never heard of half of these sites until i read about em in this article. good job sara! 

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No_Name_

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#237  Edited By No_Name_

@Aiden Cross said:

@iLLituracy said:
I think it's easy to shirk the fact that comic books sales are down on piracy. Sales may be down but it's not the sole reason for sales being down, we're not even certain that it's down due to piracy directly or otherwise.
Pretty much my thoughts on it.

That's not what I said in my article, either.

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#238  Edited By Mahzian

Pirated comics are a great way for fans to keep up with titles they can't afford, of course this is probably hurting sales (although it could be argued that someone maybe more likely to get into a new series if it starts off free then go purchase a real copy).  
 
Piracy is wrong, yes, but like music I believe comics are an art form which the artists would prefer people to enjoy, even if they couldn't afford to buy it. Of course if everyone got it for free then there would be no support for said artists and then there would be no comics.  
 
The price of legitimate digital comics is a HUGE turn off, why buy a digital file which you can only view on a screen and has no resale value when you can get a hard copy for the same price? They need to take a page out of iTune's book and make digital comics much cheaper than traditional forms and very easily accessible, then they might have a chance of recouping some pirated losses.

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Nod-Nolan

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#239  Edited By Nod-Nolan
@speedlgt said:
this is very simple for me.........if it were not for downloading comics marvel and DC would not have got any of my money of the last 5 years! WHAT how can I be spending money if I have obtained comics for free???? BECAUSE being able to OBTAIN everything needed to catch up allows my ass to walk into a STUCK UP comic book store and buy a floopy book cause I know whats going on! I cant tell u how much I have spent on the comic industry in Trades Floopys ACTION FIGURES movies and other crap all because I was able to use the net and catch up and rejoin the geek universe!. if I not for that no money on marvel or dc so in this respect its not such a bad thing.  Really the industry is 100% to blame for all this they charge too much for books. too much for trades and all the variations are another money stealer.  Books should cost 1.50$ thats it thats what there worth! 5 dollars for 10 min of reading is a total rip off. Hell a dvd at biglots cost 5 dollars sometimes less and its a full 2 hour movie. sooooooo 2 hours of entertainment for 5 dollars or 10 mins for 5 dollars???? you do the math  MARVEL DC drop the price and lets see what happens
When comics were $1.95, Marvel released Untold Tales of Spider-Man. it was $0.99. 
 
Even though it was an exceptional book written by Kurt Busiek, it sold a lot less than the regular books and was promptly canned.
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#240  Edited By Joelislegend

Why pirate comics??
 
There are TONS of reasons. I personally love comics but prefer to read them on my iPad. Now here are my choices... Marvel has cut me out of their unlimited program, which I gladly would pay for. All other companies offer comics about 6 months to a year behind (Batman is still dead if you read DC comics on their iPad app...)
 
So what do I do??? I pirate comics.
 
Sad but true. Offer me a legit way to do the same thing I can do online for free and I will pay. But don't expect digital customers that prefer to read online to wait around months to read the same comics or to be ready to deal with that crappy Comixology app that crashes non stop.
 
Reading comics legit in the digital age is harder than reading them illegally, and the fact that companies seem to not give two shits about the digital market in my opinion means that they deserve to lose money to piracy if they are too naive to adapt.

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Zombielunch

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#241  Edited By Zombielunch
@Mahzian said:
Pirated comics are a great way for fans to keep up with titles they can't afford, of course this is probably hurting sales (although it could be argued that someone maybe more likely to get into a new series if it starts off free then go purchase a real copy).   Piracy is wrong, yes, but like music I believe comics are an art form which the artists would prefer people to enjoy, even if they couldn't afford to buy it. Of course if everyone got it for free then there would be no support for said artists and then there would be no comics.   The price of legitimate digital comics is a HUGE turn off, why buy a digital file which you can only view on a screen and has no resale value when you can get a hard copy for the same price? They need to take a page out of iTune's book and make digital comics much cheaper than traditional forms and very easily accessible, then they might have a chance of recouping some pirated losses.
You're way off about artists being happy people are just enjoying their stuff. Especially on creator-owned projects, which is really shocking to see pirated. That's money directly out of the creator's pockets. 
 
I understand the price of single issues can be prohibitive, but that is not a justification of stealing material. I can't afford a BMW, doesn't mean I can steal one just because I want to drive it. 
 
Hard copies simply are not the same price as their digital counterpart (outside of the first 4 weeks of the DCnU launch) so that point has no merit. iTunes does not make digital music "much" cheaper than traditional forms, not sure where you're getting that from. 
 
Pirating is damaging the industry, any excuses anybody tries use to desperately rationalize the fact that you are stealing make no sense.
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#242  Edited By okayla
@Migz13: Nowadays so many comics are digitally inked and coloured, so the optimal way to view them would actually be a screen. As that's how they were made and when the colours were chosen and designed under.
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perry_411

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#243  Edited By perry_411
@ltbrd said:
bittorrent and piracy is simply a by-product of both technology and financial means. Every time a new event comes out or a new series is started I always read posts, blogs and comments from people worried that they won't have enough money to cover a full series like Flashpoint, Secret Invansion and so on, or that they now need to drop an old series favorite for something new that's getting great reviews.  like every other form of entertainment these days comic books have become expensive to buy in bulk and with more and more titles coming out all the time (or the plethora of mini-series that DC and Marvel are churning out on a constant basis) that interconnect with each other its taking a toll on people's wallet's to keep up.  but low and behold there is a convenient (and free) way to do just that.....bittorrent. Is it illegal? No. Is it wrong? Yes. But it has become an economic necessity. Its easy to blame people point blank for using these sites but in the end the majority don't do it out of spite to the companies....they do it because they couldn't follow the stories any other way.  as was already pointed out DC and Marvel need to go the route of Apple and make digital comics a serious enterprise. It can't be that hard to get these titles out. All comic books today are digitally rendered from what the artist originally draws. They are all scanned in and I'm sure stored on the companies servers. Making these digital copies a mere fraction of the cost of a printed comic would do the exact same thing for comics that Apple did for music. You rarely hear a whimper out of the music industry (aside from the companies that actually make CD's) because all those artists are still making a killing through iTunes profits. Same thing is happening with books through Kindle, Nook and other devices.  DC and Marvel are simply behind the curve on embracing new technology and will continue to lose sales the longer they wait to use it.
Quoted for relevant points and deeper thinking than, OMG piracy is what is wrong with comic numbers.
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perry_411

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#244  Edited By perry_411
@Babs: How is uploading a copyrighted image legal?
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keith71_98

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#245  Edited By keith71_98

Since I have no attraction to digital comics (even though I've tried them on phone, iPad, and laptop) this isn't a big deal to me. But if you're going to threaten the availability of print comics for SOME of us, you have to be prepped for this kind of hazard. 
 
But, pirating a comics file is the equivalent to taking a print issue, copying it, and giving it away. Equally wrong.
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#246  Edited By anglon

You know I been buy comics off of that comixology app and I love it.
 
I just wish all the companies could come together into one online digital store and not 5 different ones.
 
It makes it less accessible in a way.  And I think that is what some of the problem is with piracy...accessibility. 
 
please marvel join up with comixology...dc did! darkhorse too.  please.

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Feliciano2040

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#247  Edited By Feliciano2040
@thechessclub said:

LOL you think I would have been allowed to put that sign up? And it's a business dude. I'm not going to explain capitalism to you.

 
Of course not, you wouldn't be able to explain to me how it is that you can't blame customers for following a company policy, the sad sad truth here is that whoever is at fault here it's Borders, you can't blame people at a super-market when they're offered bites of the new cheese, if you dictate the rules, then people play by them, if your company didn't want people to read the damn books, then tell the CEO and the board of stockholders to man up and to put signs on their stores, period.
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#248  Edited By CBattles6

The issue here is quality. Quality quality quality.
 
The reason cross-over events sell better is because Marvel and DC pull out the big guns. They put their best people on their most high-profile comics, and there's less of a question about whether the comic will be good. Maybe if half the comics under the sun didn't lay an egg once every three issues (I'm looking at you, FF #5), consumers would be more willing to purchase on a regular basis. We wouldn't have to wring our hands every month over whether a particular comic will be any good.
 
That's my biggest problem with the DC reboot—their fixation with the number 52. Do we really need 52 new comics? Why not choose 30 and put extra focus into making them really good? I guarantee that at least 15 of the new comics won't last a year, because of either a bad concept (OMAC), sub-par talent (Hawk & Dove) or poor execution (remains to be seen).
 
End of the day, I don't blame consumers for piracy. I blame the comic book companies. It's your job to convince me that your product is worth the price. With precious few exceptions, both DC and Marvel are failing on this account.

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kimeraevet

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#249  Edited By kimeraevet

Someone who works for Borders sent me a reply, to which I say this: 
 
Borders went out of business because they became overextended beyond the means to support themselves. It happened right after they bought out Walden Bookstores and were left competing with Barnes and Noble as well as Books-A-Million. When it came down to it those two stores stomped ass all over Borders. The idea that not being able to read before you buy is ridiculous. Reading is a economic and time intensive activity that requires some form of investment. This is the same problem with comics. They have expanded their lines beyond their ability to support themselves. To counter act this they sold themselves out to AOL-Time-Warner and Disney; a plan that hasn't worked. LCS' are still unfriendly to non collectors and many have eschewed away from comics to sell toys and fab novelty items. We all have been seeing this coming for years and its only now that many of the shop owners and publishers are understanding what it means. You can't expand  when your business and industry are hurting, at least not in ways that are alienating to your core group. Why is DC/Marvel publishing so many books? Why is are they pumping out more than 2 books per major character/group a month? Are the mini-series productive to sales or counter productive? Stop blaming the so called piracy or leechers or "users" who read for free as for why your business is failing. Review your business model and make the appropriate changes, stop placing the blame on the very customers you are trying to desperately to hook in.

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Tigerstriper

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#250  Edited By Tigerstriper

Quality, accessibility, and cost are three the problems. I do not pirate comics, and honestly my conscience would bother me too much if I tried. (Seriously I hate to even have overdue videos and library books.)
 
I can't afford to buy titles every month, and even if I could it's a bit of a drive to find a place that carries what I read. 
 
In the past I stopped reading books mostly because I hated the direction they were going. Some books I dropped because I didn't like the art. I've read summaries of some books and thought "Man if I was subscribing to this I'd want a refund."

With the economy the way it is, lots of people are cutting their entertainment budget. In the last year I've quit netflix, rhapsody, gamefly and even let my marvel digital subscription go. I just couldn't afford them. I keep up with what's going on with Comicvine, conversations with friends, and the occasional stop at the library.