The Joker

Do you think people are really underestimating The Joker?

I've seen a few threads of The Joker VS this and that, but there are certain heroes I think will definitely face a lot of problems. For one, I've seen in a animation that Batman have a plan to take out Green Lantern, with scarecrow's fear gas, it's to lure Green Lantern into a construction area (trapped man as a bait), and inside scarecrow's gas would keep Green Lantern immobile forever, as his power comes from will. I think The Joker can get his hands on the gas extremely easily, wouldn't you say so?

There's Spiderman, but doesn't anyone thinks that Spiderman is extremely vulnerable due to family members etc And the whole point of Joker, usually, catches innocent hostages that are of relations to the target, he killed Robin in one of the animations in an explosion, inside a warehouse after beating him, and this is what got to Batman, that's what Joker does.

If Spiderman's family or his girlfriend etc is taken hostages, it wouldn't be Spiderman kicks The Joker ass in a straight up fight, but either devise a plan, or have no choice but to comply with Joker and even some of his "jokes"... For one, if Spiderman was in the Dark Knight's series scenario, where there are two hostages held in two different locations, and as Spiderman will probably love both of the hostages (his aunt and his girlfriend...) so much...

Do you think The Joker is underestimated a whole lot? And the thing that super powers own everything without super powers is a bit ridiculous?

Why not?The same could apply to Lex Luthor.

ridiculous is to think that heroes like Spider-man and Green Lantern, with abilities far beyond Batman are unable to do what he does just because of a bit of fear or attachment. Green Lantern's main job? fight fear. Spidey's main job? fight emotional attachment. Most of their own rogues already use those tactics you presented as a way to win, still most of the times they don't, with a few exceptions. They are super heroes, that stuff is what they do.

Really I doubt scarecrow's gas, would affect Hal Jordan doesn't make any sense coming from that type of character(same for any other GL, but it really shouldn't affect Hal at all). But Joker could be underestimated yes, not only is he insane which makes for unpredictability which can be a nice factor in a fight but he is also very smart.

@Jorgevy said:

ridiculous is to think that heroes like Spider-man and Green Lantern, with abilities far beyond Batman are unable to do what he does just because of a bit of fear or attachment. Green Lantern's main job? fight fear. Spidey's main job? fight emotional attachment. Most of their own rogues already use those tactics you presented as a way to win, still most of the times they don't, with a few exceptions. They are super heroes, that stuff is what they do.

Hmm... I don't think you understand the fear gas, Scarecrow's fear gas isn't just simple fear, it strikes the most personal area of the target's mind. For that Green Lantern in the animation, his fear is StarFire and getting a once innocent girl into more and more trouble, and that he accidentally killed StarFire (his ex girlfriend) when affected by the fear gas, afterwards, he kneed with her body in his hands and mourn. Batman saved him at the end, as although this was Batman's plan, someone else stole certain aspects of Batman's database to see how they can defeat certain heroes. For example, embedding Kryptonite near Superman's heart and let the wound heal, enclosing and trapping Kryptonite in him forever, or tricking Flash into closing a trigger mechanism when Flash is solving a puzzle inside some sort of metallic box, the mechanism will explode whenever Flash stops running, and the idea is that Flash would run away as far away as innocent people as possible. I think the idea is Flash's rival the mirror person (whatever his name is), challenging Flash, and as his rival can embed himself in any mirror and create any illusions of himself, Batman can create a virtual image of Flash's rival etc

Okay, so that, in my opinion, pretty much means that ingenious human beings such as Batman can beat super powers, for one, fear gas targets specifically at the person, the usual fear Green Lantern face is a lot different.

When was Spiderman's job ever to fight emotional attachment :L

The Joker is a completely different matter, so different from Spiderman's villain, for one, his unpredictable and insane, even Batman himself cannot predict his actions, and Joker's "jokes" are a lot more... I think villainous would be the word. You know I really really doubt Spiderman would sit back, or save one of his most beloved hostages while ignoring the other etc

Have any seen the comic involving Superman and The Joker? Apparently, Superman was so mad he almost killed Joker, and Batman stopped him? It's to say that The Joker wanted Superman to drop into his level, to be kinda like blood lust.

@Wolfrazer said:

Really I doubt scarecrow's gas, would affect Hal Jordan doesn't make any sense coming from that type of character(same for any other GL, but it really shouldn't affect Hal at all). But Joker could be underestimated yes, not only is he insane which makes for unpredictability which can be a nice factor in a fight but he is also very smart.

Scarecrow's gas made Green Lantern think that he accidentally killed Starfire, at first in the movie animation I watched, Starfire was angry at Green Lantern and says that he keeps hurting her, then after accidentally killed her (due to Scarecrow's gas, it was exaggerated), he said he keeps hurting her, and unable to protect her, that's when he broke down.

That Doom movie was....ok, but really Kyle Rayner was replaced by Hal Jordan, the scarecrow gas was actually suppose to be used on Aquaman(who didn't appear in the movie) not GL and GL was hypnotized into being blind in the comic. This is why it doesn't make sense, for Hal to be affected by the gas he should be able to overcome any fear being that he has the strongest will out of anyone.

But wouldn't you say that Scarecrow's gas is special due to the fact that it targets the deepest psychological state of the target, instead of mainstream fear. I can see it makes a bit more sense, as main stream fear such as the world crumbling or the universe being attacked by another dimension etc In that scenario, I can see Green Lantern overcoming it with will.

However, with Scarecrow's gas, it targets specifically at what got him the most, correct me if I'm wrong but I think in the movie after he saw himself accidentally killing her with his ring, he removed his ring, losing all his powers.

@RandomThang: comics =/= animation

I think the GL ring would try and protect a Green Lantern from any harmful gases, being the most advanced weapon on the universe and all.

and Spidey's always fighting guilt and emotion. If his foes try to attack his relatives and loved ones, why is it any different with the Joker? just because he IS THE JOKER? sounds like a "cause Im the Batman" argument on the making

Well, I mean he did entered a cave, initially to save a worker, the cave itself is a trap with scarecrow's gas, people who breathe in scarecrow's gas doesn't even notice, it seems weird that he'll immediately realize something and his ring pop up some kind of shield. The ring relies on his will power and imagination, as the gas affected his mental state, it alters his will power, his will power is probably still quite decent until he accidentally killed her in his imagination. It's like entering a gas chamber with extremely discreet gas, sure you could conjure up a shield, but you already breathe it in.

Have anyone seen the comic where it includes Superman and The Joker? Is it right that The Joker almost got Superman to kill him (because his angry) to bring him down to his level? I won't be surprised if The Joker asked Spiderman to kill an innocent citizen in exchange for his loved ones, I won't be surprised if the Joker managed to get Spiderman extremely angry / upset / or insane, unlike any other villains.

Oh no he didn't kill her, I found it and watched it again, he failed to save her when she was held hostage in the cave, it exploded and she was buried under some rocks. Another one appears, Sapphire, and blames Green Lantern for everything, for ruining her, then he took of his ring, because the ring got her into the mess, as his ring is responsible for ruining her. The Scarecrow gas directed at both her and the consequences of the ring I should believe.

I agree Joker could give alot of people problems, but it all depends on who Joker is fighting.

Joker for me is the scariest villain out there because he is completly unpredictable and half time he does not even know what his own next step is and just makes it on instinct. Like alfred says in the dark knight he is one of those people who "just wants to see the world burn."

@TERMINATORXX said:

I agree Joker could give alot of people problems, but it all depends on who Joker is fighting.

By that what do you mean, are you the ones that I see saying "Spidy can punch through Joker's head, because Joker will purposely jump right in front of Spiderman like a retard." -.-

Joker would have to know who Spiderman's family was to go after them, if he goes after people he fights crime along side he'd potentially be getting himself murdered considering some of the less than stable super powered folks Spidey has teamed with.

@RandomThang said:

@TERMINATORXX said:

I agree Joker could give alot of people problems, but it all depends on who Joker is fighting.

By that what do you mean, are you the ones that I see saying "Spidy can punch through Joker's head, because Joker will purposely jump right in front of Spiderman like a retard." -.-

Could be

Also when people start screwing with his family Spiderman tends to get vicious

@joshmightbe said:

Also when people start screwing with his family Spiderman tends to get vicious

@Jorgevy: Kingpin could stomp a hole in Joker and Spidey damn near killed him over Aunt May

@joshmightbe: exactly, Joker doesn't know what he's getting into...