#1 Edited by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

I retain the view that it's only good and enjoyable in the Theatres. It feels very mediocre now --- the score is lousy and with some nice character moments, feels very forced. There were just too many jokes which took away from suspense --- the silly Hulk plot hole and Chitauri plot hole were annoying.

Online
#2 Edited by Dernman (17207 posts) - - Show Bio

Refresh my memory. What are the Hulk and Chitauri plot holes? It's been awhile since I seen it.

#3 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman:

  • Hulk is suddenly ''always angry'' --- just an excuse to get him to fight again
  • Chitauri suddenly die by generic mother-ship destruction --- lazy and uneventful

Online
#4 Posted by kgb725 (8640 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought these threads died with the dinosaurs.

I doubt MOS 2 could top it in anyway except mindless action. If they throw the entire JL in this film its only going to fail and feel to rushed it feels like X3 with the more the merrier attitude. A half assed attempt to outdo marvel will fall flat. The way that MOS divided opinions definitely wont change in the sequel especially when the Avengers comes out that year

Online
#5 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: The problem with The Avengers is that it really did feel lazy.

Online
#6 Edited by Godzilla_BK (71 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say it's only good in theaters.But I admit I watched it 4 times in theaters and it wasn't until I watched it home months later that I realized it's an above average movie, not a great one. The Hulk being always angry thing didn't really bother me, but I definitely agree about the generic mother ship destruction. I have faith that Age of Ultron will be better now that the movie will be able to focus less on assembly of the Avengers and more on the actual plot

#7 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#8 Posted by kgb725 (8640 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Besides your two plot holes what else was lazy ?

Online
#9 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@frozen: Besides your two plot holes what else was lazy ?

  • Soundtrack
  • Character development
  • Villain's motives
  • Action (MOS did it much closer to the comic)
Online
#10 Posted by Lateralus (1930 posts) - - Show Bio

That's a pretty small list of plot holes for a super hero movie (one of which isn't actually a plot hole....but I agree it was lazy writing). And considering MoS couldn't even beat out Iron Man 3....I doubt it will beat out Avengers 2: Age of Ultron.

Online
#11 Posted by Maximizer (149 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, just like MoS

(gotta balance it guys)

#12 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@lateralus: Oh, I have a much bigger list of the plot-holes. Those two just bothered me personally more than the others. Iron Man 3 betrayed the roots of its primary villain --- I'd rather have Batman vs Superman not do that.

Online
#13 Posted by JonSmith (4188 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:
  • Hulk is suddenly ''always angry'' --- just an excuse to get him to fight again
  • Chitauri suddenly die by generic mother-ship destruction --- lazy and uneventful

How are those plotholes? Anyone with a bad temper but the control to suppress it knows what Banner means by 'always angry': It can pop up at anytime, for any reason. Person bumping into you on the street could make you feel murderous. A mere mistake or slight agitation becomes implosive fury. But with sufficient control, that can be suppressed to merely a crushing tightness in the heart, not expressed, not exposed, easy to hide, it can even be forgotten when the mind is busy, but in the quiet moments, it's always there. Waiting for control to slip just enough to be unleashed.

Banner simply chose to fully release/express that rage in the Battle of New York, whereas on the Carrier his control slipped because of the explosion. This is also why he was able to freak out Widow early on: That was real, genuine rage. Just expressed with a tight grip on the rest of his temper.

As for the Chitauri, it's established during the Battle that they're at least partially synthetic: Widow tears out cords from the back of one's neck, causing it to spark, spasm, and fall. So them being drones dying via mother-ship is hardly out of nowhere. Could it have been set up better? Sure. Is it a plothole? Not really.

#14 Posted by kgb725 (8640 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Mos had way more plot holes than that even if the action was better the story was not. Loki wanted to rule Earth and be king thats his motive right there which has been shown in both Thor films.

Online
#15 Posted by Lateralus (1930 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's the issue with you pointing out character development, most of the characters were already developed before the movie began in their own movies. This story was about what happens when all those characters (who are developed) mix for the first time. And while The Avengers may have joked too much, I prefer it to the cold and emotionless MoS. The only thing I could actually root for in that movie was the tornado.

Online
#16 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: I disagree with your first analogy. It felt rather lazy in the way it was executed --- the end of The Incredible Hulk wasn't followed up well, The Ultimates (though the worst version of Hulk) handled it better. The way the movie did it was ''let's get Hulk to chase Black Widow and fight Thor'' and then dumped him at the end. It was an inconsistency.

Pulling out the cord of one of their necks should be a weakness individually, rather than destroying the mother-ship and all of them then dying, which is very flimsy.

Online
#17 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's the issue with you pointing out character development, most of the characters were already developed before the movie began in their own movies. This story was about what happens when all those characters (who are developed) mix for the first time. And while The Avengers may have joked too much, I prefer it to the cold and emotionless MoS. The only thing I could actually root for in that movie was the tornado.

Not really, no further development was actually made.

Online
#18 Edited by DarthAznable (10409 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@kgb725: The problem with The Avengers is that it really did feel lazy.

This was my consensus after watching it a 2nd and 3rd time. Everything is spoon fed to you. People make the excuse for there being a lack of development because that's the point of the solo movies. It shouldn't work like that. If anything they develop in the solos, stop at Avengers then go back to their own movies to develop once again. Come back for Avengers 2, they'll be in their character mind sets from the solo movies.

Online
#19 Edited by JakeN7 (14916 posts) - - Show Bio

I've enjoyed it less with each subsequent viewing, but it's still a quality film.

#20 Edited by kyrees (7989 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

Pulling out the cord of one of their necks should be a weakness individually, rather than destroying the mother-ship and all of them then dying, which is very flimsy.

there have been movies where destroying the mother ship was an instant death to its soldiers. though i can't particularly remember one right now, that premise has been used as well.

yeah, it maybe flimsy but seeing that it has been used before, the avengers just followed it.

#21 Posted by Lateralus (1930 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:

@frozen said:

Pulling out the cord of one of their necks should be a weakness individually, rather than destroying the mother-ship and all of them then dying, which is very flimsy.

there have been movies where destroying the mother ship was an instant death to its soldiers. though i can't particularly remember one right now, that premise has been used as well.

It's the classic Mothership Trope combined with the Head Vampire Trope.

Online
#23 Posted by Veshark (9285 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't really call either the Hulk or Chitauri situations to be 'plot holes'. One could consider them 'flimsy storytelling', I suppose. But neither one is really a gap or mistake in the story itself. I for one actually enjoyed Alan Silvestri's theme on the soundtrack. I even have the main Avengers theme on my iPod; though this is more of a subjective matter.

In terms of character work? It was decent. Not exactly the strongest suit of the film, but I wasn't too bothered by it. Cap learned not to trust SHIELD, Tony had his 'hero sacrifice' moment, Thor resumed his strained relationship with Loki, Widow and Hawkeye had the first piece of solid development with their conversation (s/o @risingbean), and Fury displayed a little of his manipulative streak, as well as his own principles.

I will concede that much of the movie's fanfare likely stems from the novelty of a live-action cross-franchise superhero teamup. There's no denying that it plays a big part, and putting that aside, the movie itself is by-the-books and nothing too revolutionary. Guess we'll just have to wait for Avengers 2 to see if Whedon can really do the plot and characterization justice, now that the 'freshness' is gone.

#24 Posted by danhimself (21257 posts) - - Show Bio

You're only good in theaters! !!

*runs out sobbing*

#25 Posted by TheMaskedMarvel (51 posts) - - Show Bio

Every movie is best in theatres. Not only because where you're watching it, but because the first time of watching/playing almost anything is more enjoyable with the first time. Don't think it's Avengers only.

#26 Edited by FearTheLiving (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Aren't you the same person who praises Dark Knight Rises? If so I feel like you don't have room to talk about the Avengers lol.

Also let's talk MOS why is it that a bred scientist is better at combat than a bred military soldier? Why is it Zod and his men can learn to use their powers in like 5 minutes while it takes Clark all his life?Why do people still not recognize him when he puts on glasses? Why does Clark think he's Jesus? Why is every logo for a company clearly shown as if some force wants us to see it? Why did Jor-El put his memory with Clark and not their mother? Why does Clark let his father stand there like an idiot while the tornado is coming? Why does Henry Cavil feel so wooden?

Anyone can nitpick anything.

#27 Posted by Skyfire (795 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are all these Avenger and DKR threads being made years after the movies came out?

They have to be doing something right if we are still talking about them.

#28 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Aren't you the same person who praises Dark Knight Rises? If so I feel like you don't have room to talk about the Avengers lol.

I don't see what TDKR has to do with this --- all it spirals into is the generic ''Marvel vs DC'' debate.

Online
#29 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (6024 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats not what your girlfriend told me.

Online
#30 Edited by FearTheLiving (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Because you're praising one but bashing another with the nitpicking of a 1000 suns while TDKR has easily way more plot-holes. This isn't a Marvel vs DC thing this is a matter of taste thing.

I don't think that helped either to stop the whole Marvel vs DC thing.

@frozen said:

I retain the view that it's only good and enjoyable in the Theatres. It feels very mediocre now --- the score is lousy and with some nice character moments, feels very forced. There were just too many jokes which took away from suspense --- the silly Hulk plot hole and Chitauri plot hole were annoying. I think Batman vs Superman will have an easy time out-doing this movie if it goes in the direction of MOS.

#31 Edited by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@feartheliving: I'm not solely praising the other. All I said of TDKR is that it's critically acclaimed when people try to say it's not. It's the same with The Avengers; it's acclaimed, I know that. My problems with TDKR aren't really the said plot-holes but other factors. With The Avengers, the problems I listed I feel hindered the story. There are 'more' plotholes and then they're bigger plotholes (Avengers).

Online
#32 Edited by FearTheLiving (5172 posts) - - Show Bio
Whatever let's you sleep at night bro.

@frozen:

#33 Edited by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#34 Edited by FearTheLiving (5172 posts) - - Show Bio
I'm sorry we were busy killing a city full of aliens if we need someone to destroy the city we'll give you a call :D

@frozen:

#35 Edited by myerlanski (1964 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: first, dude...that was hilarious...lol

Now to the point of the thread. I don't think Avengers is only good in theatres. Its the same film , its just once the wow factor starts to disintegrate. You start to truly examine the film and story.

I do agree that the ending felt rushed. I can't stand that mother ship ending to invasion films.

I felt Man of Steel was an absolute gem of a film. He made me finally feel on film that Clark was indeed alien. To get a good view of krypton. Its culture, politics,landscapes, technology, and its wildlife.

I think they played into his solidarity of being different well. It was a great mixture of Starman and the early Superman films.

I've always felt like how great it would be to be like Superman, but I actually got a sense of how difficult it would be for a being trying to survive in a world that potentially fears you. Like all films there are some inconsistencies but its a solid film in my book.

#36 Edited by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#37 Edited by RisingBean (5778 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Clint and Nat made the movie for me with their post Helicarrier battle scene. That was the most emotive scene in the movie and could make for a great bit of character development concerning Hawkeye.

And I still want my damned Hawkeye/Black Widow Origin movie!

@frozen

#38 Edited by SaintWildcard (14397 posts) - - Show Bio

@feartheliving: aliens? You mean the storm troopers and the main villain who got beat by simply smacking him around like a rag doll? Cus that's totally the same as a trained kryptonian army.....

#39 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: That's why I feel MOS dealt with the consequence of such an attack. They've clearly set it up for the next film.

Online
#40 Posted by RisingBean (5778 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Here's hoping. I'm looking forward to MOS2. I'm crossing my fingers and expecting greatness.

#41 Posted by Frozen (19646 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Maybe we'll see more of this.

Loading Video...

Online
#42 Edited by FearTheLiving (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehipkid: Hey when a bred scientist can take on their leader then an untrained dude with the same super-powers you start to wonder about that so called kyrptonian army as well. :P

#43 Edited by myerlanski (1964 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets be real three kryptonians is worse than the Chantauri aliens, at least the film version anyway.

Just one kryptonian can topple five skyscrapers falling into them. Besides Clark had no time as a hero prior to this. The Avengers had been doing their thing for a while individually. And Hulk wasn't exactly Mr. Conservative on buildings himself. Plus they did work as a team. Superman was by himself, against beings that match him. I got Clark taking care the Chantauri with little effort, drinking a martini. Sike just joking about the martini. Both were great films with different tones. I'm just excited be a comic fan and have these discussions.

#44 Posted by flashrobin (243 posts) - - Show Bio

Both films suck and The Hellboy films were better.

#45 Posted by TheMaskedMarvel (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@flashrobin:

*I didn't like both films and thought Hellboy was better.

#46 Posted by flameboy298 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe I'll have to see Man of Steel again I thought it was a average film that I enjoyed with amazing visuals,but nothing else besides that...

#47 Posted by myerlanski (1964 posts) - - Show Bio

The Hellboy films were legit. Can't wait for another one.

#48 Posted by flameboy298 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by RisingBean (5778 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: God, I hope not. Ugh TDKR

If Bruce and Clark have to fight, I hope Clark quickly squashes Bruce and the movie doesn't insult my suspension of disbelief.

#50 Posted by myerlanski (1964 posts) - - Show Bio