#1 Edited by Teerack (5221 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

This video looks pretty bias to me with all the names they made on Goku compared to Superman, and the theory they used to compare is quite ridiculous, using speed travel as combat speed and using Weight lifting feats which has nothing to do with combat except if Sups and Goku decide to make a Somo fight :P

now that's a silly way to make Goku looks weak and dumb, they made him stupid in that fight and couldn't protect his blind spot which is dumb, Goku never showed any weakness when it comes to blind spots and martial arts, in the other hand Superman was always easily taking by surprise :

also Superman's speed reflexes in combat are not faster than Goku's speed reflexes like shown in this lame video, Goku has reflexes that can go beyond Hypersonic by far and close to lightspeed :

Dodging lasers, and going mach speeds when he was only 15 years old. Lasers don't travel at light speed but they travel well beyond hypersonic.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dodging Photon laser beam. Photons move at the Speed of light and doing this in base form.

Wonder woman who is weaker than Superman

-Slower in flight speed (Only Supersonic/Hypersonic)

-Less abilities

-Less durability

However due to her having amazing combat skills and speed she goes toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman(who thinks Wonder Woman is Doomsday) in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.

if wonder Woman could do all that to Superman with her martial arts then Goku could do better.

now what's about power level?

Superman's best feats of power is moving planets, resisting super Nova explosions.

while Goku has close Galaxy buster power, the proof? well, the official powers levels that Akira Toriyama designated for the series in the Daizenshuus, were made just for that, for calculation of his power.

now, we know that Vegeta at his 1st appearence destroyed a planet with only his finger with close to no effort. he had level of 16 000.

Frieza's level was stated clearly and officially to be at his peak 120 000 000.

Supreme Kai has stated that kaioshins are 1000 time stronger than Frieza. and we all know that SSJ3 is stronger than them.

SSJ4 = SSJ3x 10 > 10 x 1000 Frieza = 1 200 000 000 000.

that means SSJ4 > 1 200 000 000 000

now comparing this level to vegeta's 1st appearence level, it's 75 000 000 times. that means 75 million time a planet buster. it's not big enough to call it Galaxy buster, but still it's enough power to blow Superman who was nocked out by very low blasts:

#3 Posted by MrShway88 (655 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

Frieza's level was stated clearly and officially to be at his peak 120 000 000.

Supreme Kai has stated that kaioshins are 1000 time stronger than Frieza. and we all know that SSJ3 is stronger than them.

I was agreeing with you until this part. Frieza's max was 12 million, not 120 million. And when did the Supreme Kai say anything about the Kaioshins being 1000 times stronger? Also power levels are meaningless and unknown after the Frieza Saga (besides the Trunks fight). I will say that the calculations were off especially for Goku.

#4 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@MrShway88 said:

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

Frieza's level was stated clearly and officially to be at his peak 120 000 000.

Supreme Kai has stated that kaioshins are 1000 time stronger than Frieza. and we all know that SSJ3 is stronger than them.

I was agreeing with you until this part. Frieza's max was 12 million, not 120 million. And when did the Supreme Kai say anything about the Kaioshins being 1000 times stronger? Also power levels are meaningless and unknown after the Frieza Saga (besides the Trunks fight). I will say that the calculations were off especially for Goku.

i'm not inventing anything, 120 million is stated in Dragonball Daizenshuu 7, and the 1000 time stronger was mentionned by Supreme Kai: "Each a thousand times more powerful than the one you called Frieza" in DBZ 219 but this i'm not sure it's the right translation to the original menuscript, i'll dig deeper and check it. but the 120 million it's sure thing.

#5 Posted by IvRanger (7 posts) - - Show Bio

My opinion the video was really weird their calculations was hillarious, the speed one and the weight lifting.

In GT Goku lifted half of the city which weights more then 500k Tons and he didn't exectly screamed as much as he would do and didn't even use Kaio-Kan.

And the speed Massure is Hillarious, They calculating by some spikes from begining of saga when he had PowerLevel of 8000.

BTW.@MrShway88 said:

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

Frieza's level was stated clearly and officially to be at his peak 120 000 000.

Supreme Kai has stated that kaioshins are 1000 time stronger than Frieza. and we all know that SSJ3 is stronger than them.

I was agreeing with you until this part. Frieza's max was 12 million, not 120 million. And when did the Supreme Kai say anything about the Kaioshins being 1000 times stronger? Also power levels are meaningless and unknown after the Frieza Saga (besides the Trunks fight). I will say that the calculations were off especially for Goku.

When Frieza first Transformed he mentioned that some say that my powerlevel is over 1.000.000. and he has 4 transformations + (50% only completed fourth one).

And im Kinda sure of it that when he transformed to fourth one he had over 1m Powerlevel.

And later he did mention too goku that he only used 1% of his True Power Which Goku Assumed it wasn't bluff either. So unfortunately i think he did have over 100.000.000 PL.

So i assume that They put superman as victorious just because their Calculations were totaly out of comparing.

Anyways i did still enjoy the video even the outcome wasn't the one i expected hehe.

#6 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@IvRanger: yes, this vidéo is so lame, those who made it are surely Sups fanatics, they used irrelevent facts like travel speed, travel speed is not a combat feat it's useless. and they used weight lifting and it's stupid to use it, i agree that in weight lifting Superman is better but that has nothing to do with fight, Goku use speed and Ki to create powerful striking attacks, in the other hand Superman use speed (just lately) and his weight lifting power to create a powerful striking attacks. they used DC logic to calculate Superman PL which is normal (except for travel speed, dull) but they used DC logic on Goku and that's their biggest mistake. they have to calculate Goku's PL using DBZ logic which is totally based on Ki.

Goku at his weakest SSJ1 level had 150 000 000. and that's 50 times his basic form. SSJ1 = Basic Form x50

Goku in GT story was more powerful than Cell and Frieza in basic form, that makes him at least, and i say at least , with Basic Form = SSJ2 = SSJ1 x2 = 300 000 000

what does that mean? it means this :

SSJ4 = SSJ3 x10 = SSJ2 x40 = SSJ1 x80 = Basic Form x4000 = 1 200 000 000 000.

isn't strange that i calculated SSJ4 with 2 different methods and it gives me the same result!!!! that has to have a meaning. (look to my post above)

now comparing SSJ4 to Vegeta 1st besic form in which he destroyed a planet with little to no effort. SSJ4 = (Vegeta weakest form) x75 000 000.

that means Goku is 75 million time planetbuster. that means his almost 750 thousand time a supernovabuster.

Superman barely resisted 1 supernova whitch is inconvenient since he's solar power based that means a supernova will empower him in the same time that will hurt him, but i'll skip this detail. Superman barely resisted 1 supernova, can he resist 750 thousand supernova combined ? hell no. Sups loses. Goku wins.

PS : in that battle, when Superman created a spacetime hole, Goku could just teleport and escape being sucked. but no they needed to finish the fight and make Superman win at any cost.

#7 Edited by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

You can give Goku a power level into the high billions and it is still no where near Superman in most eras. Tao can toss a Pillar into the horizon, but is blown apart by a regular grenade. Power levels are like RPGs, you can put X amount into Speed, power, ki or whatever other attribute you wish at any given time, while sacrificing lesser power in the other areas if one area is boosted. Even though GT was non canon and a giant filler event, SSJ4 Goku struggled to hold up a tall building and lift up an intersection of one street. That was not a continent, nor a city. It was like a city block and he was really huffing it.

Superman is Superman. Making Goku into his rival or forcing Goku to be another version of Superman is dumb. Goku needs to struggle, he needs to work hard to achieve his goals. Thats what makes him so likable: He is a complete idiot and loses often. But Superman is the complete opposite. His struggle is emotional, not physical. Deathbattle made some errors, but generally got it all right. Nobody in DBZ is even remotely capable of holding the earth up for 7 days straight, SSJ1 and equivalent villains are obliterated by the sun, but Superman sits inside of it when he is bored or needs a boost.

#8 Posted by ArticulateT (189 posts) - - Show Bio

The debate's never going to end, which is good. Like I said in another post, while I agree with this result, Death Battle isn't something universally agreeable with (Like how they claimed Princess Peach to be a capable fighter because of golf, tennis and go karts).

Really, considering most things, i'm actually surprised the debate was Goku vs Superman, rather than Goku vs Sephiroth or Cloud (though, this is probably been done.)

In my eyes, I see them being fairly generous with Goku's speed and strength, and the video itself was a very entertaining one.

#9 Edited by IvRanger (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal said:

You can give Goku a power level into the high billions and it is still no where near Superman in most eras. Tao can toss a Pillar into the horizon, but is blown apart by a regular grenade. Power levels are like RPGs, you can put X amount into Speed, power, ki or whatever other attribute you wish at any given time, while sacrificing lesser power in the other areas if one area is boosted. Even though GT was non canon and a giant filler event, SSJ4 Goku struggled to hold up a tall building and lift up an intersection of one street. That was not a continent, nor a city. It was like a city block and he was really huffing it.

Superman is Superman. Making Goku into his rival or forcing Goku to be another version of Superman is dumb. Goku needs to struggle, he needs to work hard to achieve his goals. Thats what makes him so likable: He is a complete idiot and loses often. But Superman is the complete opposite. His struggle is emotional, not physical. Deathbattle made some errors, but generally got it all right. Nobody in DBZ is even remotely capable of holding the earth up for 7 days straight, SSJ1 and equivalent villains are obliterated by the sun, but Superman sits inside of it when he is bored or needs a boost.

Well ye he sits inside the sun because he needs to refill the energy and thats the source of his power, beside from that he isn't immortal either.

The reason is why DBZ characters can die in DBZ is because there is a Shenron.

+ You mentioned that Even if Goku Would gain many more billions of PL it wouldn't matter?

Yes it would matter alot infact, in this fight there could been both ways victory in the end goku could have IT behind him with DragonFist and finished him off but they didn't add things like that.

Second Yes you're right @ArticulateT Goku isn't Stronger then SUP in strength but how many times has he won over enemys with 100times stronger then him?

Im not gone start saying OMG WHY GOKU DIDN'T WIN OMG WHY!??!!

I am just trying to explain you that you guys are missing big pointers out there when it comes to calculations. Im just stating that it could have ended in more then just 1 way.

PS: in GT that wasn't just a street Goku did lift almost half of the city Which is more then 500.000 Tons.

#10 Posted by desmond006 (595 posts) - - Show Bio

Happy to see I wasn't the only one who noticed the video was lacking. It did change my mind on the outcome of this battle a little bit though.

#11 Edited by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

This video looks pretty bias to me with all the names they made on Goku compared to Superman, and the theory they used to compare is quite ridiculous, using speed travel as combat speed and using Weight lifting feats which has nothing to do with combat except if Sups and Goku decide to make a Somo fight :P

now that's a silly way to make Goku looks weak and dumb, they made him stupid in that fight and couldn't protect his blind spot which is dumb, Goku never showed any weakness when it comes to blind spots and martial arts, in the other hand Superman was always easily taking by surprise :

also Superman's speed reflexes in combat are not faster than Goku's speed reflexes like shown in this lame video, Goku has reflexes that can go beyond Hypersonic by far and close to lightspeed :

Dodging lasers, and going mach speeds when he was only 15 years old. Lasers don't travel at light speed but they travel well beyond hypersonic.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dodging Photon laser beam. Photons move at the Speed of light and doing this in base form.

Wonder woman who is weaker than Superman

-Slower in flight speed (Only Supersonic/Hypersonic)

-Less abilities

-Less durability

However due to her having amazing combat skills and speed she goes toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman(who thinks Wonder Woman is Doomsday) in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.

if wonder Woman could do all that to Superman with her martial arts then Goku could do better.

now what's about power level?

Superman's best feats of power is moving planets, resisting super Nova explosions.

while Goku has close Galaxy buster power, the proof? well, the official powers levels that Akira Toriyama designated for the series in the Daizenshuus, were made just for that, for calculation of his power.

now, we know that Vegeta at his 1st appearence destroyed a planet with only his finger with close to no effort. he had level of 16 000.

Frieza's level was stated clearly and officially to be at his peak 120 000 000.

Supreme Kai has stated that kaioshins are 1000 time stronger than Frieza. and we all know that SSJ3 is stronger than them.

SSJ4 = SSJ3x 10 > 10 x 1000 Frieza = 1 200 000 000 000.

that means SSJ4 > 1 200 000 000 000

now comparing this level to vegeta's 1st appearence level, it's 75 000 000 times. that means 75 million time a planet buster. it's not big enough to call it Galaxy buster, but still it's enough power to blow Superman who was nocked out by very low blasts:

Just get over it.. Superman is stronger. Does that really make your life that much worse? Only a fanboy could say that the fight was unbiased.

#12 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArticulateT said:

The debate's never going to end, which is good. Like I said in another post, while I agree with this result, Death Battle isn't something universally agreeable with (Like how they claimed Princess Peach to be a capable fighter because of golf, tennis and go karts).

Really, considering most things, i'm actually surprised the debate was Goku vs Superman, rather than Goku vs Sephiroth or Cloud (though, this is probably been done.)

In my eyes, I see them being fairly generous with Goku's speed and strength, and the video itself was a very entertaining one.

Agreed.

Also, did you see the TMNT one and how they completely threw Mikey under a bus?

#13 Posted by NeonGameWave (7686 posts) - - Show Bio

I watched that video a good amount of times and while there are very points within the actual video in regards to stats, I believe most of it to be false and inaccurate. Many feats were taken out of context for Goku and many of his greater feats weren`t exactly brought up or thoroughly explained. Now in terms of who would actually win, I always go with Goku for seven important reasons.

1. Combat/Reflex/Reaction Speed: Goku within this area is far superior to Superman, now many of the Superman supporters and fanboys like to use the flight feats in regards to nanoseconds but flight speed does not equal combat speed in any way and Superman accelerates during the process of actually taking flight. Goku is very fast during combat speed and is hypersonic+ or above in regards to that category.

2. Combat experience: Goku has the greater combat experience and has been training a lot longer in regards to honing his skills as well as improving his performance in relation to his physical combat prowess. Goku is very trained in H2H and is a very impressive fighter when it comes to Martial Arts.

3. Doesn`t hold back: Now in regards to being in character and so on so forth, Superman is known for being a character who holds back his punches while Goku gives it his absolute best and never backs down, this determination gives Goku the edge as well.

4. Endurance/Stamina/Will-Power: Goku excels in this category as well as he has shown that he can take massive beatings from very powerful opponents such as Frieza, Broly, and etc. He keeps pushing himself even when the odds are stacked against him and his will power is very strong. Superman hasn`t really shown that he can keep going for weeks or days in pure combat and he has been bested by lesser beings in this regard.

5. Range/Versatility: Now Superman does have his eye beams which Goku can dodge anyway but Goku has more attacks such as Kamehameha, Dragon Fist, Instant Transmission and ki blasts but more importantly within these set of abilities, Goku has shown that he can use all of them effectively in different ways. Goku has the rang advantage and Superman being the confrontational brawler that he is lacks in that department.

6. Raw power: Now Superman may have the physical strength advantage but Goku has the raw power advantage as he can easily inflict a great amount of damage on Superman and his powers increases every SSJ transformation.

7. Channeling of Striking Power: Now many forget the fact that lifting strength is not physical striking power as the Superman supporters over exaggerate Superman`s feat of lifting the earth (which he did not do alone) and bench pressing the earth which is not striking power, now how will that apply in combat? Goku is far superior in regards to the channeling of strength and with ki can amplify that strength in which he can inflict greater damage. Goku also does not hold his punches.

Now many Superman fans like to accuse the Goku fans of using only ABC logic, power levels/power scaling and etc. But feats in regards to Superman are taken out of complete context such as breaking the moon with minimal effort, bench pressing the earth and containing a supposed black hole. Now to summarize it in terms of disadvantages and advantages, this is what I think.

Goku`s Advantages

Combat Speed

Reflexes

Reaction Speed

Versatility

Raw Power

Combat experience and Training

Range

Endurance and Stamina

Will power

Determination

Striking Power

Superman`s Advantages

Physical strength

Intelligence

Flight Speed

Durability

Now as you can see, Goku has more advantages in regards to actual combat and Superman while impressive does not stack up to Goku, I also did not use ABC logic or power scaling to further my points. But just facts and analysis in regards to smaller as well as bigger details within those facts. Now Goku alone in SSJ2 form would give Superman a good fight but adding SSJ3 and maybe SSJ4 (not canon however) Goku is beyond that of Superman (Pre 52 specifically and even New 52), Superman`s physical strength in regards to what he has lifted wouldn`t matter in a fight where all aspects are tested, it comes down to endurance, combat and skill as well as the encompassing advantages of those already stated factors. Now many claim that Superman is invincible and that he can`t be beaten while under the yellow sun as they bring up the Goku can`t breathe in space arguments, kryptonite and so on so forth but they fail to realize that Superman has been beaten before under those conditions as he also has limits which shows that he has vulnerabilities. He has been knocked out by sheer physical force a good amount of times while Goku keeps rising against the greater threat.

#14 Posted by Mr_Hudson (300 posts) - - Show Bio

First post is someone treating losing to Fernus like it proves Supes is weak.

Genius.