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#1 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok. I'll try to be calm here because supes is my fav...but I must address the idea that superman is OP is ridiculous to me. First of all what is OP? I mean really I've seen people say batman is OP. So in reality "OP" is really just a way of saying "I never read thi character and I have no real basis for my disliking of them so I'll attach this arbitrary label that carries a generally negative connotation in order to communicate my disapproval of said characters existence and popularity". So here is what I want to do; if anyone has a legit reason why they dislike superman I'd like to discuss it with you. Because I just don't get why this one character is the recipient of such ire from so many people.

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't find Superman all that interesting or great, but no, he isn't overpowered. There are lots of people in comics who are stronger than him.

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#3 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

You would be hard pressed to find a legitimately overpowered comic character that isn't a parody.

#4 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio

OP means overpowered. The only thing I don't like is why he's always shown to be the most powerful member of the JLA when MM is more powerful.

#5 Edited by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, Superman doesn't get THAT much hate. Superman's haters are pathetically small compared to huge amount of haters for characters like Batman and Wolverine.

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#6 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't find Superman all that interesting or great, but no, he isn't overpowered. There are lots of people in comics who are stronger than him.

That's not the reason he's not overpowered.

The reason he's not overpowered is because his power doesn't exceed the power of the threats he faces on a consistent basis.

But I'm just being picky really.

#7 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: EXACTLY!!!! But about you not finding him interesting...have you given him a chance? Tried any of his graphic novels?

#8 Posted by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

OP means overpowered. The only thing I don't like is why he's always shown to be the most powerful member of the JLA when MM is more powerful.

Wouldn't Flash be the strongest JLA member, with Martian Manhunter being second, and Supermna being third?

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#9 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

OP means overpowered. The only thing I don't like is why he's always shown to be the most powerful member of the JLA when MM is more powerful.

Wouldn't Flash be the strongest JLA member, with Martian Manhunter being second, and Supermna being third?

Depends on what members we're counting.

Technically Phantom Stranger could be considered the most powerful JLA member.

#10 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: I know what it stands for but what does it mean? What makes a character OP? what could you use to prove a character is OP

#11 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I've seen t least 4 threads dedicated to hating in supes and theyre all over 100 posts

#12 Edited by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

No, I haven't really read much about Supes. I'm not a big fun of powerhouses really, but hey, I can't knock something until I try it. You have any suggestions for me?

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#13 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Most people who dismiss Superman as being "OP" have never read a SM story and never will despite what you say. People are just stubborn and don't like trying to understand stuff they dislike.

@sog7dc: Yes but a large number of those posts are people defending him

@wolverine08: All star Superman, Red Son, and Birthright are some of the best Superman stories ever imo.
#14 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: All star superman is THE superman story. If you read that and can honestly say you don't like him. Then you really just don't like him. Other than that I'd suggest superman for tomorrow (my personal favorite) it's about superman asking himself what is he willing to do "for tomorrow" you see his raw power, it's drawn by Jim lee and it's a very intelligent book. Written by Brian azzarello. In fact personally I'd suggest for tomorrow over allstar

#15 Edited by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc:

I think Supes has a dedicated group of dislike here on the Vine, but trust me, if you look around and go to numerous comic forums, it become pretty evident that the two biggest heroes with the most dislikers are Batman and Wolverine.

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#16 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: And I bet most

The reasons for disliking those characters are silly

#17 Posted by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: One example I can think of is in videogames. Superman and Skorpion are considered op in injustice because they can be spammy and just ridiculous.

#19 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: No problem. You suggested a bunch of wolverine before

#20 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: One example I can think of is in videogames. Superman and Skorpion are considered op in injustice because they can be spammy and just ridiculous.

Overpowered in context to a video game is completely different from what it would be in a story.

#21 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Not in my opinion. Flash lacks versatility while MM doesn't. MM has a lot of powers he doesn't normally use.

#22 Edited by Wolverine08 (38526 posts) - - Show Bio

But really, it's quite obvious why Superman gets so many haters. He's popular. Whenever something becomes popular, whether it be a person, fictional character, etc. you get mindless sheep who can't form their own opinions, and jump onto the bandwagons saying "HE'S OVERRATED" "HE'S OVEROPOWERED". It's happened to Superman, Batman, Wolverine, and it'll always happen to popular things. These bandwagoners think by resenting whatever is popular for stupid reasons, they became some type of sophisticated intellectual. Also, they know that they are a minority for hating on something popular, so they make up for their numbers disadvantage by being VERY loud so it looks like they are a majority. At end of the day, you just got to ignore them, because haters are just going to hate no matter what.

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#23 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by batmannflash (6187 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@sog7dc:

No, I haven't really read much about Supes. I'm not a big fun of powerhouses really, but hey, I can't knock something until I try it. You have any suggestions for me?

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/batmannflash/lists/favorite-superman-universe-stories/46745 My favorites. All-Star Superman is a must read. I like Superman as a character but I'm not too big a fan of his stories. However, All-Star Superman is great and I think his stories are best when he's not a solo character. Like Kingdom Come or Infinite Crisis. Also watch the JLU episode "For the Man Who Has Everything." It's better than the comic, IMO.

And I do agree, Batman and Wolverine are more haters, I think.

#25 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: I was giving an example of something op

I understand but your example was useless in context to comics characters which is what's being discussed here.

#26 Posted by batmannflash (6187 posts) - - Show Bio

Popular characters tend to get a TON of haters. Except maybe Spider-Man lol. Because he's Spider-Man.

I think most of the hate for Superman is because they don't need many comics of him, saying that he never faces challenges...

#28 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio

I also see the irony of you saying a character can't be op or boring but misunderstood while you say Silver Surfer can be boring and op despte not reading the best of him. Are you being a hyprocrite?

#29 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5476 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoyelite: Well, someones a little serious

More blunt than anything else. The avatar just makes me seem more mean.

Still not getting rid of it though.

#31 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmannflash said:

Popular characters tend to get a TON of haters. Except maybe Spider-Man lol. Because he's Spider-Man.

I think most of the hate for Superman is because they don't need many comics of him, saying that he never faces challenges...

It's pretty hard to hate Spider-Man(Peter Spidey) . He's such a likable character, you can't use the OP argument, and he normally appears in like 3 books.

#33 Posted by Immortal777 (6858 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate Spider-man but I don't like him either prefer Kaine over Peter.

#34 Edited by batmannflash (6187 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: no offense but that's sort of a random comment...

#35 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21:

Well Ive read a few silver surfer stories and I didn't like him. I made a thread asking or suggestions and I don't remember manypeople participating. Because I like to give characters a chance before I dismiss them. And I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong. I never claimed to be perfect. I just see how annoying it is Ben people make claims and assertions about a character I like. So was I being immature before when I said surfer is OP? yes because OP downy mean anything really and I just took the four books I read about him and use them to assume he was a boring character and I didn't like him. So I was wrong

#36 Posted by Immortal777 (6858 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by Dabee (2379 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

So in reality "OP" is really just a way of saying "I never read thi character and I have no real basis for my disliking of them so I'll attach this arbitrary label that carries a generally negative connotation in order to communicate my disapproval of said characters existence and popularity".

That's pretty true. (If I remember correctly, you said that same thing about the Silver Surfer, Black Panther, Hulk, and a few other characters that you admittedly knew nothing about.) I'm not trying to start anything, but I'm just saying that since you were wondering why people cared so much that you were saying that, it's kind of like how you feel about when people say Superman is OP.

#38 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me tell you why Superman is overpowered and before I even start... yes, I am very well aware that there are characters, who are supposed to be Superman archetypes, but are still far more powerful than Superman.

1) Silver Age Superman ... I think that even newer comic book readers are aware of the Silver Age Superman non-sense, people had to deal with in the past, because these screens are everywhere. In each new issue Superman gained new powers and came up with silly plot-devices.

But these times are over, so it doesn't matter all too much, but what remains is the fact that the DC writers kinda cornered themselves and had to retcon their entire DC universe to get rid of all the stuff they came up with in the past.
Silver Age Kryptonians were ridiculously overpowered.

2) Is modern day Superman overpowered? Well, when it comes to the New 52 Superman his only good feat is him bench-pressing the Earth for 5 days, which is nonsensical in my opinion and I don't even pay attention at that piece of crap-writing. Other than that he seems to be far more balanced than Pre 52 Superman, who ... was fighting outside of his league.

Superman had weaknesses in Kryptonite and magic, but magic kinda became a non-factor for him throughout the years. It never affected him more than the others, but he did not have a special invulnerability to it like to physical and energy based damage. Magic affects him as it does everyone else, but there were many instances, where he delt with magic better than anyone else, so his durability there is still high enough.
Then we had instances where he was weakened by Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation and he was still surviving nukes, planet explosions and supernovas left and right.

Superman has higher resistances to telepathy than the other characters, because he is Superman.
Superman beats up Darkseid and competes with Imperiex, because he is Superman.
Superman can talk to Flash, while the time stands still, because he is Superman.
Superman can lift a building, without it collapsing under its own weight, because he is Superman and Superman of course needs some psychich powers, without even realizing it.
Superman can do this and that, because he is Superman.

When everyone else on Superman's level fails, Superman will win.

Is Superman overpowered? Not necessarily. But will Superman beat more powerful opponents by simply being durable and punching them? Oh yeah, he will.

#39 Posted by ColaNicole (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I don't think Flash would beat Supes. People use the same argument for Flash, speed blitz with IMP but it doesn't work that way. As for MM it could go either way.

#40 Posted by TheReptile (190 posts) - - Show Bio

@colanicole: MM is very strong. In my opinion I would say he is the strongest on the team.

He fought the entire JL at the same time. Including Supes and Flash.

#41 Posted by Z3RO180 (6295 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: Can MM rub his head and pat his belly while hopping. NO HE CAN'T. Superman is the strongest :)

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#42 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: I get it! It's kinda like sentry beating molecule man! Fighting outside his weight class and all....

#43 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by Rossnrachel4ever (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: I really hate all the crap Silver Age Superman gets. He was the product of a time when only children read comics and as such the stories were meant to be light and fantastic. Silver Age Superman was all about fun and good times. So what if he gained a new weird power every issue? It was meant to be fun! He was never meant to be taken too seriously and I'm sure the creators never gave a thought to how his power might affect nerd arguments in the future. I'm not attacking you by any means, but when I see Silver Age Superman being brought up its always negatively. The few Silver Age Supes stories I've read made me laugh, in a good way and filled me with joy. Comics today could use a little more whimsy IMO.

#45 Posted by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio
@sog7dc said:

I get it! It's kinda like sentry beating molecule man! Fighting outside his weight class and all....

It's not the same for Superman and the Sentry.
When it comes to Sentry we always saw him pulling of ridiculous feats like erasing the memories of people and animals on a planetary level ... no, not on a planetary level, because it went even past that and affected beings on the Moon. Sentry healing people, resurrecting people, teleporting around, resurrecting himself. We never knew what his powers were and during the Molecule Man instance we learned more about his powers. He was not fighting above his weight class, but found out what he is capable off.

Superman on the other hand surpasses every limit with his limited power-set and doesn't care about his weaknesses. Neither magic, nor a red sun, nor Kryptonite are Superman's weaknesses. If not even Batgod can win a fight against Superman, while using Kryptonite, then that weakness is kinda pointless.

I really hate all the crap Silver Age Superman gets. He was the product of a time when only children read comics and as such the stories were meant to be light and fantastic. Silver Age Superman was all about fun and good times. So what if he gained a new weird power every issue? It was meant to be fun! He was never meant to be taken too seriously and I'm sure the creators never gave a thought to how his power might affect nerd arguments in the future. I'm not attacking you by any means, but when I see Silver Age Superman being brought up its always negatively. The few Silver Age Supes stories I've read made me laugh, in a good way and filled me with joy. Comics today could use a little more whimsy IMO.


I'm not downgrading Superman for what he has done during Silver Age times. He was certainly not the only character, who came up with ridiculous feats and never pulled of something like that later on. There are other characters similar to that.

My point is that Silver Age Superman started that era of Superman's invicibility and ability to overcome every single obstacle. Back in the day DC comics were throwing out feats for Superman left and right to make him stand out, even if there was not even an actual context point in the comic and unfortunately something like that happens nowdays as well, when it comes to Superman.

#46 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@thereptile: Geoff Johns wrote that. It doesn't count.

And the people who use the "OP" argument against Superman are just plain wrong.

#47 Posted by dondave (34282 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

Let me tell you why Superman is overpowered and before I even start... yes, I am very well aware that there are characters, who are supposed to be Superman archetypes, but are still far more powerful than Superman.

1) Silver Age Superman ... I think that even newer comic book readers are aware of the Silver Age Superman non-sense, people had to deal with in the past, because these screens are everywhere. In each new issue Superman gained new powers and came up with silly plot-devices.

But these times are over, so it doesn't matter all too much, but what remains is the fact that the DC writers kinda cornered themselves and had to retcon their entire DC universe to get rid of all the stuff they came up with in the past.

Silver Age Kryptonians were ridiculously overpowered.

2) Is modern day Superman overpowered? Well, when it comes to the New 52 Superman his only good feat is him bench-pressing the Earth for 5 days, which is nonsensical in my opinion and I don't even pay attention at that piece of crap-writing. Other than that he seems to be far more balanced than Pre 52 Superman, who ... was fighting outside of his league.

Superman had weaknesses in Kryptonite and magic, but magic kinda became a non-factor for him throughout the years. It never affected him more than the others, but he did not have a special invulnerability to it like to physical and energy based damage. Magic affects him as it does everyone else, but there were many instances, where he delt with magic better than anyone else, so his durability there is still high enough.

Then we had instances where he was weakened by Kryptonite and Red Sun radiation and he was still surviving nukes, planet explosions and supernovas left and right.

Superman has higher resistances to telepathy than the other characters, because he is Superman.

Superman beats up Darkseid and competes with Imperiex, because he is Superman.

Superman can talk to Flash, while the time stands still, because he is Superman.

Superman can lift a building, without it collapsing under its own weight, because he is Superman and Superman of course needs some psychich powers, without even realizing it.

Superman can do this and that, because he is Superman.

When everyone else on Superman's level fails, Superman will win.

Is Superman overpowered? Not necessarily. But will Superman beat more powerful opponents by simply being durable and punching them? Oh yeah, he will.

Green Lanterns were as OP'd as Superman during the Silver Age it wasn't just him. Also his resistance to telepathy came from Martian Manhunter putting shields in his mind not because he's Superman although there are many instances of him being dominated by telepathy

#48 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio
@dondave said:

Green Lanterns were as OP'd as Superman during the Silver Age it wasn't just him. Also his resistance to telepathy came from Martian Manhunter putting shields in his mind not because he's Superman although there are many instances of him being dominated by telepathy.

1. No one puts as much focus on the Green Lantern as on Superman. He is Superman after all.

Green Lanterns are ridiculously overpowered, but everyone always talks about Superman, who has enough super strength to punch through Green Lantern constructs - who has enough super speed to vibrate through punches and who has enough durability to survive a supernovas, while being affected by one of his main "weaknesses".

2. Superman still came out on top, while other characters, who were as powerful as him failed. He is Superman after all.

There were instances, where telepathy dominated him, but at the same time one of the most memorable instances had to be prepared over years to take over his mind. Then we had instances, where he delt with magic better than anyone else, simply because he is overall more durable than the rest of them, so not even magic bothers him in that aspect.

I'm not trying to make the argument that he is overpowered. His power-set is limited after all and he has weaknesses, but no matter how much crap you throw at him, he always fights through and doesn't give a damn about you trying to take him down. There is no threat for him. He is Superman after all.

Sentry could raise his hand and make Superman explodie via molecule manipulation and what would happen? Superman would wake up out of a healing coma. Great.

#49 Edited by Jake Fury (18116 posts) - - Show Bio

@colanicole: MM is very strong. In my opinion I would say he is the strongest on the team.

He fought the entire JL at the same time. Including Supes and Flash.

He's powerful but that battle was only mentioned in flashback without any real details.

#50 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: Oh so your logic for superman doesn't apply to sentry? Got it. Ridiculous