http://imgur.com/gallery/mhPV8
Don't want to get into the actual debate, but the sheer work effort in this is stellar and it deserves praising for not being biased and being so well thought out and written. The calculations part makes more sense than anything screwattack did with their video and so far I've never come across anyone ever posting anything like that for speed and strength on these characters that actually make sense like this.
Imgur is the bomb diggity.
The guy does his research and calculations well, but he leaves out the fact that there is a significant difference between combat speed (striking/dodging/etc) and travel speed (flying around Earth faster than light). DBZ characters have shown short distance combat or "burst" speed faster than light as early as Radditz. However they can't sustain that in flight or over long distances. Could it be a product of their extensive martial arts training (as many styles incorporate body mechanic reading)? Who knows. He also uses a very early version of Goku, but an amalgam Superman it seems. Like you said I'm really not looking to get into the debate though, everyone is free to think what they want when it comes to the fight (always nice when you can support it though haha).
What the hell are you talking about, everything you mentioned is written in there. You are supposed to click the "more" button. The post is really big. You didn't actually read it.
Pretty damn sure it was biased as he use multiple version of superman and only used goku wayy before he became super saiyan. Hell way before he used Kaioken. Hell he wasn't even right about the after image. Not very fair f you ask me.
The OP disproved that with cold hard facts. Read the Speed portion where all that was addressed.
The guy does his research and calculations well, but he leaves out the fact that there is a significant difference between combat speed (striking/dodging/etc) and travel speed (flying around Earth faster than light). DBZ characters have shown short distance combat or "burst" speed faster than light as early as Radditz. However they can't sustain that in flight or over long distances. Could it be a product of their extensive martial arts training (as many styles incorporate body mechanic reading)? Who knows. He also uses a very early version of Goku, but an amalgam Superman it seems. Like you said I'm really not looking to get into the debate though, everyone is free to think what they want when it comes to the fight (always nice when you can support it though haha).
What the hell are you talking about, everything you mentioned is written in there. You are supposed to click the "more" button. The post is really big.
Pretty damn sure it was biased as he use multiple version of superman and only used goku wayy before he became super saiyan. Hell way before he used Kaioken. Hell he wasn't even right about the after image. Not very fair f you ask me.
Besides that he uses more than one version of supes. Heck this person lowballs Kakarot's power level. And he even uses a movie version of supes? Does that make sense at all? This guy even brings up how Goku is a mortal. So is supes. The only part I like is the last part of where goku and superman are pals. I'm not up for debate. I just point out the facts.
that post is easily the best and most well thought out execution of this debate anyone in the history of the debate has ever made,his post made Screw Attack's video look like garbage and his calculations are brilliant. Massive props, wish that was a sticky thread here
Please, don't troll.
- Almost nobody else ever had sense enough to speak about more than one version of Superman in these debates. It is almost always just one version, and many people are not aware of how many versions and era's there really were. So your claim on this isn't at all justified. Sit down.
- Goku's power levels during that time are all official. The last official power level was 150,000,000 for Super Saiyan 1 Goku during his fight with Final Form Freeza, whom had a power level of 120,000,000.
- Why not bring up the movie versions since Man of Steel and Superman 1 were so popular and enjoyed by more general consumers than comic enthusiasts? Your basis for this being unfair is pretty stupid. Be happy Silver Age or only Superman Prime weren't used, or that only Goku from Dragonball Evolution wasn't used to base everything on. By your logic, just using Chatwin as Goku's basis would be perfectly acceptable.
- Are you saying that Kioken is more powerful than SSJ4? Kioken isn't even a factor since most of the debate started with Super Saiyan power levels and was judged based on that.
- In fact, he was right about the Afterimage. Nobody died nearby, the walls didn't melt, Bulmas eardrums didn't pop and her head didn't explode. Nobody was harmed, no wind was generated and there was only hardly audible "zings" from the fighters and it can only be heard once the entire area was dead silent.
It's now proven that Superman and Goku cannot be in the same thread because the thread can't handle the two.
Light speed is over a billion KMph and Saiyan Saga Goku with a power level of 8000 was clocked at 37,000 kmph.
total bs, nobody in DB could move at light speed. I agree i am not good at arguing or debating, but this was just really impressive to me since it was so unbiased
@granitesoldier said:
The guy does his research and calculations well, but he leaves out the fact that there is a significant difference between combat speed (striking/dodging/etc) and travel speed (flying around Earth faster than light). DBZ characters have shown short distance combat or "burst" speed faster than light as early as Radditz. However they can't sustain that in flight or over long distances. Could it be a product of their extensive martial arts training (as many styles incorporate body mechanic reading)? Who knows. He also uses a very early version of Goku, but an amalgam Superman it seems. Like you said I'm really not looking to get into the debate though, everyone is free to think what they want when it comes to the fight (always nice when you can support it though haha).
I respect the work that person put into it but I can't take anything in that post seriously when it says Smallville Clark would, and I quote, "eat Bills and SSG Goku for breakfast and not think twice"
The sheer ridiculousness of that quote has made my night.
Please, don't troll.
- Almost nobody else ever had sense enough to speak about more than one version of Superman in these debates. It is almost always just one version, and many people are not aware of how many versions and era's there really were. So your claim on this isn't at all justified. Sit down.
- Goku's power levels during that time are all official. The last official power level was 150,000,000 for Super Saiyan 1 Goku during his fight with Final Form Freeza, whom had a power level of 120,000,000.
- Why not bring up the movie versions since Man of Steel and Superman 1 were so popular and enjoyed by more general consumers than comic enthusiasts? Your basis for this being unfair is pretty stupid. Be happy Silver Age or only Superman Prime weren't used, or that only Goku from Dragonball Evolution wasn't used to base everything on. By your logic, just using Chatwin as Goku's basis would be perfectly acceptable.
- Are you saying that Kioken is more powerful than SSJ4? Kioken isn't even a factor since most of the debate started with Super Saiyan power levels and was judged based on that.
- In fact, he was right about the Afterimage. Nobody died nearby, the walls didn't melt, Bulmas eardrums didn't pop and her head didn't explode. Nobody was harmed, no wind was generated and there was only hardly audible "zings" from the fighters and it can only be heard once the entire area was dead silent.
What the hell are you talking about, everything you mentioned is written in there. You are supposed to click the "more" button. The post is really big.
Pretty damn sure it was biased as he use multiple version of superman and only used goku wayy before he became super saiyan. Hell way before he used Kaioken. Hell he wasn't even right about the after image. Not very fair f you ask me.
Besides that he uses more than one version of supes. Heck this person lowballs Kakarot's power level. And he even uses a movie version of supes? Does that make sense at all? This guy even brings up how Goku is a mortal. So is supes. The only part I like is the last part of where goku and superman are pals. I'm not up for debate. I just point out the facts.
If you are talking to me
1. Not trolling. Basing things off facts guy. if you think I'm trolling look at every battle on here and; most of themspecifically state which version of the hero they choose to battle with another one.
2. Why bring up anything that is not canon? Any movie of a superhero is not canon. Why base argument off of that? Read my words carefully. Its pretty damn stupid when someone would uses a movie when most of these official debates on this website base everything on comics. This isn't about consumers its about comics. So again try harder or don't reply.
3. Read my words carefully. When have I ever said Kaioken was more powerful than ssj4? I didn't. thats right. The debate didn't start off with super saiyan levels. They started off with early DBZ level and progressed to ssj. But they automatically bring in silver age supes into this who is way more powerful. Does that make sense?
4. Nah he wasn't. Same reason why nothing happens when flash does what he does.
My argument. Stick to one version that is more of a match for the other or its an unfair/spite match. Don't bring in Silver age supes, Prime supes, non canon movie supes, All star- supes, then New 52
All different version of superman. You completely misread everything I've posted or aren't understanding what I have to say.
I'm trying really hard to understand why you think it is odd. Clark pushed an entire planet into the furthest reaches of space quickly just after finally receiving all of his powers. With no practice, no time to learn anything he was able to push Darksieds entire world so far away from Earth that he wouldn't ever return. Whiez is significantly more powerful than Bills was and even he took half an hour to fly over a 4 galaxy area. Clark pushed Warworld a lot further than 4 galaxies away. How fast do you need to fly to spin around a nuclear blast explosion and end up funneling it out of existence? Answer: faster than sub atomic particle physics works and a lot faster than Whiz was traveling.
I respect the work that person put into it but I can't take anything in that post seriously when it says Smallville Clark would, and I quote, "eat Bills and SSG Goku for breakfast and not think twice"
The sheer ridiculousness of that quote has made my night.
Honestly i felt the same thing...... I've done some thing wrong in taking the bait....
Haha, I felt like this too
1 . I apologize if you weren't but it seemed like it.
2. I am sorry again, but that makes no sense to only offer one scenario instead of many. I've actually never heard anyone complain about generous amounts of info that cover all bases. Have you read the battle section here on comicvine? It is filled with alternate versions of the same character vs another. Not just one. There is not just one thread about Superman vs someone else, its Superman from this era, that movie, that comic, that era or this one. Nobody is only interested in just one version of Superman battling. And if so, the current 52 gen was included, so you really have no basis for anything on this.
3. You said he downplayed kioken, when it doesn't really matter. The way you typed it implied heavily that everything is wrong because he didn't mention kioken. He did say in there that it doesn't even matter than Super Saiyan 1 is either x50 or x833 over Base form. Since the official power level stat boost forms are contradictory to the official power levels themselves. Goku's base form is 3 million, not 180,000 at that time. So even with that, as the person who made that Imgur thing said clear as day, it wont even matter because Goku times a billion equates to something Superman " giggles at ". Kioken isn't even a factor in the debate because super saiyan forms are significantly more powerful.
4. Flash is a super hero who does not make sonic blasts, its part of his powers set. You don't read DC, that much is clear. In Dragonball, sonic blasts and concussive forces play a huge part of the show, manga and series. Things blow up often as a direct result of sonic blasts. The Afterimage technique is not light speed. Kami and Tien were not billions of times as slow as Roshi and Goku, all of them were unable to SEE Goku in movement even though their power levels had a differences of only 100 or so. Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Kami could not see Goku and Roshi moving. It is not a technique of speed, just like how Goku can make it seem like there are 5 of himself, just as cell did. It is just a technique of Ki, nothing more.
I disagree, make it known that there are more than one version of Superman out there and do not stick to just one version. Explain as many as you can because there are so many forms of Media that all house different Superman incarnations. Having just one in a battle guide is stupid and you didn't read the title of the post. It is called Goku vs Superman The Ultimate Guide. It was not called Goku vs only one specific version of Superman.
If you are talking to me
1. Not trolling. Basing things off facts guy. if you think I'm trolling look at every battle on here and; most of themspecifically state which version of the hero they choose to battle with another one.
2. Why bring up anything that is not canon? Any movie of a superhero is not canon. Why base argument off of that? Read my words carefully. Its pretty damn stupid when someone would uses a movie when most of these official debates on this website base everything on comics. This isn't about consumers its about comics. So again try harder or don't reply.
3. Read my words carefully. When have I ever said Kaioken was more powerful than ssj4? I didn't. thats right. The debate didn't start off with super saiyan levels. They started off with early DBZ level and progressed to ssj. But they automatically bring in silver age supes into this who is way more powerful. Does that make sense?
4. Nah he wasn't. Same reason why nothing happens when flash does what he does.
My argument. Stick to one version that is more of a match for the other or its an unfair/spite match. Don't bring in Silver age supes, Prime supes, non canon movie supes, All star- supes, then New 52
All different version of superman. You completely misread everything I've posted or aren't understanding what I have to say.
1 . I apologize if you weren't but it seemed like it.
2. I am sorry again, but that makes no sense to only offer one scenario instead of many. I've actually never heard anyone complain about generous amounts of info that cover all bases. Have you read the battle section here on comicvine? It is filled with alternate versions of the same character vs another. Not just one. There is not just one thread about Superman vs someone else, its Superman from this era, that movie, that comic, that era or this one. Nobody is only interested in just one version of Superman battling. And if so, the current 52 gen was included, so you really have no basis for anything on this.
3. You said he downplayed kioken, when it doesn't really matter. The way you typed it implied heavily that everything is wrong because he didn't mention kioken. He did say in there that it doesn't even matter than Super Saiyan 1 is either x50 or x833 over Base form. Since the official power levels are contradictory to the official power levels themselves. Goku's base form is 3 million, not 180,000 at that time. So even with that, as the person who made that Imgur thing said clear as day, it wont even matter because Goku times a billion equates to something Superman " giggles at ". Kioken isn't even a factor in the debate because super saiyan forms are significantly more powerful.
4. Flash is a super hero who does not make sonic blasts, its part of his powers set. You don't read DC, that much is clear. In Dragonball, sonic blasts and concussive forces play a huge part of the show, manga and series. Things blow up often as a direct result of sonic blasts. The Afterimage technique is not light speed. Kami and Tien were not billions of times as slow as Roshi and Goku, all of them were unable to SEE Goku in movement even though their power levels had a differences of only 100 or so. Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Kami could not see Goku and Roshi moving. It is not a technique of speed, just like how Goku can make it seem like there are 5 of himself, just as cell did. It is just a technique of Ki, nothing more.
I disagree, make it known that there are more than one version of Superman out there and do not stick to just one version. Explain as many as you can because there are so many forms of Media that all house different Superman incarnations. Having just one in a battle guide is stupid and you didn't read the title of the post. It is called Goku vs Superman The Ultimate Guide. It was not called Goku vs only one specific version of Superman.
If you are talking to me
1. Not trolling. Basing things off facts guy. if you think I'm trolling look at every battle on here and; most of themspecifically state which version of the hero they choose to battle with another one.
2. Why bring up anything that is not canon? Any movie of a superhero is not canon. Why base argument off of that? Read my words carefully. Its pretty damn stupid when someone would uses a movie when most of these official debates on this website base everything on comics. This isn't about consumers its about comics. So again try harder or don't reply.
3. Read my words carefully. When have I ever said Kaioken was more powerful than ssj4? I didn't. thats right. The debate didn't start off with super saiyan levels. They started off with early DBZ level and progressed to ssj. But they automatically bring in silver age supes into this who is way more powerful. Does that make sense?
4. Nah he wasn't. Same reason why nothing happens when flash does what he does.
My argument. Stick to one version that is more of a match for the other or its an unfair/spite match. Don't bring in Silver age supes, Prime supes, non canon movie supes, All star- supes, then New 52
All different version of superman. You completely misread everything I've posted or aren't understanding what I have to say.
Everything you said was fair. But I've definitely read DC comics or I wouldn't be making my argument here. I wasn't talking about sonic blasts I was talking about speed. Don't make assumptions if you really don't know. Again they've should have just made a battle with just goku and one superman. Not an ultimate guide where he is trumped by every supes made.
I'm trying really hard to understand why you think it is odd. Clark pushed an entire planet into the furthest reaches of space quickly just after finally receiving all of his powers. With no practice, no time to learn anything he was able to push Darksieds entire world so far away from Earth that he wouldn't ever return. Whiez is significantly more powerful than Bills was and even he took half an hour to fly over a 4 galaxy area. Clark pushed Warworld a lot further than 4 galaxies away. How fast do you need to fly to spin around a nuclear blast explosion and end up funneling it out of existence? Answer: faster than sub atomic particle physics works and a lot faster than Whiz was traveling.
I respect the work that person put into it but I can't take anything in that post seriously when it says Smallville Clark would, and I quote, "eat Bills and SSG Goku for breakfast and not think twice"
The sheer ridiculousness of that quote has made my night.
Clark pushing the planet away cool, but I've seen Smallville and his other feats aren't that impressive. The speed Clark pushed away the planet is a speed he never showed in a fight during the series. The distance between the galaxies in DBZ is never stated. We don't know how far away these galaxies actually are in relation to one another. But anyways I'm not trying to get into an argument about it, it's a waste of time.
The distance between galaxies was in fact stated, an entire art image was painted to show how it works in the DBZ universe. Hell and the afterlife is actually separated from the universe itself by a smoke and cloud barrier, there are only 4 galaxies in the entire DBZ universe, north, south, east and west with some space between each one, some space between them and the very edge of the universe. Whiz did not teleport to King Kai's planet, the Kai planet is actually inside normal space as we know it, just very far away and Bills and Whiz's house it even further. Whiz flew directly to King Kai's planet, and then flew directly to Earth and it took him 26 minutes to travel there.
The original imgur poster explained how Clark was extremely would and that Roshi would probably waste him no problem prior to the last episode. But in the last segment of the final episode Clark finally got all of his powers and did something on par with Silver Age Superman.
Definitely not a waste of time for me, I am a fan of both series. I love talking about it, sorry you feel otherwise.
a bit harsh, when something is that nicely put together and well done, I can't possibly consider it a waste of time. Dude you see the responses and comments there? that is Imgur, land of the troll and downvotes even for great images and posts, guy made something that wasn't downvoted and ended up getting well received by both Superman and Goku fanboys. Such a thing has never occurred before and blew my mind, sorry if it offends or upsets you that i posted it. didnt mean to upset you or make you think it was a waste of time
The distance between galaxies was in fact stated, an entire art image was painted to show how it works in the DBZ universe. Hell and the afterlife is actually separated from the universe itself by a smoke and cloud barrier, there are only 4 galaxies in the entire DBZ universe, north, south, east and west with some space between each one, some space between them and the very edge of the universe. Whiz did not teleport to King Kai's planet, the Kai planet is actually inside normal space as we know it, just very far away and Bills and Whiz's house it even further. Whiz flew directly to King Kai's planet, and then flew directly to Earth and it took him 26 minutes to travel there.
The original imgur poster explained how Clark was extremely would and that Roshi would probably waste him no problem prior to the last episode. But in the last segment of the final episode Clark finally got all of his powers and did something on par with Silver Age Superman.
Definitely not a waste of time for me, I am a fan of both series. I love talking about it, sorry you feel otherwise.
a bit harsh. tthis site has an entire subforum dedicated to battles like this so clearly you are in the minority here. Dragonball is a bit of a passion for me and getting to hear about some Superman facts that I'd forgotten about was pretty awesome, when something is that nicely put together and well done, I can't possibly consider it a waste of time. Dude you see the responses and comments there? Dude, that is Imgur, land of the troll and downvotes even for great images and posts, guy made something that wasn't downvoted and ended up getting well received by both Superman and Goku fanboys. Such a thing has never occurred before and blew my mind, sorry if it offends or upsets you that i posted it. didnt mean to upset you or make you think it was a waste of time
K
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment