#1 Posted by stumpy49er (609 posts) - - Show Bio


#2 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

The wording of the choices is a little extreme, lol, but I chose B. I'm not overly picky on the "quality" of the story when it comes to my favorite characters (with less popular ones, it probably matters more (subconsciously)). Art matters more to me too (not more than character, but more than story).

#3 Posted by jloneblackheart (5507 posts) - - Show Bio

A story should build the character (even if in the end they die). We shouldn't have to pick between the two.

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#4 Posted by SavageDragon (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

I assume people picking B are fans of the Big Two comics. I really only have a real attachment to maybe 5 characters or less so I think its all about the story.

#5 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

Tom Brevoort is a "it's all about the story" proponent, and for his constant preaching he is disliked. With good reason, though. So to me, it's the character. It's a bad comic when the character revolves around the story as opposed to the other way around.

#6 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16746 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart said:

A story should build the character (even if in the end they die). We shouldn't have to pick between the two.

Woah. You stole this out of my head, didn't you?

#7 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

A bit of both for me, though the characters are more important.

#8 Posted by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio

In practice I refuse to pick. If my favorite characters personalities and characterization are slaughtered for the sake of the story, then they aren't really my favorite characters are they? Only visually similar to what my favorite character might wear aesthetically (and usually in a lot of bad stories involving my favorite characters Elektra and Emma Frost apparently thats too much to ask as they are always stripping for stupid reasons) but there are plenty of good stories out there. Not just in comics, but everywhere. Hell I even think of some in my own head I like and could write down. So I have a constant supply of good stories from lots of places, but I also like cool characters and the benefits from knowing I may have a consistent supply of stories with those characters I like in them.

In theory for the sake of discussion I am character first, because I find good characters rarer than good stories, and so enjoy stories most when that character is treated well and I have never read a bad story where a character has been treated well. As opposed to a few okay stories where characters were treated pretty bad.

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#9 Posted by Kawowoi (18 posts) - - Show Bio

IT has to be the story.. thats how you get to know the character and anything else involved

#10 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

These choices are a bit biased.

And given the recent discussions I've had with you, and your recent blogging...

...it's pretty clear what inspired it and what your position on it is...

#11 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Yeah I read that thread. And BTW, I agree 100% with what you said in it. Although I do like Cable and X-force. But I've been a Cable fan since Executioner's song so there might be some bias there.

#12 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982: If I didn't have Humphries' run, I might be more tempted to try Hopeless' one out (though I'm still not sure...part of me just wants to boycott the guy outright, haha). I'm more interested in going back and reading Remender's run, which followed Kyle & Yost's (which was the first full comic run I ever read). I hear nothing but good things about it.

Anyhow as per the poll, I obviously went with the second one, but "we shouldn't have to pick between the two" is pretty much the real answer. And since I don't think death is important for telling a good story, I think the notion of pitting good story against character life is a ridiculous scenario; if a writer tells me they can't write a good story without killing characters, I tell them they're not a good writer.

#13 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@tg1982: If I didn't have Humphries' run, I might be more tempted to try Hopeless' one out (though I'm still not sure...part of me just wants to boycott the guy outright, haha). I'm more interested in going back and reading Remender's run, which followed Kyle & Yost's (which was the first full comic run I ever read). I hear nothing but good things about it.

Anyhow as per the poll, I obviously went with the second one, but "we shouldn't have to pick between the two" is pretty much the real answer. And since I don't think death is important for telling a good story, I think the notion of pitting good story against character life is a ridiculous scenario; if a writer tells me they can't write a good story without killing characters, I tell them they're not a good writer.

Yeah, Remender's great. I've only started reading his work when he went on Uncanny Avengers and Captain America (who is my favorite, if you couldn't tell by my avatar, lol) both of which, in my opinion, are superb. Eventually I'll go and get the back issues of X-Force and Fantistic Four.

I will say that Hopeless isn't, in my opinion, a bad writer perse, I do think he's good on Cable and X-Force, but obviously his take on the characters of Avengers Arena is lacking (to say the least). Which isn't all that uncommon some writers just have a better grasp on some characters and not others. And then the plotholes you've mentioned.

As for the bold parts of your quote I couldn't agree more.

#14 Posted by UltraSuperTrooper (676 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta be character. Can't have a good story if you keep killing off everyone's favorites. Hard to maintain coherent stories with new characters all the time

#15 Posted by judasnixon (6504 posts) - - Show Bio

I want Marvel to be like Game of Thrones, no one is safe. 

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#16 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982: *notes only non-bolded part of paragraph, raises brow*

And to be clear, that entire paragraph was not intended to reflect my views on a specific author.

#17 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Not sure what you mean by the " *notes only non-bolded part of paragraph, raises brow* " part.

But for the second part... yeah I know, I was just giving my opinion on him.

#18 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

How the hell did I PM myself with the above post!?!

#19 Posted by SoA (4777 posts) - - Show Bio

neither poll choices lol

good characters need a well written story ,, they do not need the marvel method of die and come back every 3 issues . i like stories that take the chance of killing major characters (invincible, walking dead) but a character needs to be in good hands and needs to exceed their powers/gimmick (witchblade/the darkness) , so well developed characters and an engaging story makes for a fun comic

#20 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5835 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA: I definitely agree with what you said!

I can't possibly choose between the two since I think that both the characters and the story are important. If the story is very well written, than the characters in that story can easily be the most memorable characters in comic books because the stories revolving around them were always written very well.

#21 Posted by SoA (4777 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog: exactly. to provide a great example im a fan of wolverine , he had like 5 stories come out this week featuring him and to me they were a bit lackluster story-wise i dropped savage wolverine after issue 1 because the story seemed lacking in that as well.so the character does not always make the comic

#22 Edited by stumpy49er (609 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

These choices are a bit biased.

And given the recent discussions I've had with you, and your recent blogging...

...it's pretty clear what inspired it and what your position on it is...

I voted character.

It was tongue in cheek. For the record I care about both. In the end, yes I do care more about character (at least when it comes to comics). The reason I worded it the way I did was because I was light heartedly making fun of both positions, i.e. myself.

#23 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Story for sure. Alan Moore's ABC line of comics was better than anything the Big 2 put out in a long time. And right now Valiant is putting everyone to shame with its writing.

Edit: Just noticed the death portion of the question. Strength of the story dictates whether its a good move or not. I will mention that the wording on the poll seems a bit biased though.

#24 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@stumpy49er: Funny you should say that. I was on my phone when I read your response, so I couldn't reply, but originally all you said was "I voted character" and I was going to say "Well, unless you're intentionally mocking the way people usually phrase these positions..."

And to be clear to anyone who's unsure: I'm not against the concept of death in comics. I just think it's something that should happen exceedingly rarely and only for a completely justifiable reason; if it's easy for people to write off the death as trivial or stupid, then it wasn't a good death, and shouldn't have happened. People care about characters, sometimes as if they were real people (hey, you spend enough years investing emotionally in something, it happens, plain and simple). Offing them should not be taken lightly. We have enough real, and seemingly pointless, death in real life. Characters are the friends we're supposed to not have to worry about losing.