@Silver2467 said:
@SupBatz said:
Also, the irony that Darth Sidious was the one to break this rule under Darth Plageus makes for a pretty strong statement in itself.
Tenebrous and Plagueis broke the Rule of Two before Sidious did, the former by planning to live forever in a Forceful body born from Plagueis' influence on midi-chlorians and the latter by planning to have himself and Sidious rule the galaxy together as equals; in fact, if anything, Sidious was more faithful to Bane's Rule than Plagueis was because Sidious subjected Plagueis to it by killing Plagueis off and ascending to the rank of Sith Master himself. The fact that Sidious inducted Maul as his apprentice while Plagueis still lived is not outside the precepts of the Rule; if it were, then Bane and Zannah similarly broke the Rule. Bane initiated Cognus as his apprentice while Zannah still lived, and Zannah was searching for Sith candidates, like Set Harth, while Bane still lived. Having an apprentice while the Sith Master still endures is not against the Rule of Two by Bane and Zannah's example. Otherwise, by your definition, not even Bane championed his own Rule properly, which Zannah already believed to be the case since Bane sought out a means of immortality instead of allowing Zannah to replace him; Tenebrous and Plagueis in like fashion also were looking to acquire means to immortality to the suspension of the Rule of Two. Contrarily, Sidious, unlike Bane, Tenebrous, or Plagueis, at least exercised the patience to overthrow the galaxy before he educated himself in the secrets of immortality.
...
But I feel like after the time of Darth Bane and Darth Zannah, nobody has really touched upon the Rule of Two quite so well. It really is a great principle that just isn't explained or touched upon in an intelligent manner outside of Bane's time.
Darth Plagueis by James Luceno disagrees.
I don't think I expressed what meant clearly enough. First, I'll note that I haven't read Darth Plagueis yet so I can't really comment on anything that occurred in it. But in my original statement, I wasn't referring to Sidious' having multiple apprentices or his training Maul while still being trained by Plagueis being the factors which, in my opinion, made him unfaithful to the Rule of Two. I was refering specifically to his abandoning the rule after conquering the galaxy (though after reading your points about abandoning the rule after it has served its purpose I have had a change of heart and agree with what you pointed out) and his killing Darth Plagueis in his sleep.
The image of Darth Sidious killing his master in his sleep (going simply by the reference to this event in Revenge of the Sith being that I haven't read Darth Plageus yet) was always a particularly potent image for me simply because I felt like it was the biggest betrayal of Bane's rule. The thing I always took most from the Rule of Two was that it's most important component was the apprentice challenging the master to a duel after learning everything worth learning from the master. This was bascially the focus of Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil and it distraught Bane very much when Zannah appeared reluctant to challenge him. The entire purpose of the Rule of Two was to ensure that the Sith would always grow stronger with each new apprentice. This was guarenteed by the inevitable battle between the master and the apprentice which would prove who deserved to carry on the order and to train a new apprentice. Palpatine having killed his master as he slept felt reminiscent of Bane's point that, before the Rule of Two, apprentices would kill masters through trickery (teaming up with other apprentices, taking advantage of vulnerablity etc) thus resulting in a weaker master who had not proved himself or herself worth of carrying on the lineage.
It does not bother me that Sidious had multiple apprentices or that he trained Maul while still under Plagueis' tutelage - as you pointed out, Zannah did just this when she planned to take Set Harth as her apprentice. I was merely refering to the manner by which Sidious murdered his master. Perhaps this situation between Plagueis and Sidious was altered by Luceno in Darth Plagueis but assuming it wasn't, I feel that Sidious blantantly betrayed the Rule of Two in the way he ascended to master.
All of that being said, I enjoyed the points you made about Sidious being right in abandoning the rule after taking over the galaxy. I had not seen it in that way initially but have come to agree with you that the time had come where it was ok to abandon the Rule of Two. So I'll revoke any implication I made that Sidious betrayed the Rule of Two (with counter-productive results) aside for the manner by which he murdered Plagueis.
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