Posted by Joygirl (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone else noticed this?

- Norman Osborn gave up his image/persona to pretend to be Captain Ironmerica

- Mac Gargan, after stealing the Venom persona, used it to try to be Spider-Man.

- There have been like three Hobgoblins, which is already dangerously close to Green Goblin.

- Now Otto Octavius is pretending to be Spider-Man.

- Even Punisher, who was originally a Spidey foe, has been stealing everyone else's toys like the biggest kid on the playground, as if his own set of tools was insufficient.

Am I seeing too deeply into this, or is there a serious trend here? I mean, we all know Spidey foes are a bit lackadaisical, but do their own personas really mean so little to them?

-Edit: This was my 4,000th post. ^_^ Accidentally.

#1 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Huh. Now that you mention it, that does seem to be a recurring theme. Good call

#2 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Osborn was trying to spite Tony

Mac Gargan is loser so yeah(also Norman convinced him to be spiderman)

The last two hobgoblins took the name because they killed imposter of Kingsley and they did it to spite him(that is why he killed Macendale and tried to kill Urich)

I am not sure about Otto and Punisher, but I believe the Punisher has the whole fight fire with fire mentality.

#3 Posted by Joygirl (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: Excuses, excuses. :P

#4 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

Well it is not really an excuse for Osborn and Gargan more of common sense. Osborn was director of HAMMER he would not lead an Avengers team as the Green Goblin and Ares kinda explains why in dark Avengers 1. Mac Gargan can not be on a team as Venom, especially with his eating people problem. If they went around as "heroes" like that the public would not trust them.

#5 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

I hadn't thought about it that way. It's a good theme to suggest people can change I suppose. If it's been done on purpose.

#6 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

- Even Punisher, who was originally a Spidey foe, has been stealing everyone else's toys like the biggest kid on the playground, as if his own set of tools was insufficient.

Joygirl, seriously this is not him having no sense of identity. This is him using his f***ing brain. Punisher lives in a universe filled with nigh invulnerable demi-gods. Teflon bullets aren't gonna cut it. He should have started doing that a long time ago. In fact it's a miracle he isn't even dead yet. If he plans on continuing his career of vigilante serial killer in a universe where an entirely human crime boss with a big enough bank account can hire an energy controlling super-alien to kill the Punisher. The man should be packing something better then .50 caliber rounds lol.

@Joygirl said:

Am I seeing too deeply into this

Yes because that could be a genuinely intelligent narrative device for Marvel to build on. And we're talking about the company that wrote Ultimatum and OMD :P

#7 Posted by Joygirl (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crom-Cruach: I was grasping at straws with Punisher, I'll admit. :P

#8 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@Crom-Cruach: I was grasping at straws with Punisher, I'll admit. :P

It's O.K I forgive you for being wrong.

#9 Posted by Joygirl (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crom-Cruach: In that case, your firstborn, soul, and all of your cheetos are mine now.

#10 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8737 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@Crom-Cruach: In that case, your firstborn, soul, and all of your cheetos are mine now.

I have no soul, I used it all up mastering dark necromancy, my first born was sacrificed in a powerful ritual of ascension and I ate all the cheetos yesterday :P

#11 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: You forgot Kraven the Hunter. He also pretended to be Spider-Man for a bit. It's been a while since I've read "Kraven's Last Hunt", but I'm pretty sure he even talked about how he was a "Superior" Spider-Man to Spider-Man.

Also Mysterio, who pretended to be Spider-Man in his first appearance. And of course Chameleon, who made his entire career out of impersonating Spider-Man.

Man, I'm starting to wonder if there's a Spider-Man villain that HASN'T been Spider-Man at some point now. Real original idea there Mr. Slott.

#12 Posted by k4tzm4n (36444 posts) - - Show Bio
@Moonchilde: Yes, Kraven needed to prove to himself that he was better than the "spyder."
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#13 Posted by danhimself (22294 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde: Rhino...but only because he tried the costume on, looked in the mirror, decided that no one would believe him, and went back to running into walls

#14 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@Moonchilde: Rhino...but only because he tried the costume on, looked in the mirror, decided that no one would believe him, and went back to running into walls

LOL! Now THAT'S a story I would pay to read!

#15 Posted by danhimself (22294 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

@danhimself said:

@Moonchilde: Rhino...but only because he tried the costume on, looked in the mirror, decided that no one would believe him, and went back to running into walls

LOL! Now THAT'S a story I would pay to read!

now I just want someone to draw the Rhino with a Spider-man suit stretched over him, standing in front of a mirror and shaking his head

#16 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

I pretty much took that in stride. I haven't read too much of Spider-Man but his rogue gallery did seem to have some similarities between each other, or taking on another's persona. Then there was the Dark Avengers and the Dark X-Men where the idea was really milked at and it came off annoying. Considering how long Spider-Man has been in the biz, this sort of thing happening isn't a surprise.

#17 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

@Joygirl: You forgot Kraven the Hunter. He also pretended to be Spider-Man for a bit. It's been a while since I've read "Kraven's Last Hunt", but I'm pretty sure he even talked about how he was a "Superior" Spider-Man to Spider-Man.

Also Mysterio, who pretended to be Spider-Man in his first appearance. And of course Chameleon, who made his entire career out of impersonating Spider-Man.

Man, I'm starting to wonder if there's a Spider-Man villain that HASN'T been Spider-Man at some point now. Real original idea there Mr. Slott.

Vulture? Electro? Shocker?

#18 Posted by muhabba (293 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems to me that Spider-Man's villains are stuck being themselves while trying to escape their identities and failing. No matter who or what they become they always return to their old selves.

#19 Posted by SC (12721 posts) - - Show Bio

Good observation however... how do you feel about the idea the characters do have a good sense of self, just not in the sense that they hold their superhero identities closely and dear to them. In this sense you could say their sense of self could be overblown, that they could change their mask and fool you although in some cases their has been legit character development.

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#20 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantastic catch! But honestly, it probably can be attributed to inferiority complexes or just plain... boredom?

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#21 Posted by batkevin74 (10423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Has anyone else noticed this?

- Norman Osborn gave up his image/persona to pretend to be Captain Ironmerica

- Mac Gargan, after stealing the Venom persona, used it to try to be Spider-Man.

- There have been like three Hobgoblins, which is already dangerously close to Green Goblin.

- Now Otto Octavius is pretending to be Spider-Man.

- Even Punisher, who was originally a Spidey foe, has been stealing everyone else's toys like the biggest kid on the playground, as if his own set of tools was insufficient.

Am I seeing too deeply into this, or is there a serious trend here? I mean, we all know Spidey foes are a bit lackadaisical, but do their own personas really mean so little to them?

-Edit: This was my 4,000th post. ^_^ Accidentally.

Eddie Brock became Venom then Anti-Venom, there's been two Vultures, two Rhino's (the original even got smart for a while), Hydro-Man and Sandman merged for a while.

The only real consistent is The Shocker

#22 Posted by MysteriousUsername (1210 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting point, although I think it's a thing that effects most Spider-Man related characters. Heck, even Peter himself has used several identities at one point.

The only Spidey foe I can think of that hasn't had a replacement or changed their name is Electro.

#23 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a trend here you're missing. With the exception of the Hobgoblin, whose identity was always a convoluted mess, all of these identity issues have come as a result of the modern Marvel era, which is to be quite frank, a creative black hole that is killing the company.  
 
I don't think it's an issue of Spider-Man's villains lacking a sense of self, it's a case of writers having no idea what they're doing and resorting to incredibly feeble and unoriginal "ideas".