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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, hi for those who are either A) too young to remember or B) just do not care. Spawn was a HUGE freaking deal in the Comic Industry. During the 90s, Marvel and DC were such ***holes to there writers that they had forced a lot of the top talent to band together and form Image Comics. The guys who made Darkness, Witchblade, Savage Dragon, Invincible, and now Luther Strode . The biggest Comic they made in sales and fame however was Spawn!

Spawn was a huge Sensation. A major win! Spawn Comic outsold Spider Man, Superman, and Batman for the longest running yet of any non Marvel/DC comic. It was great artwork, mature plot and interaction, as well filled with new ideas.

Well now and days, no one knows much about Spawn other than the costume :\ it happens to the best stuff in life and history.

Why I brought that up? Today a friend of mine post this little bit to me.

@strider92

What you didn't hear lol? Gaiman won a lawsuit against McFarlane and has control over Angela and Medieval Spawn who are now both going to be introduced in Marvel Now!

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/09/marvel-reveals-the-new-look-of-angela

Angela Marvel Now!

My reaction.

I made that look and everything.

The Article above sates Neil has won the eternal Lawsuit vs Mcfarlan for Angela and Midevil Spawn. Who is Angela and Midevil Spawn?

For reference of both, click here.

Angela Battles are located in the Classic Spawn Battles section and the First Age Ending Section. She Battles Spawn, helps against Urizen and a Heavenly Host, as well does the beat down on Malbolgia. Midevil Spawn had a major fight out with Violator. His battle located in Violator part.

Now that is out of the way. This is how I feel. 1 of 3 things may happen.

1) Spawn will somehow be adapted into Marvel Universe via Midevil Spawn, Angela is already in Marvel Now. This in turn will mess up the entire establish lore and respected history of said characters. Where Wild Cats and Captain Marvel still retain their background history in DC universe, the fact Spawn is still somewhat printed by Image will mean the Canon, Lore, and all IP that makes Spawn will be gone for Marvel Angela and Midevil Spawn.

2) This use of character with respected history and a fan base will be used and abused for the purpose of a quick shock and awe for the upcoming Guardian of the Universe Comics, which in turn is a result of the shameless driven movie I am sure, and then be thrusted back into Obscurity and never again be used by Image due to lawsuits, or Marvel who just treat some of their best characters like garbage.

3) The Planets align, Jesus descends from Heaven with beers, and all is right in the world. Spawn transfers effortlessly into Marvel through this window with hopes of outselling DC Superman titles again. Not Batman though, Spawn already fought Batman, Batman showed him what was what lol.

The point is in the end of the day, which of these 3 looks like the less chance of? I am a bit worried, and it is not for the fact this Angela may not come out as good. However they twist it, her character, her origins, as well her powers origin will be muddled. Same with Midevil Spawn if they use him at all.

I mean look at the facts, beside the Ghost Rider Comics and a few one shots elsewhere, Marvel makes few claims of a Religious God in the Marvel Omniverse. I have proof of the claims, creations, and statements of a Jewish, Muslim, and Christian God in Marvel. Comics, like Tomb of Dracula, Ghost Rider, Son of Satan, and many more show there is a Faith Base God.

What does this rant have to do with Spawn and Angela, well if you have not figure it out yet.... both characters deal heavily with Christian and Jewish faith base Religion. Their very source of power derives from it. Ghost Rider is the same way. People who are Marvel Fans, no idea why, think a being as powerful as GR is and gets said power from something other than a Space God (i.e. Power Cosmic) should not be. Odin who is the head god of a far older and obscure real life religion, Norse Mythology, has more acceptance than any mono god religion character in Marvel.

This is important to me as I enjoy the mythology of current and long dead religions over Marvel hierarchy of Celestial, Cosmic Cube Beings, and Galactus himself. The Space Gods are really nothing more than a unimaginative, freaking 5 year old, Space Robot God thought process. This matters as both Spawn and Angela rely on the Religious background as characters they were and are to fans.

I just hate to see Angela become a poor mans Valkyrie for Odin or some garbage. I feel Marvel may trample on the fan base already establish to use what they can and toss to the wind 2 great characters and both who have a lot of potential as major players in Marvel.

I am not a huge fan of DC stuff, but they have it right in Universe Hierarchy in that Magical and Religious beings being the most powerful versus Marvels Cosmic Power bandwagon. I hate to see these 2 characters fall into the Ghost Rider side of things, obscurity and bad movies.

Discuss how you all may feel or think it will play out. Curious on anyone with more info.

To end my thoughts and fears.

#2 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Spawn (Jim Downing and Al Simmons) are still owned by McFarlane and Image no need to worry about that. Gaiman just gets to take Angela and Medieval Spawn apparently. Angela appears in Age Of Ultron 10 and Medieval Spawn has yet to set a date but he'll most likely be nothing like the Image version (new origin etc..) so don't panic lol!

#3 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6286 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Medieval Spawn is going to Marvel. I haven't heard anything confirmed anyway.

#4 Posted by mk111 (3140 posts) - - Show Bio

I...don't think it'd be that bad. Actually, it could be fun seeing Spawn and Ghost Rider interact!

#5 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

And once again, great characters get screwed over and turned to other companies (anyone remember DC's Captain Marvel lawsuit?)

#6 Edited by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't exactly get this

One,the thing about Religion,and Two,we haven't even see how Angela is turning out in GotG and already we assume that Marvel screwed up the character? Can we,for the sake of Christs Holy Balls just see her before we judge without even seeing the character in action and blindly blaming the entire company of Marvel?!

Not saying they won't mess her up,but I don't even remember seeing her in the comic?

And the thing about Galactus....I still don't see the issue? We use an outdated 1970s image for him,and a completely different image for the other guy.......*I am really confused*

And the thing about the characters getting their powers from Christian and Jewish religions....I don't get it....

#7 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

And once again, great characters get screwed over and turned to other companies (anyone remember DC's Captain Marvel lawsuit?)

did he turn out bad?

#8 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Well he was created by Gaiman with no participation from McFarlane and Gaiman won his case so he is free to do with it as he wishes and as Medieval Spawn was one of the characters in dispute it could happen........unfortunately.

#9 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33367 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @strider92: Medieval is not going to Marvel, it was part of the deal between Tod and Neil that if one get's Angela the other get's Medieval Spawn

#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

And once again, great characters get screwed over and turned to other companies (anyone remember DC's Captain Marvel lawsuit?)

My Fears stem from... shudder.

@mk111 said:

I...don't think it'd be that bad. Actually, it could be fun seeing Spawn and Ghost Rider interact!

would be cool and Midevil spawn is a good match for Street level Blaze.

I don't think Medieval Spawn is going to Marvel. I haven't heard anything confirmed anyway.

He got the rights to Midevil Spawn. It is his to do with and I am sure he might throw him in as well. angela is a bigger name, why not throw in Midevil Spawn who had 1 shot comic?

@cadencev2: Spawn (Jim Downing and Al Simmons) are still owned by McFarlane and Image no need to worry about that. Gaiman just gets to take Angela and Medieval Spawn apparently. Angela appears in Age Of Ultron 10 and Medieval Spawn has yet to set a date but he'll most likely be nothing like the Image version (new origin etc..) so don't panic lol!

That is not the point. The point is Mid Evil spawn could get thrown in the mix and this begs the question how they will fug his origins and power origins up?! Seriously Spawn was such a cash cow in the 90s. You really think for a second they will not try to cash in in some way with the rights they can have to Midevil Spawn?

As for Angela, we have a long establish history, how are they going to treat it?

#11 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't exactly see the problem here?

One,the thing about Religion,and Two,we haven't even see how Angela is turning out in GotG and already we assume that Marvel screwed up the character? Can we,for the sake of Christs Holy Balls just see her before we judge without even seeing the character in action and blindly blaming the entire company of Marvel?!

Did we even see her yet?

And the thing about Galactus....I still don't see the issue? We use an outdated 1970s image for him,and a completely different image for the other guy.......*I am really confused*

On that note, I still think Galactus looks more like a God in that image.


#12 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @strider92: Medieval is not going to Marvel, it was part of the deal between Tod and Neil that if one get's Angela the other get's Medieval Spawn

Please tell me this isn't a joke because I will hug you! I heard he got both! You my friend get a hug:

image

#13 Edited by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

I don't exactly see the problem here?

One,the thing about Religion,and Two,we haven't even see how Angela is turning out in GotG and already we assume that Marvel screwed up the character? Can we,for the sake of Christs Holy Balls just see her before we judge without even seeing the character in action and blindly blaming the entire company of Marvel?!

Did we even see her yet?

And the thing about Galactus....I still don't see the issue? We use an outdated 1970s image for him,and a completely different image for the other guy.......*I am really confused*

On that note, I still think Galactus looks more like a God in that image.

Well he does,doesn't he? :)

And I mean,I can also argue that I think a guy that looks less earthly would be an obvious choice as a god. I mean,really? Having a character in human form but just given powers,if that is the freaking case then most every character with super powers can be considered "a god".

#14 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6286 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @strider92: Oh, I know. I was just saying I don't think there's any news of plans for such a thing. Maybe it could happen.

Would they have to change his name though?

#15 Edited by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

Would they have to change his name though?

Evil-Dark-Deadpool-Spider-man-Guy?

#16 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose
I'd imagine not. If they got the rights to the character, they'd get to keep the name along with it.

@cameron83
Agreed.

#17 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29500 posts) - - Show Bio

How are you just now hearing about this?

#18 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

@limpoyzloan said:

And once again, great characters get screwed over and turned to other companies (anyone remember DC's Captain Marvel lawsuit?)

did he turn out bad?

Course not, but DC ran Fawcett out of business mostly because of it.

#19 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: Some people dig the space God concept. Some people dig the Lucifer Morning star and Michael of DC over a silly purple Robot guy. Some people dig the God and Satan of Image. I just saying 2 Major Comic Companies use Magic/Religion base tier characters. Marvel uses tin men as there gods.

@jonny_anonymous said:

@cadencev2: @strider92: Medieval is not going to Marvel, it was part of the deal between Tod and Neil that if one get's Angela the other get's Medieval Spawn

Please tell me this isn't a joke because I will hug you! I heard he got both! You my friend get a hug:

Tell it is true? Please do.

Well he does,doesn't he? :)

And I mean,I can also argue that I think a guy that looks less earthly would be an obvious choice as a god. I mean,really? Having a character in human form but just given powers,if that is the freaking case then most every character with super powers can be considered "a god".

Same for Marvel Beings. Look at Galactus, he looks human with Robot Armor. Only the armor looks so goofy and horrible colors :)

#20 Posted by ShadowSwordmaster (14414 posts) - - Show Bio

#21 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

How are you just now hearing about this?

Did you read the OP at the top? I just heard about it from Strider and search 4 different sites to read up on it.

#22 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33367 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by mk111 (3140 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Galactus looks cool....

#24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@cadencev2: @strider92: Medieval is not going to Marvel, it was part of the deal between Tod and Neil that if one get's Angela the other get's Medieval Spawn

Please tell me this isn't a joke because I will hug you! I heard he got both! You my friend get a hug:

Nope no joke, Todd's going to be using a rebooted version of Medieval Spawn soon actually

McFarlane on "Spawn" #250, Angela's Marvel Debut & Haunt's Return

AH SWEET MADONNA!!!! Thank you so much for the link!

#25 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: Some people dig the space God concept. Some people dig the Lucifer Morning star and Michael of DC over a silly purple Robot guy. Some people dig the God and Satan of Image. I just saying 2 Major Comic Companies use Magic/Religion base tier characters. Marvel uses tin men as there gods.

@strider92 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@cadencev2: @strider92: Medieval is not going to Marvel, it was part of the deal between Tod and Neil that if one get's Angela the other get's Medieval Spawn

Please tell me this isn't a joke because I will hug you! I heard he got both! You my friend get a hug:

Tell it is true? Please do.

@cameron83 said:

Well he does,doesn't he? :)

And I mean,I can also argue that I think a guy that looks less earthly would be an obvious choice as a god. I mean,really? Having a character in human form but just given powers,if that is the freaking case then most every character with super powers can be considered "a god".

Same for Marvel Beings. Look at Galactus, he looks human with Robot Armor. Only the armor looks so goofy and horrible colors :)

ok he kinda does,but regarding the second thing he can (and has) looked amazing in the past.It's just an artist thing....

But still I am really confused,what's the bad thing here and I didn't really get the part about religion.In no way am I belittling your point or anything,but I am honestly confused.

#26 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@mk111: He does.

Honestly, this just seems like a Marvel trash talk topic.

#27 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@mk111 said:

I think Galactus looks cool....

Heh, preference right?

#28 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@mk111 said:

I think Galactus looks cool....

I second this......

The guy looks Godly.

#29 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru said:

@mk111:

He does.

Honestly, this just seems like a Marvel trash talk topic.

Get over it. I own nothing but Ultimate Marvel Comics, Ghost Riders, Gunslingers, Son of Satans, Werewolf by Nights, and New Avengers comics.

Stop being a hater cause I made the opinion the Marvel Hierarchy is dumb and afraid somehow Spawn (not the case now thank god) and Angela would be scarred by it.

#30 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2
Hater is a stupid word. That's for another time.

No, this whole thread while informative about what happened between the two, also just pretty much knocks on Marvel. Don't get so defensive in that case.

You trash talked on Galactus, I said he looked cool. You then proceeded to call him "The Tin Man". It honestly just sounded like you hated Marvel and Galactus. Wording helps.

#31 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: The religion point is the fact the Characters Midevil Spawn and Angela are steeped in it. Marvel is the only Comic company that has very little Religion concept to it.

Angela and Spawn in Religion base Image universe does good.

Angela and Spawn in a near non existant Religion base Marvel Verse seems bad.

Its like growing roses in a desert for all the lack of spirituality in Marvel comics :/

#32 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2

Hater is a stupid word. That's for another time.

No, this whole thread while informative about what happened between the two, also just pretty much knocks on Marvel. Don't get so defensive in that case.

You trash talked on Galactus, I said he looked cool. You then proceeded to call him "The Tin Man". It honestly just sounded like you hated Marvel and Galactus. Wording helps.

I second this....

And besides,Angela could turn out great (I personally like her new costume,although I wish it had more things added to it.I don't want her to look like some Sponsored Nascar trophy,but at the same time I liked all of the Trophy add-ons.Although her old costume needed to be updated a bit since she wore basically the same thing as Starfire).

#33 Edited by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@cameron83: The religion point is the fact the Characters Midevil Spawn and Angela are steeped in it. Marvel is the only Comic company that has very little Religion concept to it.

Angela and Spawn in Religion base Image universe does good.

Angela and Spawn in a near non existant Religion base Marvel Verse seems bad.

Its like growing roses in a desert for all the lack of spirituality in Marvel comics :/

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

#34 Posted by Z3RO180 (6536 posts) - - Show Bio

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180 said:

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

I can see that, I like detail. I think the Gold on new Angela is gawdy Gold. The Older Angela color was Gladiator and weathered look to it.

The New Angela looks like a Naked Female Knight. The older Angela looked to me more of a Gladiator and livier with all the going on and detail.

Preference. New Angela looks water down and simple. Older one looked like a snap shot on the battlefield.

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

Marvel has Myhtology and it 9/10s evolve around Asgardians or Eldar Gods. One of my main fears is Angela fitting in as only a half but Valkyrie.

DC has more "Modern Day" Spiritual theme to it as does Image.

That is a better way to say it. Marvel has nearly zero "Modern Day" Spiritual background that Spawn and Angela fit into. the most they have is in Ghost Rider which most people on the Vine are ignorant to. Its all Odin, Thor, Hercules, and Dr. Strange for Spirituality.

#36 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180 said:

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

I can see that, I like detail. I think the Gold on new Angela is gawdy Gold. The Older Angela color was Gladiator and weathered look to it.

The New Angela looks like a Naked Female Knight. The older Angela looked to me more of a Gladiator and livier with all the going on and detail.

Preference. New Angela looks water down and simple. Older one looked like a snap shot on the battlefield.

@cameron83 said:

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

Marvel has Myhtology and it 9/10s evolve around Asgardians or Eldar Gods. One of my main fears is Angela fitting in as only a half but Valkyrie.

DC has more "Modern Day" Spiritual theme to it as does Image.

That is a better way to say it. Marvel has nearly zero "Modern Day" Spiritual background that Spawn and Angela fit into. the most they have is in Ghost Rider which most people on the Vine are ignorant to. Its all Odin, Thor, Hercules, and Dr. Strange for Spirituality.

not really.I mean,while the Norse gods do have a large influence,so do other religious themed characters.And ghost rider isn't really their main port for Christian elements.I mean,what about Son of Satan,Mephisto,Magik,etc... They have FAR more than just Norse themes.I mean,while the Norse one is basically the most delved into,it isn't the only one,and it isn't the only one with profound influence and connections. There is also MK (but not really a main religion,or even one at all). And heck,we see a lot of Hell in the Marvel Universe and all of the connections it has (and with Demons,like with DD)...so.....

#37 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@sideburnguru: I just hate Galactus, Celestials, Franklin Richards, Shaper of Worlds, Kubik, Beyonder, Eternity, Silver Surfer, and most of the Cosmic line up.

I be happy with just Dr. Strange, Vishanti, Odin, Zeus, Modern Day Religions God, Dormammu, Shuma Gorath, and Death as the head honchos.

Phoenix can stay as well, she has a mythology feel to her as Phoenix.

#38 Edited by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2
Alright, so I get and respect your opinion then.

So you DO hate Galactus. That's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I like alot of those characters you mentioned.

#39 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (33367 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@z3ro180 said:

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

I can see that, I like detail. I think the Gold on new Angela is gawdy Gold. The Older Angela color was Gladiator and weathered look to it.

The New Angela looks like a Naked Female Knight. The older Angela looked to me more of a Gladiator and livier with all the going on and detail.

Preference. New Angela looks water down and simple. Older one looked like a snap shot on the battlefield.

@cameron83 said:

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

Marvel has Myhtology and it 9/10s evolve around Asgardians or Eldar Gods. One of my main fears is Angela fitting in as only a half but Valkyrie.

DC has more "Modern Day" Spiritual theme to it as does Image.

That is a better way to say it. Marvel has nearly zero "Modern Day" Spiritual background that Spawn and Angela fit into. the most they have is in Ghost Rider which most people on the Vine are ignorant to. Its all Odin, Thor, Hercules, and Dr. Strange for Spirituality.

not really.I mean,while the Norse gods do have a large influence,so do other religious themed characters.And ghost rider isn't really their main port for Christian elements.I mean,what about Son of Satan,Mephisto,Magik,etc... They have FAR more than just Norse themes.I mean,while the Norse one is basically the most delved into,it isn't the only one,and it isn't the only one with profound influence and connections. There is also MK (but not really a main religion,or even one at all). And heck,we see a lot of Hell in the Marvel Universe and all of the connections it has (and with Demons,like with DD)...so.....

Angela isn't going to be an angel in Marvel, she's going to be an alien

#40 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

....what's wrong with cosmic diversity?!

#41 Edited by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@z3ro180 said:

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

I can see that, I like detail. I think the Gold on new Angela is gawdy Gold. The Older Angela color was Gladiator and weathered look to it.

The New Angela looks like a Naked Female Knight. The older Angela looked to me more of a Gladiator and livier with all the going on and detail.

Preference. New Angela looks water down and simple. Older one looked like a snap shot on the battlefield.

@cameron83 said:

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

Marvel has Myhtology and it 9/10s evolve around Asgardians or Eldar Gods. One of my main fears is Angela fitting in as only a half but Valkyrie.

DC has more "Modern Day" Spiritual theme to it as does Image.

That is a better way to say it. Marvel has nearly zero "Modern Day" Spiritual background that Spawn and Angela fit into. the most they have is in Ghost Rider which most people on the Vine are ignorant to. Its all Odin, Thor, Hercules, and Dr. Strange for Spirituality.

not really.I mean,while the Norse gods do have a large influence,so do other religious themed characters.And ghost rider isn't really their main port for Christian elements.I mean,what about Son of Satan,Mephisto,Magik,etc... They have FAR more than just Norse themes.I mean,while the Norse one is basically the most delved into,it isn't the only one,and it isn't the only one with profound influence and connections. There is also MK (but not really a main religion,or even one at all). And heck,we see a lot of Hell in the Marvel Universe and all of the connections it has (and with Demons,like with DD)...so.....

Angela isn't going to be an angel in Marvel, she's going to be an alien

What...Da.....quack?

But still,my point stands......

#42 Edited by HumanRocket (8143 posts) - - Show Bio

The only reason why I keep reading AOU is to see how there going to introduce Angela into the MU. So far the book has gone so many different ways that I'm really just wondering how she will be introduced

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: But that is the think. Alot of Comics that are not Norse or Greek Mythology (Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Son of Satan, Dracula, Black Knight, ect) all have a huge common theme. They are obscure and low sellers.

Also the Demons and Hell Lords are more in connection with Odin than Modern Day Religion. Most of them are Patheon Demons and Helllords with Mephisto being more in line with dormammu as a powerful Magic Being rather than the devil himself.

Infact you know who is the true devil in Marvel Comics? Guido.... from X-factor.

WTH......

I do not want that for Angela to become some obscure and mishandle character for Marvel becuase she is in line with that non Norse Greek theme.

@cadencev2

Alright, so I get and respect your opinion then.

So you DO hate Galactus. That's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I like alot of those characters you mentioned.

I do hate Galactus, no denying that, and as I said its all preference and taste. It relates how I feel the connection of Angela to the taste I like to taste I do not.

#44 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Angela isn't going to be an angel in Marvel, she's going to be an alien

**** Neil Gamain, and his Sandman sucked. I am so upset....

#45 Edited by Night Thrasher (3689 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I think you misremember how Image actually started. Marvel were such HUGE @$$holes that they gave the artists who eventually founded the company FULL creative control over some of the most popular characters they had. Jim Lee had X-Men, Liefeld had X-Force, MacFarlane had Spider-Man, Larsen had Amazing until he took over for MacFarlane, etc...

The real reason they left was to get paid for their "totally original" creations. Of course Jim Lee had WildC.A.T.s which was absolutely nothing like X-Men, MacFarlane had Spawn which was nothing like either Venom or Ghost Rider and Larsen had Savage Dragon which was a total 180 from Hulk.

Not saying that I didn't read some of the books. Because I actually collected Savage Dragon and Spawn for a while until I stopped reading comics a while back. But, to say you didn't want to waste your talent on characters you didn't create and then create characters that are carbon copies of the characters you just stopped writing seems like more of the @$$hole move to me than giving someone creative reigns over some of the most popular characters in comics.

Online
#46 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I think you misremember how Image actually started. Marvel were such HUGE @$$holes that they gave the artists who eventually founded the company FULL creative control over some of the most popular characters they had. Jim Lee had X-Men, Liefeld had X-Force, MacFarlane had Spider-Man, Larsen had Amazing until he took over for MacFarlane, etc...

The real reason they left was to get paid for their "totally original" creations. Of course Jim Lee had WildC.A.T.s which was absolutely nothing like X-Men, MacFarlane had Spawn which was nothing like either Venom or Ghost Rider and Larsen had Savage Dragon which was a total 180 from Hulk.

Not saying that I didn't read some of the books. Because I actually collected Savage Dragon and Spawn for a while until I stopped reading comics a while back. But, to say you didn't want to waste your talent on characters you didn't create and then create characters that are carbon copies of the characters you just stopped writing seems like more of the @$$hole move to me than giving someone creative reigns over some of the most popular characters in comics.

I am not sure if agreeing or not.

I think the fact Todd created Venom and had his said character sell millions of toys, comic spin offs, and merchandise, yet never saw a penny for it.... that makes Marvel huge @$$holes.....

Are you agreeing? Or just adding more to the info?

#47 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: But that is the think. Alot of Comics that are not Norse or Greek Mythology (Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Son of Satan, Dracula, Black Knight, ect) all have a huge common theme. They are obscure and low sellers.

Also the Demons and Hell Lords are more in connection with Odin than Modern Day Religion. Most of them are Patheon Demons and Helllords with Mephisto being more in line with dormammu as a powerful Magic Being rather than the devil himself.

Infact you know who is the true devil in Marvel Comics? Guido.... from X-factor.

WTH......

I do not want that for Angela to become some obscure and mishandle character for Marvel becuase she is in line with that non Norse Greek theme.

@sideburnguru said:

@cadencev2

Alright, so I get and respect your opinion then.

So you DO hate Galactus. That's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I like alot of those characters you mentioned.

I do hate Galactus, no denying that, and as I said its all preference and taste. It relates how I feel the connection of Angela to the taste I like to taste I do not.

...So they only Cater to the Norse themes?

I mean,this is still ignoring a lot of characters and concepts (I can't dig through my comics now).....

#48 Posted by cameron83 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@z3ro180 said:

See in the last pic you posted I need to say I think the ''new'' look for angelamis much better than her old one it looks less cluttered

I can see that, I like detail. I think the Gold on new Angela is gawdy Gold. The Older Angela color was Gladiator and weathered look to it.

The New Angela looks like a Naked Female Knight. The older Angela looked to me more of a Gladiator and livier with all the going on and detail.

Preference. New Angela looks water down and simple. Older one looked like a snap shot on the battlefield.

@cameron83 said:

But Marvel has many spiritual concepts (one can argue the same with DC). I mean,especially considering All of the Thor Mythos (Norse),Ghost Rider mythos,Mephisto,Magik, (Christian elements),etc. I mean,Marvel and DC aren't as profound with Religion as Image is,but they still have more than enough religious themes...In fact,they have a lot,even being more diverse.

Point is,while Image obviously is much more involved in Spiritual themes (more than Marvel and DC),they still have many religious themes.Not as much,but still a HELLUVA lot....I mean,with all of the themes packed into the two (especially with characters like Spectre,Shazam,Captain Marvel,Dr Fate,etc for DC) I think they have far more than enough. And they even pack in things from other religions.In fact,I think Marvel and DC are far more spiritually diverse than Image is (although Image goes deeper with Christian themes)

Marvel has Myhtology and it 9/10s evolve around Asgardians or Eldar Gods. One of my main fears is Angela fitting in as only a half but Valkyrie.

DC has more "Modern Day" Spiritual theme to it as does Image.

That is a better way to say it. Marvel has nearly zero "Modern Day" Spiritual background that Spawn and Angela fit into. the most they have is in Ghost Rider which most people on the Vine are ignorant to. Its all Odin, Thor, Hercules, and Dr. Strange for Spirituality.

not really.I mean,while the Norse gods do have a large influence,so do other religious themed characters.And ghost rider isn't really their main port for Christian elements.I mean,what about Son of Satan,Mephisto,Magik,etc... They have FAR more than just Norse themes.I mean,while the Norse one is basically the most delved into,it isn't the only one,and it isn't the only one with profound influence and connections. There is also MK (but not really a main religion,or even one at all). And heck,we see a lot of Hell in the Marvel Universe and all of the connections it has (and with Demons,like with DD)...so.....

Angela isn't going to be an angel in Marvel, she's going to be an alien

Wait,where was this stated?

#49 Edited by Night Thrasher (3689 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: David Michelinie created Venom before MacFarlanIe came along. Todd MacFarlane was just the first to draw the first on panel appearence of Venom. Plus, without Spider-Man Venom sells nothing. But I digress...

I'm disagreeing with the whole premise of MacFarlane's side of the argument. Not creator rights, because a lot of creator owned comics are great and Image is putting out some right now. Leave it to Chance is a great example of the creator owned argument. It was original, not a carbon copy of amything else, although influences from adulescent novels. But, the Image founders were championing creator rights with characters that were more homage than original. To me the whole "I created this but didn't get paid" argument is shallow. MacFarlane was PAID as work-for-hire for his work at Marvel. Same as me, I create engines at my job. I get paid as work for hire by the company. I don't ask for percentages once I see how successful that engine works in the car. I do my part and I got paid, same as MacFarlane. And MacFarlane would argue same with Gaiman. I agree with creator rights but the Image guys wouldn't be the guys I want to champion that cause.

Online
#50 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: David Michelinie created Venom before MacFarlanIe came along. Todd MacFarlane was just the first to draw the first on panel appearence of Venom. Plus, without Spider-Man Venom sells nothing. But I digress...

I'm disagreeing with the whole premise of MacFarlane's side of the argument. Not creator rights, because a lot of creator owned comics are great and Image is putting out some right now. Leave it to Chance is a great example of the creator owned argument. It was original, not a carbon copy of amything else, although influences from adulescent novels. But, the Image founders were championing creator rights with characters that were more homage than original. To me the whole "I created this but didn't get paid" argument is shallow. MacFarlane was PAID as work-for-hire for his work at Marvel. Same as me, I create engines at my job. I get paid as work for hire by the company. I don't ask for percentages once I see how successful that engine works in the car. I do my part and I got paid, same as MacFarlane. And MacFarlane would argue same with Gaiman. I agree with creator rights but the Image guys wouldn't be the guys I want to champion that cause.

All true, it again comes down to what side of the fence you are on. The end result is Image which made some great Comic lines.