Someone please explain what Cyclops did.

If you haven't read AvX 1-11 and intend to read it you should stop looking at this thread now!!!!!

I'm still lost on what is going on in Avengers Vs. X-Men. At first The Phoenix was coming for Hope and everyone knew it. Captain America thinks that The Phoenix will show up and destroy Earth. Cyclops thinks it's coming to help Mutant kind grow. Both seem valid. Captain America comes to Utopia, where pretty much the last of the mutants are (Except for the ones that moves back to the school with Wolverine), and asks Cyclops to turn over Hope to him. Now Cyclops doesn't want to do this, because Hope is the "Mutant Messiah" and the human (Cap and such) haven't really done anything to help mutants, since they became practically extinct. So, in his opinion he doesn't owe them jack. Cap doesn't take this well and fight ensues. Then cut to the Moon where Iron Man comes up with the idea to shoot The Phoenix before it can join Hope. This backfires and the Phoenix Five are born. Together they solve a bunch of Earth's problems. Now somehow Cap and crew still see this as a horrible thing and start attacking the X-Men for whatever reason and get Hope.

Where I'm confused on is what did Cyclops do to make himself seem like a threat other than gaining a fifth of the power of The Phoenix and helping people. This is all pretty much the Avengers trying to fix a problem and making it worse every time they do try, but somehow everyone seems to think that Cyclops is the bad guy. Please explain this to me.

he's trying to help people but hes not really giving them an option about it. offering up ultimatums and acting like an all around dick. and you cant really let an arrogant asshat run around with the power of a god now can you.

i always thought that the piece of the Void that was stuck in cyclops's head might have something to do with his dickish behavior but that happened way to long ago to be relevant.

Is AVX canon?

Well before the Phoenix 5 thing Cable was the one that made the X-men appear as a threat and pretty much caused the whole battle in the first place

@hydrabob: Terrible terrible writing in a terrible terrible arc that, very unfortunately, happened at the same time as a certain movie. Nothing in that story makes sense and I, personally think they are massacring the heroes of my youth.

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Is AVX canon?

It's happening right now, so yeah, it should be and why does that even matter?

@joshmightbe said:

Well before the Phoenix 5 thing Cable was the one that made the X-men appear as a threat and pretty much caused the whole battle in the first place

Okay, well those are two different people though and Cyclops was trying to stop Cable from attacking the Avengers and then Wolverine had come in and end all the work he did to calm him down.

@scuzz2.0: Haven't forgotten about you, cuz I'm very sure that you're wrong. I just need to find 7-9 of AvX for reference.

@hydrabob: Just pointing out with all the people tossing blame at Cap and Cyclops they seem to forget what actually got the Avengers all pissed off and ready for war in the first place.

@hydrabob: But is it for a fact canon?

It matters because from what iv'e read (the first 3 issues) both Cyclops and Wolverine have been super out of character, so I assumed it wasn't canon because the entire thing is ridiculous (again, from what I have read)

@DocFatalis: That sound like Marvel. DC is doing great? Well, we're gonna make the crap we were doing before look even worse and end it by copying a move that DC made, because that made money, but we won't call it the same thing. That would be tacky, even though it is.

@joshmightbe: The way I remember the Avengers and X-men kinda just settled the thing and saw what Cable did as a crazy guy doing something stupid and didn't hold a grudge about it. They settled it quickly and moved on.

@NlGHTCRAWLER: Well, there are so many other books that have stories going around this that I can't see how it wouldn't be and what you're describing as super out of character is how Marvel writers work.

Well...I think Cyclops had good intentions..but he was just too extreme about it, and gaining the Phoenix power only corrupted him more and turned him into a monster imo.

@hydrabob: Haven't seen you post in these forums in a while!

@The Stegman said:

Well...I think Cyclops had good intentions..but he was just too extreme about it, and gaining the Phoenix power only corrupted him more and turned him into a monster imo.

I agree with this.

@hydrabob:

You can't just read "Round 1 through 11"

You need to read the side stories too to get a better understanding of the main plots.

If you just read issues "Round 1" through "Round 11", you are missing a good 15 plus issues of related stories.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

What did we miss about Cyclops?

And it's wantonly stupid if they made it required for the average comicbook reader to read that many to understand an event like this.

@TheCrowbar: I didn't read all of the 15 tie ins. The last side story I read was when Xavier knocked out the Avengers and the Phoenixes.

The "Round" series is pretty much the main battles of the arc.... The side stories explain more of the detail of what's going on. I'm actually waiting for Cable's story to kick in so we know what's really going on here.

@scuzz2.0: U really are a Cyke bashe!r lol!

There's a saying that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Cyclops tried to drown it.

Or perhaps: Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime.

By fixing all of humanity's problems, he's robbed them of the opportunity to work them out themselves. Like giving a child a million dollars: Yeah, the kid'll have a great life, but he'll never learn how to live responsibly, because he doesn't HAVE to learn. Cyclops is basically repeating King Thor's actions, by taking over humanity and using his superpowers to fix the world. Yeah, life is great. People are happy. But they don't learn anything.

Now here's where the complicated hypocrisy comes in: In a way, ALL superheroes are guilty of this in some fashion: By using their powers to stop average thugs, like Spider-Man or Daredevil does, they are effectively doing the same thing on a MUCH smaller scale. Those rules don't apply for supervillains, or in Stark's case, tech, because he designs said tech, so it's his responsibility. By putting on a costume and going out to stop normal crime, they are doing what Cyclops is doing on a small scale. But it's a case of taking a little poison to build up a resistance to a larger dose: Stopping small crimes helps humanity, keeps them around. Because Cyclops is doing it on such a large scale, he's crippling humanity's growth.

To more accurately explain Cap's position in all this: They know, previously, that the Phoenix is a world destroying threat. It trashed so many planets on it's way to Earth other species were TAKING BETS on which would be next. It's logical to assume Earth would end up the same. Scott, and his pals, think the opposite: They believe the Phoenix will build their race back. That's not wrong, but allow me the use of another metaphor (though I recognize I've used many in this post, with varying success):

Say you've got an enemy country with nuclear weapons. Now, the United States knows the dangers of such an arsenal, and thinks the enemy WILL USE IT soon. Said country is hailed as in the right by the inhabitants of it, i.e., they believe their own country is in the right, and don't believe they'll detonate said arsenal. Is the United States wrong for invading the country and attempting to take said weapons, even though the inhabitants say their government won't use them?

(To anyone outside the United States, I apologize if that seems biased, I'm not trying to be, I just picked the first government that I'm familiar with.)

In this case, Cap is the United States, the Phoenix is the nuclear arsenal, and the X-Men are the hopeful inhabitants. Your answer to the above question pretty much determines your positions on the right or wrongness of Cap and Cyclops' actions.

Seriously, sorry for all the metaphors.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

Still no answer to my question...

@The Stegman said:

Well...I think Cyclops had good intentions..but he was just too extreme about it, and gaining the Phoenix power only corrupted him more and turned him into a monster imo.

I agree. You know the sayings " The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" both of which seem to be proving themselves fairly accurate where Cyclops is concerned.

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

Is AVX canon?

Yes it is, unfortuneately. And yes all heros involved are acting way out of character, the part where Namor attacks Wakanda and while people are dying, Captain America was like "See, I told you so, I was right." instead of "Avengers! We need to evac these civilians to safety!" (or something more Cap-like). God when I witnessed that I thru up a little in my mouth. :-(

@TheCrowbar said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

Still no answer to my question...

That's because I don't want to spoil anything for anyone. I'm simply advising the readers and the OP of this thread to read the side stories... They are simple to find since they come out during the same time the Round series come out. At the end of each Round arc at the very last page, there are 2 to 3 sometimes 5 issues that is advertising you to read to keep up with the story.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning:

PM me the spoiler, right now I'm not wasting my money on such a poorly written event.

At 1st Cyclops intention was right for the survival of the mutant race, but now that more of the Phoenix Possesses him, destruction is will be inevitable for Earth a whole. Xavier and Dr. Reed already explained it how the Earth destruction would be inevitable if the Phoenix isn't purged. Emma is already doing the deeds of the Phoenix as she is having all her X-Men worship her. Cyclops will be next. So far, the only sane Phoenix is Namor. Most of the Phoenix influence is gathered within Emma and Scott a close second. As Xavier stated during the meet of issue 29/30, "Each of the 5 are possessed and they have no control over it despite what they believe." Reed stated as soon as Xavier left, "If the Phoenix takes full possession, the Utopia will only harvest slavery to the mutant race while humanity will be destroyed." In during the issues before that while the Avengers were seeking telepaths, Xavier explicitly told Rachel, that he is not for the Avengers nor the Phoenix because he wants to save humanity. He like the rest of the Avengers know that one dos not simply be possessed by the Phoenix and not be tamed. The Phoenix will destroy the Earth.

@OneDoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor: Sorry going to War with Wakanda is sane how?

Also I call BS on Reed's explanation. Both Jean and Rachel had control of the Phoenix for a long time. Mesmero(I think) messed with Jean's mind which caused her to go insane.

They all assumed Cyclops was going insane they never showed why or how.

@evilvegeta74: He actually used to be my favorite X-Man. i just really hate whats been done to him.

@TheCrowbar:

Sorry going to War with Wakanda is sane how?

Because Emma said they were holding Transonic!! =O. Holding Transonic apparently warrants for a very angry, fishy demi god bird thing while getting a mindjob to flood an entire city inhabited by his friends and killing thousands. Seems sane to me.

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@hydrabob: But is it for a fact canon?

It matters because from what iv'e read (the first 3 issues) both Cyclops and Wolverine have been super out of character, so I assumed it wasn't canon because the entire thing is ridiculous (again, from what I have read)

Yes it is cannon. The effects of AvX are going to be relevant in Marvel Now. So yep.

He is channeling Superboy Prime now.

@CaioTrubat:

He's going to write an angry letter to marvel?

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hydrabob:

You can't just read "Round 1 through 11"

You need to read the side stories too to get a better understanding of the main plots.

If you just read issues "Round 1" through "Round 11", you are missing a good 15 plus issues of related stories.

The side stories are you kidding me? Why would I waste my money on those things? The Vs. is just a fight between whoever and whoever and most of the time the person that should win doesn't and it's not like they're out of the series or anything it's pointless. Uncanny X-men is dealing with Mr. Sinister it just happens to have the Phoenix five in it. The side stories don't matter at all. Marvel is just trying to get more of peoples money by saying those are relevant.

@The Stegman said:

Well...I think Cyclops had good intentions..but he was just too extreme about it, and gaining the Phoenix power only corrupted him more and turned him into a monster imo.

I didn't see it that way. Scott should have sat down with Cap, but Cap didn't seem like he was interested in that route either, since he brought the Avengers to Utopia and in comparison to all the other people that got the Phoenix's power he was the one keeping himself together the most. Namor and Emma went completely off the deep end. He just gets all the crap, cuz he's the leader.

@JonSmith: I can see what your trying to say, but when you see how desperate Mutants are now and how they are constantly having they're back pushed up against the wall going to them and saying basically, "Yeah, that last hope you had of rebuilding we're gonna take that away and we never cared that you guys were attacked and hunted and put on the brink of extinction." You can look at it from either point of view and be able to justify yourself, but to me The Avengers have asked the X-Men for help so many times and never been there to return the favor that now when something happens for the X-Men the Avengers should just but out and mind they're own business.

@hydrabob:

UXM further villifies Emma and Xavier.

@TheCrowbar said:

@hydrabob:

UXM further villifies Emma and Xavier.

Wanna elaborate on that?

@hydrabob said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@hydrabob:

UXM further villifies Emma and Xavier.

Wanna elaborate on that?

Emma feeds Scott the memories of starving man looking at a steak and a sauce made of the memories of a cannibal.

Xavier actively tried to shut Scott and Emma's minds off, while the Avengers were trying to kill them.

@hydrabob said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hydrabob:

You can't just read "Round 1 through 11"

You need to read the side stories too to get a better understanding of the main plots.

If you just read issues "Round 1" through "Round 11", you are missing a good 15 plus issues of related stories.

The side stories are you kidding me? Why would I waste my money on those things? The Vs. is just a fight between whoever and whoever and most of the time the person that should win doesn't and it's not like they're out of the series or anything it's pointless. Uncanny X-men is dealing with Mr. Sinister it just happens to have the Phoenix five in it. The side stories don't matter at all. Marvel is just trying to get more of peoples money by saying those are relevant.

@The Stegman said:

Well...I think Cyclops had good intentions..but he was just too extreme about it, and gaining the Phoenix power only corrupted him more and turned him into a monster imo.

I didn't see it that way. Scott should have sat down with Cap, but Cap didn't seem like he was interested in that route either, since he brought the Avengers to Utopia and in comparison to all the other people that got the Phoenix's power he was the one keeping himself together the most. Namor and Emma went completely off the deep end. He just gets all the crap, cuz he's the leader.

@JonSmith: I can see what your trying to say, but when you see how desperate Mutants are now and how they are constantly having they're back pushed up against the wall going to them and saying basically, "Yeah, that last hope you had of rebuilding we're gonna take that away and we never cared that you guys were attacked and hunted and put on the brink of extinction." You can look at it from either point of view and be able to justify yourself, but to me The Avengers have asked the X-Men for help so many times and never been there to return the favor that now when something happens for the X-Men the Avengers should just but out and mind they're own business.

There are some good battles in the side stories. P5 vs Sinister was a good battle. It shows Colossus use the power of Cyttorak to turn huge. There was another issue where Xavier fought the Phoenixes and put them all to sleep. And another where Storm vs Black Panther. The fights are more detailed so it's not really much of a waste of money. You don't even have to buy them. Go to a local book store and read them.

@JonSmith: I loved your post but I have to disagree that by having Cyclops helping them it was also crippling them. The Phoenix five didn't solve every problem with the planet just some. Also because the more server problems are handled, room for growth can increase.

Reed Richards actually blames the Avengers for "poking them with a stick". Namor and Emma seemed to be the ones who became corrupted the fastest. Cyclops (and a special mention to Colossonaut) weren't unstable. Cyke was over zealous about getting Hope back to Utopia but that's because he was trying to do what his son wanted him to do.

I think the Phoenix 5 was commendable in subverting the gratuitous lack of development seen in comicbooks. With all the super geniuses, science, magic, cosmic power, and technology you'd think solving issues like world hunger and ending war would have already been taken care of in comics (without the aid of the phoenix force). They took initiative with their power instead of just reacting.

@KingUranus: But what I'm getting at is that those are pretty much irrelevant to the main story which is all I care about. All of the side books are just extra for the event which they don't need. I haven't seen anything that happened in the side stories effect what is happening in the main story.

@hydrabob: You've asked an excellent question. But a quick clarification; Hope left Utopia by choice with the Scarlett Witch. So she's been with the Avengers since then, but not involved in the fighting until Scott showed up in the "mystical city of Kun Lun" to take her back.... She then (apparently) used the combined powers of the Pheonix, Iron Fist, and Chaos Magic to punch Scott to the moon...

Now, "What did Scott do?" That really is an excellent question. When Captain America said, "Scott Summers, you are under arrest for crimes against humanity..." I found myself wondering EXACTLY WHAT charges would be brought up at Scott's trial, assuming you could GET Scott to a trial... Just try to imagine it!

JUDGE: Captain America. You arrested Scott Summers for crimes against humanity, did you not?

CAP: Yes, your Honor, I did.

JUDGE: Please state the SPECIFIC charges along with dates and times.

CAP: Specific charges? Dates and times?

JUDGE: Yes, the specifics please. What exactly did he do, along with where he did it, when he did it, and to whom...

CAP: Oh, okay. Well.. He absorbed some of the Phoenix Force... on the moon...

JUDGE: Yes well....two things. ONE, the moon is not within the jurisdiction of the World Court... and TWO, there is no law against absorbing the Phoenix Force. None, whatsoever... and besides, wasn't that the fault of your friend Tony Stark who not long ago imprisoned heroes in the negative zone so that they would be out of the Jurisdiction of the courts? Mr. Stark should have explained that to you. This courts Jurisdiction does not extend off the planet...

CAP: Are...Are you sure?

JUDGE: Yes, quite sure. You have to know these things when you're a Judge in a world court. Now, please continue. What crimes did Mr. Summers commit ON THIS PLANET?

CAP: He attacked the mystical city of KUN LUN and tried to abduct Hope Summers against her will!

JUDGE: I see... And this " mystical city " is it ON THIS PLANET?

CAP: Well... I mean... Okay, not EXACTLY... It's sort of in.....a magical dimension.

JUDGE: Well then, that wouldn't be on THIS planet, now would it?

CAP: Well, no... I guess not, but HE DID TRY TO ABDUCT HOPE SUMMERS AGAINST HER WILL!!!

JUDGE: Isn't that EXACTLY what YOU tried to do at the beginning of this fiasco? Didn't you, illegally attack the country of Utopia (outside of your jurisdiction) and try to take Hope Summers against her will? And isn't Utopia actually on this planet?

CAP: so?

JUDGE: Captain, you are a respected hero, certainly there are crimes My. Summers committed here on this planet. Surely, you aren't stupid enough to arrest him without having charges?!

CAP: Well, there's the attack on WAKANDA!!!

JUDGE: Mr. Summers attacked Wakanda?

CAP: Well.. not EXACTLY... King Namor attacked Wakanda.

JUDGE: King Namor, of Atlantis, attacked Wakanda..... and you charge Mr. Summers???

CAP: It's complicated, Your Honor...

JUDGE: Captain, PLEASE, tell me what Mr. Summers did on this planet... Not someone else, and not anywhere else but this planet! What crime did he commit...

CAP: Well... um.... he.... HE DEFENDED HIMSELF ON UTOPIA WHEN WE ATTACKED... And he KILLED Professor Xavier!!!

JUDGE: (Just stares blankly for a moment).. So... YOU attacked Utopia.... and then Mr. Summers fought back.... He killed Professor Xavier, one of the invaders of Utopia, and was killed by Mr. Summers who was defending his home.... By the By, isn't this like the third time Professor X has been killed?

CAP: Third of fourth, but who can keep up...

JUDGE: CASE DISMISSED!!!!!

@Timandm: I like you!

@TheCrowbar: LOL! Thanks! That brings my total number of friends up to..um.. two, I think... Actually, I haven't seen that other person much.. Not since they got that restraining order against me... But I'm still fighting that!

@Timandm said:

@hydrabob: You've asked an excellent question. But a quick clarification; Hope left Utopia by choice with the Scarlett Witch. So she's been with the Avengers since then, but not involved in the fighting until Scott showed up in the "mystical city of Kun Lun" to take her back.... She then (apparently) used the combined powers of the Pheonix, Iron Fist, and Chaos Magic to punch Scott to the moon...

Now, "What did Scott do?" That really is an excellent question. When Captain America said, "Scott Summers, you are under arrest for crimes against humanity..." I found myself wondering EXACTLY WHAT charges would be brought up at Scott's trial, assuming you could GET Scott to a trial... Just try to imagine it!

JUDGE: Captain America. You arrested Scott Summers for crimes against humanity, did you not?

CAP: Yes, your Honor, I did.

JUDGE: Please state the SPECIFIC charges along with dates and times.

CAP: Specific charges? Dates and times?

JUDGE: Yes, the specifics please. What exactly did he do, along with where he did it, when he did it, and to whom...

CAP: Oh, okay. Well.. He absorbed some of the Phoenix Force... on the moon...

JUDGE: Yes well....two things. ONE, the moon is not within the jurisdiction of the World Court... and TWO, there is no law against absorbing the Phoenix Force. None, whatsoever... and besides, wasn't that the fault of your friend Tony Stark who not long ago imprisoned heroes in the negative zone so that they would be out of the Jurisdiction of the courts? Mr. Stark should have explained that to you. This courts Jurisdiction does not extend off the planet...

CAP: Are...Are you sure?

JUDGE: Yes, quite sure. You have to know these things when you're a Judge in a world court. Now, please continue. What crimes did Mr. Summers commit ON THIS PLANET?

CAP: He attacked the mystical city of KUN LUN and tried to abduct Hope Summers against her will!

JUDGE: I see... And this " mystical city " is it ON THIS PLANET?

CAP: Well... I mean... Okay, not EXACTLY... It's sort of in.....a magical dimension.

JUDGE: Well then, that wouldn't be on THIS planet, now would it?

CAP: Well, no... I guess not, but HE DID TRY TO ABDUCT HOPE SUMMERS AGAINST HER WILL!!!

JUDGE: Isn't that EXACTLY what YOU tried to do at the beginning of this fiasco? Didn't you, illegally attack the country of Utopia (outside of your jurisdiction) and try to take Hope Summers against her will? And isn't Utopia actually on this planet?

CAP: so?

JUDGE: Captain, you are a respected hero, certainly there are crimes My. Summers committed here on this planet. Surely, you aren't stupid enough to arrest him without having charges?!

CAP: Well, there's the attack on WAKANDA!!!

JUDGE: Mr. Summers attacked Wakanda?

CAP: Well.. not EXACTLY... King Namor attacked Wakanda.

JUDGE: King Namor, of Atlantis, attacked Wakanda..... and you charge Mr. Summers???

CAP: It's complicated, Your Honor...

JUDGE: Captain, PLEASE, tell me what Mr. Summers did on this planet... Not someone else, and not anywhere else but this planet! What crime did he commit...

CAP: Well... um.... he.... HE DEFENDED HIMSELF ON UTOPIA WHEN WE ATTACKED... And he KILLED Professor Xavier!!!

JUDGE: (Just stares blankly for a moment).. So... YOU attacked Utopia.... and then Mr. Summers fought back.... He killed Professor Xavier, one of the invaders of Utopia, and was killed by Mr. Summers who was defending his home.... By the By, isn't this like the third time Professor X has been killed?

CAP: Third of fourth, but who can keep up...

JUDGE: CASE DISMISSED!!!!!

Quoted For Truth.

@Timandm: That was pretty funny and factual. Good for you.

Spoilers ** He was a dictatorish general who did things a different way then the avengers . He really didnt do anything that bad except killing his teacher. They didn't sell him being a villain at all. It was bad event for the most part

@Cavemold said:

Spoilers ** He was a dictatorish general who did things a different way then the avengers . He really didnt do anything that bad except killing his teacher. They didn't sell him being a villain at all. It was bad event for the most part

and to add to this... He killed his teacher ONLY AFTER his teacher, along with the avengers and some X-Men, first attacked him.... He was defending himself.