@Haxter_Mcbaxter said:
@Freefa11: I know this really isn't the place, but what does Pre-retcon actually mean?, is that before the Comic character got nerfed story wise or something?
Pretty much. Originally, the Beyonder was basically presented as something like The One Above All from someplace "beyond" the normal Marvel multiverse. He was effectively omnipotent, and described as being at least millions of times more powerful than everything in the multiverse combined.
At some point though, Marvel editorial decided to change this, and they reduced him to being merely a sentient Cosmic Cube being (the Cosmic Cube was a reality warping device that had appeared a few times in earlier marvel stories, in case you didn't know). Cosmic Cubes are powerful, but not remotely as powerful as the Beyonder had previously been shown to be, so he was nerfed hard with that retcon.
Later on, they retconned him again into just being a Mutant Inhuman (or Eternal, or External; I'm not sure which, but all of them are stupid). I think they changed him back into being a CC being after that, but I'm not sure, and it is all just absurdly convoluted for a single character, to me.
Molecule Man underwent a similar ridiculous retcon.
also i thought The Living tribunal was always either second or third in power?, because isn't he suppose to be like the law enforcer/Omniversal-balancer?
Yes, and this is why I said he was 2nd in authority. However, in Secret Wars II, where the Beyonder and Molecule Man are really shown at their peak, it is made very clear that even the Living Tribunal cannot stand against the Beyonder, and he (along with the other abstracts) petitions the Molecule Man for help against the Beyonder, since it is agreed by all that next to the Beyonder, MM is unquestionably the most powerful being that exists, and the only one with even a slim hope of some sort of victory (basically meaning his odds are 1 in a million, instead of a flat zero like for everyone else).
there for TOAA should grant him power that rivals that of PR Molecule man and Thanos w/HoTU?
While the Tribunal works for TOAA, as far as I can tell, he has his own independent power level and does not receive amps or anything from his boss. Of course, most of the time he doesn't need one.
However, it is worth noting that it has been argued the Pre-Retcon Beyonder could have potentially stood against TOAA himself to some degree. There's really no way of knowing for sure, but again, it was made very clear the Tribunal could not affect him. PR Beyonder really was insanely powerful; probably one of the most powerful beings to ever appear in comics without the writers basically just saying, "yeah, this guy is GOD."
d also isn't HoTU the abbreviation for "Heart of The Universe"?, NOT Heart of The Multiverse, so wouldn't that mean he's one with just ONE universe? not alternate?
It's just a name. It is also called the Heart of the Infinite in the same story. In either case, the idea with that is it is actually the power of TOAA himself, or some significant portion of it, left behind as bait for Thanos in some crazy convoluted scheme to get him to destroy and then reboot the Marvel "actuality" (a term Starlin likes to throw out sometimes, which I think is basically his term for the omniverse, but I'm not really sure). But yeah, Thanos actually defeated the Living Tribunal in a fight there, so it puts him above LT for sure.
, anyways what i've ALWAYS thought it to be Power wise- 1. TOAA, 2. PR Beyonder, 3. The living tribunal, 4. PR Molecule man, and rank similar except Tribunal before PR Beyonder. I know for a fact Living tribunal is afraid of Beyonder, and has been mentioned by fellow Viners.
Like I said, in terms of power, PR MM was above LT as well, as shown when LT and the other abstracts were begging him to save them and the multiverse from the Beyonder. Check out Secret Wars I and II if you get the chance, as those are the stories that really deal with these guys (although, a bit of a warning, Secret Wars II isn't really a great story, and the art is really subpar for such an epic event; there are also like a million tie-ins and crossovers, and several of them seem pretty important).
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