So what SHOULD they be called?

In my last blog, I talked about how the name "The Avengers" is really a bad name for a group of super heroes. The Avengers are supposed to be the good guys, and, supposedly, they don't believe in things like killing, or revenge. Yet, the word "Avenger" means one who seeks or takes vengeance...

Avenger - One who takes vengeance or seeks revenge.

However, someone pointed something out to me... While I gave them a hard time for their name, I didn't offer any alternatives... So, I've been thinking about it. What name WOULD I give The Avengers if I were to rename them. And after much thought on the matter.... I GOT NUTHIN'.

So, let's open it up to the panel.

Good people of comic vine, if you were to rename the Avengers, what name would YOU give them? While we're at it, can we come up with a better name for The Defenders and The runaways?

The Fascists.

@TheCrowbar said:

The Fascists.

Well...That name wouldn't be... inaccurate...

@Timandm: That was only accurate for the completely out of character behavior for everyone in AVX because the writers had obviously been huffing paint or doing some other brain damaging activity when they were doing the impossible (A marvel event worse than Siege)

The Allies.

Keeps the A symbol, ties into Cap's background, truly IS an Alliance between the United States Military (Cap), the Asgardians (Thor), mankind (Iron Man), mutants (Wolverine), the Kree (Ms. Marvel), the Fantastic Four and their range of allies through Ben, most of the resident street level heroes of New York such as Spidey and Daredevil are also Avengers. Even allies with the more... 'antisocial' Hulks through the original Green.

@The Stegman: I thought it was impossible too, then those writers at Marvel went deep and dug up an even fouler pile of b******t to force on us.

@The Stegman: Its pretty much been a long slide down bulls**t mountain since Civil War ended

@Timandm: I unfortunately wasn't trying to be funny or a comic geek, most of the core Avengers have one time or another imposed their will on a populace that didn't elect them and went on to create wanton destruction.

@TheCrowbar: That's pretty much every super hero though, Batman's work to enforce his will has in the past caused huge problems, The X-Men have people who've actually been purposefully destructive like Magneto, Sabertooth, Mystique and Namor on their team, The Justice League, Green Lantern Corps, and pretty much every super group in existence have all done questionable things that they honestly had no right to be even considering so you really can't just call the Avengers out on this unless you're going to call out the whole lot of them that have done the same.

@joshmightbe said:

@TheCrowbar: That's pretty much every super hero though, Batman's work to enforce his will has in the past caused huge problems, The X-Men have people who've actually been purposefully destructive like Magneto, Sabertooth, Mystique and Namor on their team, The Justice League, Green Lantern Corps, and pretty much every super group in existence have all done questionable things that they honestly had no right to be even considering so you really can't just call the Avengers out on this unless you're going to call out the whole lot of them that have done the same.

The justice league, as far as I recall, never of their own free will invaded nations and toppled governments.

The Green Lantern Corp never imprisoned a large portion of a populace because they refused to be identified.

X-men could be your only exception but that's the same writing staff, the same house at Marvel thinking these things up.

@TheCrowbar: The Guardians of OA have been responsible for far more horrible things than the Avengers and no one elected them, they just up and decided that they were better than everyone else and would enforce their own morals on the entire universe via the GL corps. As for the Justice League they may have never done the same things as the Avengers but they've done some things just as bad like Brain washing for instance. Hell they even brain washed Batman so he wouldn't get in the way of them doing it to others.

@joshmightbe said:

@TheCrowbar: The Guardians of OA have been responsible for far more horrible things than the Avengers and no one elected them, they just up and decided that they were better than everyone else and would enforce their own morals on the entire universe via the GL corps. As for the Justice League they may have never done the same things as the Avengers but they've done some things just as bad like Brain washing for instance. Hell they even brain washed Batman so he wouldn't get in the way of them doing it to others.

Guardians aren't heroes or the Green Lantern Corp, they're not treated as heroes even by the corp.

The JLA fell apart from that, the Avengers kept functioning as a group through Cap's attack on Utopia and during Ironman's internment camps.

@The Stegman said:

Honestly, I always thought the name "The Defenders" fitted the Avengers better since they are usually Earth's first line of defense against...everything.

True...

@JediXMan said:

The Defenders is a much more appropriate name... though both names are still terrible.

Yeah... The name, "The Protectors" came to mind, but that just sounds like a box of condoms...

@TheCrowbar said:

@Timandm: I unfortunately wasn't trying to be funny or a comic geek, most of the core Avengers have one time or another imposed their will on a populace that didn't elect them and went on to create wanton destruction.

I know you weren't trying to be funny. I completely agree with you... In that amazing story line, A v X, (please note the sarcasm) Cap and the Avengers invaded a foreign country without a declaration of war to extradite one of the citizens of that country. Facism has never had a better poster child than the current Captain America. Well, there was Tony Stark who gave the order to arrest Spider-Man because Spider-Man moved out of Stark Towers...LITERALLY... Spidey's "law breaking offense" was that he moved himself and his family out of Stark Towers and Stark says, "arrest him." Stark also decided it was legal and appropriate to de-power She-Hulk. There was no discussion, no vote, no legal precedence. He just used SHIELD resources and de-powered her...

Also, Captain America, America's Top Cop, 'The New Norman Osbourne', decides who gets arrested and imprisoned and who does not. He doesn't base his decision on the law, he just decides, using his own personal moral system, who is a criminal and who is not; who is guilty and who is not; who gets punished and who does not... Consider the following:

Ben Grimm -

Possessed, by the power of an Asgardian god of fear, does hundreds of millions of dollars in property damage and kills thousands of human beings.... No arrest... No detainment... No conviction... Nada.

Scott Summers -

Possessed by a force more powerful than all of Asgard (and thsi possession was the fault of Tony Stark), kills ONE person only AFTER being attacked by the Avengers a number of times... Although, he does appear to have caused an untold amount of property damage across the world. Scott gets locked into a prison with the understanding that he will NEVER see the inside of a courtroom and it is ACCEPTED that the other prisoners are going to kill him... Captain America KNOWS the other prisoners are going to kill Scott... And Cap just leaves Scott there???

At least Emma was scheduled to be killed by anyone any time soon.

Soooooo, when we have people who take it upon themselves to decide what is right for a country or world.. and they FORCE their will on those others... Where power comes through force and not through the consent of the masses... Well... that's facism.

@joshmightbe said:

@TheCrowbar: The Guardians of OA have been responsible for far more horrible things than the Avengers and no one elected them, they just up and decided that they were better than everyone else and would enforce their own morals on the entire universe via the GL corps. As for the Justice League they may have never done the same things as the Avengers but they've done some things just as bad like Brain washing for instance. Hell they even brain washed Batman so he wouldn't get in the way of them doing it to others.

So, you're saying, The Guardians of Oa are a good example of Facism. I couldn't agree more. As for the Justice Legue, as Crowbar pointed out, they broke up because of that....

@JonSmith said:

The Allies.

Keeps the A symbol, ties into Cap's background, truly IS an Alliance between the United States Military (Cap), the Asgardians (Thor), mankind (Iron Man), mutants (Wolverine), the Kree (Ms. Marvel), the Fantastic Four and their range of allies through Ben, most of the resident street level heroes of New York such as Spidey and Daredevil are also Avengers. Even allies with the more... 'antisocial' Hulks through the original Green.

I LIKE IT! Seriously, I like that name! Okay, so you're in the lead at the moment.

@SC said:

I always was of the belief the avenging was metaphorical rather than literal. Either all I would call them the The Brunettes. Or The Oregami Express.

Okay, but a metaphor conveys a meaning or a idea... What meaning or idea is conveyed by the word 'AVENGER." Let me put it this way. REVENGER (although not exactly a real word) has the exact same meaning as AVENGER. If they called themselves The REVENGERS what would be the metaphorical meaning?

Now, While "The Brunettes" has a certain aire of kewlness about it... I LIKe The Oregami Express!!!

The Douchebags.

@TheCrowbar: AVX was completely out of character for Cap who has always been the first guy to step up and point out when the Avengers were going to far, I'd say his entire history prior counts more than his one instance of horrible writing

@joshmightbe: Characters grow and change over time. This is a change in Cap, one I feel that seemed consist with who he was since taking over Shield.

@TheCrowbar: No it absolutely is not consistent with who he is, you can't equate the past 2 or 3 years which works out to maybe a few months in comic time with his entire history of being the guy who has always stood up for the little guy and believes in justice and freedom above all else. AVX was the one of the worst stories Marvel has ever done for exactly this reason, it made its main characters go so far away from who they actually are that they were virtually unrecognizable.

@The Poet said:

I'm going to be THAT user and say: Justice League.

:D

@fodigg said:

You're right, Avengers is too aggressive. They should go back to Invaders.

Well, that would be more accurate...

@EdBlank said:

I agree the name is a little aggressive for their classic MO but lately they have been doing some pretty aggressive stuff. Anti-heroic even. The name "Avengers" is too awsome to change, therefore I say we change the Avengers. Make Cap a little more trigger happy with his sidearm. Let Hulk actually smash a muff hugger once in a while.

Um... What exactly is a "Muff hugger"?

@joshmightbe said:

@TheCrowbar: AVX was completely out of character for Cap who has always been the first guy to step up and point out when the Avengers were going to far, I'd say his entire history prior counts more than his one instance of horrible writing

AvX was out of character for who Cap WAS... But it seems obvious that Marvel is intent on changing him. The way he now randomly kicks people out of the Avengers and adds others without consulting the rest of team...The way he arbitrarily chooses who should be arrested and who should not. The way he tried to have Cyclops killed in Prison. I'm not saying he gave the order, but he put Scott in the prison with no intention whatsoever of letting him have a day in court. He also KNEW others were trying to kill Scott but did nothing about it. Honestly, Scott dying in prison would have made things easier on Cap and I think that's why he left Scott there; to die...

So, is that shift from who he was? Absolutely. COMPLETELY. But that's the way Marvel is taking it. You cannot say 'it didn't happen! that was just bad writing' because, whether or not we like it, THAT is the way Cap is now... Look how Captain America is in the Ultimate universe... He put the few remaining mutants on earth, ON A RESERVATION SITTING ON A TOXIC AND RADIOACTIVE DESSERT..... Captain America did that. He KNEW what he was doing and has left it.... Is that what the old Captain America would have done? No! SMURF NO! But that is how he is now.

This Captain America doesn't seem to believe in Democracy at all. In a Democracy, power comes from those who are governed; but this Cap just seems to think he has all the power and he doesn't have to adhere to the laws as spelled out in the Constitution.

I can't help but suspect that Marvel will reveal, eventually, that this Captain America is really a skrull...

@The Poet said:

I'm going to be THAT user and say: Justice League.

That would actually work.... If it weren't already taken...

@Timandm: If that's just how Cap is gonna be now then Quite frankly I'm done with Marvel

@EdBlank: OOOH!!! LOL!!! i'm still laughing. Okay... Got it. You have to understand; where I from the word 'muff' has a certain meaning...

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: If that's just how Cap is gonna be now then Quite frankly I'm done with Marvel

I know the feeling. There's still a chance that he's a Skrull.. or under mind control. It WOULD explain a great many things. You know how Peter Parker's mind has currently be switched with on of his greatest villains? Well, could be something like that... Maybe the Red Skull is trying to discredit Captain America... And it doesn't matter that the Red Skull is dead because this is the Marvel Universe; death doesn't really mean anything.

I'm not too well versed in the lore of comics, and I have a feeling an established comic universe has nabbed this title already, but I think The Justiciars might fit, or the Justicars if we're going on a fantasy route.

@xybernauts: All good points. And you're right, the explanation in the movie was very, VERY lame... Especially if you spend any time thinking about it. "We may not be able to protect it, but we will avenge it." He's basically saying, you might destroy most of us, but the rest will certainly retaliate and make you pay...

As for the word revenge "implying", well, I think that get's at the heart of the problem. So many words have 'implied' meaning. And those words with the 'implied' meanings are used so often, that eventually people think that is what they really do mean. For example, the word "irregardless" isn't, or rather, WASN'T a word... but it has been used so often that it has become accepted...

Regard

Regardless - without regard

Ir-regard-less - NOT without regard... meaning... Regard.

but today, many people take irregardless to mean the same thing as regardless... it's a question of use, I guess. i supposed that's one of the ways any language evolves...

So, I guess when it comes down to it, Avenge and Revenge both mean retaliation of some sort for a wrong doing, HOWEVER, I believe Avenge is supposed to mean a 'righteous' or 'just' retaliation to punish for a wrong doing; whereas, Revenge, I guess, is more personal and it's mostly concerned with punishing or getting even, whether or not it is considered lawful.... For example, what the Punisher does might be considered revenge.

Still... I hate the name Avengers, although I agree, it's not going to change. It's just too late for that.

@ArticulateT said:

I'm not too well versed in the lore of comics, and I have a feeling an established comic universe has nabbed this title already, but I think The Justiciars might fit, or the Justicars if we're going on a fantasy route.

Hmmm...Definitely on the right track... Although, it has that "judge" sort of implication. Know what I mean? Makes me think of "Judge Dred" where one is both Judge and Jury. On the other hand, that's what the Avengers have become; both Judge and Jury. Perhaps it IS an appropriate name...

In Denmark according to keep the A in the logo The Avengers was translated into Alliancen (yeah you are correct it means "The Alliance"). The Avengers would be "hævnerne". Always taught it was more fitting and accurate,

Thor and his b*** The Defenders sounds good to me actually...

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

Thor and his b*** The Defenders sounds good to me actually...

True, but

Thor and his b***es

sounds better :-)

@tupiaz said:

In Denmark according to keep the A in the logo The Avengers was translated into Alliancen (yeah you are correct it means "The Alliance"). The Avengers would be "hævnerne". Always taught it was more fitting and accurate,

I kind of like the sound of " Alliancen "

@JimTheSurfer said:

The Douchebags.

That gets my vote

@thespideyguy: America is actually a republic.

Hence the term, "And the Republic for which it stands." Yes, the United States of America is, indeed, a Republic. I specifically stated, "The United States" because I have little doubt that someone out there will feel compelled to point out that "America" is really a continent, and completely ignore the fact that we Americans, citizens of the United States of America, have a habit of referring to ourselves as Americans...

The United States of a America was founded as a Republic, not a democracy. In both a Republic and Democracy, the power comes from the governed\citizens. However, in a "TRUE" Democracy, all policies are decided by vote; one person - one vote... We obviously don't have that. We have a system where 'we the people' supposedly vote for and elect politicians to represent our ideas and opinions...

Nonetheless, Republics and Democracies are very similar in ideals and philosophies... The words are used interchangeably as if they are synonymous. I believe it is understood and accepted that they are, in practical application, different, but in practice very similar.

It makes me think of the word "Evolution." Most people think Evolution means 'the formation of new species from previous species" and, as one that teaches biology, this drives up the freaking wall. Evolution, in and of itself, means 'a shift in allelic frequency within a given population." it says NOTHING about a new species, but rather, refers to the changing frequencies of phenotypes (observable traits) within a population... BUT 'we the people' tend to use the word EVOLUTION when speaking about DARWIN'S THEORY OF EVOLUTION, in which Darwin took the idea of Evolution and hypothesized that a new species could form if evolution occurred enough over a long period of time.

SOoooo, getting back to this... Yes, I'm well aware that the United States of America is a Republic.

@SC said:

@Timandm said:

Okay, but a metaphor conveys a meaning or a idea... What meaning or idea is conveyed by the word 'AVENGER." Let me put it this way. REVENGER (although not exactly a real word) has the exact same meaning as AVENGER. If they called themselves The REVENGERS what would be the metaphorical meaning?

Now, While "The Brunettes" has a certain aire of kewlness about it... I LIKe The Oregami Express!!!

Ah but you must follow through. Instead of assuming the literal killing of when avenging of things, assume that they are avenging something less physical. Avengers of injustice, etc but but regardless they should be the Los Conquistadores.

But you're assuming I am assuming they are killing. I never said " killing. " To get revenge doesn't mean killing. In fact, the avengers, although they have had to kill, are against it unless absolutely necessary...

However, I do like the idea of 'Avenging an injustice.' Now Los Conquistadores has a very nice sound! I LIKE IT!

@SC said:

@Timandm said:

But you're assuming I am assuming they are killing. I never said " killing. " To get revenge doesn't mean killing. In fact, the avengers, although they have had to kill, are against it unless absolutely necessary...

However, I do like the idea of 'Avenging an injustice.' Now Los Conquistadores has a very nice sound! I LIKE IT!

I am assuming based on

@Timandm said:

The Avengers are supposed to be the good guys, and, supposedly, they don't believe in things like killing, or revenge.

Where as I agree, they don't believe in things like having Captain America decapitate Norman Osborn with his shield while Spider-Man webs up Rhinos eyes and Thor rips off his horn and then shoves it into his heart but... maybe having Captain America decapitate racial inequality with his shield while Spider-Man webs up Communisms eyes and Thor rips off its sickle and then shoves it into his heart eh eh eh?

I have moved on from the Los Conquistadores, now I firmly believe they should be called The Hart Foundation. Except they would all be required to wear sunglasses. Even Hulk.

The Hart Foundation? That brings up images of overweight men in tights or overly wealthy people dressed in 70s attire investigating crime...

I would, however, like to see the Hulk in a pair of Elton Johan glasses.

I get what you're saying regarding the symbolism or metaphors...But i honestly don't think that's what they had in mind when they named their team. I also don't think that's what most people think about when they consider the team name of the Avengers...

After much thought on the subject, I do believe that the name "The Guardians" would be most appropriate, but that's taken by a group of floating blue trolls into power jewelry...

@JonSmith said:

The Allies.

Keeps the A symbol, ties into Cap's background, truly IS an Alliance between the United States Military (Cap), the Asgardians (Thor), mankind (Iron Man), mutants (Wolverine), the Kree (Ms. Marvel), the Fantastic Four and their range of allies through Ben, most of the resident street level heroes of New York such as Spidey and Daredevil are also Avengers. Even allies with the more... 'antisocial' Hulks through the original Green.

i agree