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#101 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio
#102 Posted by Rossnrachel4ever (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Change for the sake of political correctness does no one any favors, and you're not going to convince me that obesity is the same as being blind or paraplegic.

#103 Edited by Dernman (15690 posts) - - Show Bio

@rossnrachel4ever said:

@dernman: Change for the sake of political correctness does no one any favors, and you're not going to convince me that obesity is the same as being blind or paraplegic.

It's not about change for political correctness, it's about not continuing a sick, bigoted, ignorant and downright wrong behavior to a group of people. A behavior that not only does NOT help anything but just makes everything WORSE. I'm sure you'll keep on making your excuses to justify disgusting behavior..Want to fix a problem fix that problem? Try fixing that type of behavior that you could apply to many different groups which is a bigger problem one you're go on about.

Also I never said obesity was the same as being blind or paraplegic in life. I was addressing the "shoehorning" and being "forced" point you failed make as a justification for exclusion.

Do you even have any reading comprehension skills or do you purposely just misinterpret what you read because you have no actual points to stand on?

#104 Posted by Rossnrachel4ever (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: That's very mature, attacking my literacy. In an earlier post you wrote that since there are disabled superheroes there should be no problem with over weight superheroes. I pointed out that being disabled is not the same as being over weight. I used blindness and paraplegia as examples of handicaps because Daredevil and Barbara Gordon are the disabled heroes I am most familiar with. It's clear that this is a personal issue for you as evidenced by your personal attack against me in your last post. You have given no good reasons why there should be over weight superheroes and instead have championed the cause of the obese like we're talking about putting them in camps or tattooing numbers on there arms. Obesity is a major health issue in the U.S that I believe to be a choice and I don't believe over weight people need greater representation in pop culture. That doesn't make me a bad person. It means that 3/4 of Americans are dangerously overweight and I don't believe that should be encouraged.

#105 Edited by Dernman (15690 posts) - - Show Bio

@rossnrachel4ever: That's very mature, attacking my literacy.

I didn't attack your literacy I pointed out you failure to comprehend something simple I was saying. Hey hey but since it's a problem in communication (edit and literacy) that needs to be fixed it's justified right?

In an earlier post you wrote that since there are disabled superheroes there should be no problem with over weight superheroes.

Yes I was referring to the fact of their disadvantages in the superhero lifestyle.Then you brought it up to larger entertainment.

I pointed out that being disabled is not the same as being over weight.

Which has no bearing as a reason for exclusion in the the sense of your point of "shoehorning" and being "forced". The reason for their disadvantages are irrelevant. Regardless though it would be neither shoehorning or forced for either type of character.

I used blindness and paraplegia as examples of handicaps because Daredevil and Barbara Gordon are the disabled heroes I am most familiar with.

Characters that change nothing to the point. Which brings out too when I used the Xavier example. You honestly telling me and trying to keep any shred of credibility that it would have been shoehorning or forced if he was fat? That somehow his disadvantages some how are less relevant because he didn't "choose" it

It's clear that this is a personal issue for you as evidenced by your personal attack against me in your last post.

That's sad when exposing horrible and damaging attitude/behavior/practices that are directed at a certain group of people gets reduced to a personal attack. Ironic? Also that it has to be personal and not just decency.

You have given no good reasons why there should be over weight superheroes and instead have championed the cause of the obese like we're talking about putting them in camps or tattooing numbers on there arms.

Not only is that not true but it would be irrelevant to do so because you've haven't not ONE good reason to exclude them in the FIRST PLACE. Riight because you are not putting them in camps and tattooing them somehow anything less then that is justifiable. Oh my you should be up for sainthood.

Obesity is a major health issue in the U.S that I believe to be a choice and I don't believe over weight people need greater representation in pop culture.

Obesity is a major problem that was never in question. Don't know why you keep saying that but so is the behavior and action towards certain groups of people that ostracise them. They don't need special behavior they just should be treated like anyone else. YOU DO NOT fix the problem your way. You just perpetrate another one. Shaming them and keeping them in the shadows does no good but harm.

That doesn't make me a bad person.

heh yeah people with similar types of attitudes towards certain different groups often think that. They all have their justifications.

It means that 3/4 of Americans are dangerously overweight and I don't believe that should be encouraged.

What it means is that you've shown a certain attitude that justifies certain likened behaviors that has always been a major problem. That not only shouldn't be encouraged but should be actively stood up against.

#106 Posted by Rossnrachel4ever (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: I don't hate overweight people, but I also don't think being overweight should be encouraged. I don't think overweight people should be happy with being overweight or should have a woe is me attitude about it. I'm sorry if that makes you upset, but it doesn't make me a bigot. I am done talking about this. Keep fighting for the right to be sick and tired.

#107 Edited by Dernman (15690 posts) - - Show Bio

@rossnrachel4ever: I don't hate overweight people,

So you say but it doesn't make damaging attitudes and behavior any less wrong.

but I also don't think being overweight should be encouraged.

Of for the love of good sense. In no way is treating heavy people like people encouraging. If fact it's quite the opposite when you show the two different lifestyles together. Take comics for example. An attack comes directed at two people. Who is more likely to dodge the attack? Who is more options if they lost their powers. Who has more options to be different styles like a street leveler. Not even getting into the advantages is real life. You're answer is to go out of your way to not include these people. You think it's something good let alone even OK? Come on man.

I don't think overweight people should be happy with being overweight or should have a woe is me attitude about it.

Who says they are. Who do you think is more unhappy, suffers more? You or them?

For the record though the fact you think they have to be anything in how their emotional state or let alone think you have a right to take action or have a say in how they should feel at all goes to show you more about the problem of you type of attitude.

I'm sorry if that makes you upset, but it doesn't make me a bigot. I am done talking about this. Keep fighting for the right to be sick and tired.

You should be and yeah it does. Good because people shouldn't have to put up with sick and ignorant attitudes. The world needs less of that and their horrible justifications.

EDIT: I find it terrible that you equate standing up for people to be treated as human being and not something subhuman as to fighting for the right to be fat. That goes to show the irrationality of such a behavior.

#108 Edited by Rossnrachel4ever (82 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: What are you standing up for? The obese are not some minority group whose rights are being stepped on. Yes, they are people. People with an unhealthy condition that should be discouraged. I'm not saying to take away their right to vote or advocating their out right miss treatment. I repeat: I DONT HATE THE OBESE! I hate the obesity problem in the U.S.! It's a serious problem! Obese people don't need better representation in comic books. They need help, encouragement, and the reassurance that the condition is not permanent. Saying that is not mean, it's the truth. Wanting better for people is not inhuman. Yes, I know I said I was done but I feel like your making me into Voldemort because I want people to be healthier. How else can I address the obesity epedemic without referring to obese people as a whole? I think they need help, not special allowances. If that makes me a bad guy, then I guess doctors are bad guys too? A medical doctor would say the same things. I know, heard it a lot from them several years ago when I had to start getting healthy or die.

#109 Edited by Dernman (15690 posts) - - Show Bio

@rossnrachel4ever: What are you standing up for?

I'm standing up for them to be treated like people and against ignorant wrongful behavior.

The obese are not some minority group whose rights are being stepped on.

What they are is human beings and should be treated as such. Not treated as less than, where such behavior does in fact step on them. Being a minority or majority group is irrelevant. You should alway treat people like human beings. It's a simple concept that should be easy to grasp.

Yes, they are people.

Then start treating them as such

People with an unhealthy condition that should be discouraged.

People who shouldn't be shamed, ostracized and treated as subhuman. Go after the problem don't go after the people. Promote healthy eating habits and activity. Maybe make it easier to get and more affordable for these people eat healthier. For many people it's other problems then willingness. Eating healthy especially with a family is harder to budget for many. Education is the key. Get them when they are young but not just then. In no way is treating people horrible an ok thing to do especially because they don't fit your ideal or when it mostly harms themselves. Behavior like that is a terrible problem in the world and need to be discouraged and stood up against.

I'm not saying to take away their right to vote or advocating their out right miss treatment. I repeat: I DONT HATE THE OBESE!

You're just ostracizing them, shame them, make them miserable or worse then they already do. There is a difference with being happy and being happy with ones condition. Saying they shouldn't be in entertainment, media, should be hidden away and shunted off to the side like they are not part of humanity because they are a icky and set a bad example. Like it's an infection disease that people will catch if seen. Ya people are actually going to say hey that persons "fat" maybe I should too. If you don't hate them then I shudder what you'd do if you did.

I hate the obesity problem in the U.S.! It's a serious problem!

Good for you. Then promote healthy living but don't discriminate against heavy people because regardless what you say you're doing that is what you're doing.

Obese people don't need better representation in comic books.

Obese people don't need to be excluded. They just need to be treated like people. They are not being included because they are obese. They would be included because there are obese people. There is no good or right reason not too. You're argument goes out of it's way to exclude them to treat them differently. My argument says there isn't a need to treat them differently.

They need help, encouragement, and the reassurance that the condition is not permanent.

My word so much ignorance in the statement? Not excluding them and treating them like human beings does not encourage their condition. Seriously what is wrong with you? It's not giving a person reassurance to treat someone decent. It's called being a decent human being. It also boggled my mind how you can oversimplify the obesity problem, truly ignorant of the problem, people and their lives.

Saying that is not mean, it's the truth.

Not only is your attitude and behavior mean, it's wrong, harmful, doesn't help anyone but indicates the truth about the type of people that have them.

Wanting better for people is not inhuman.

Treating people as inhuman is inhuman. You are not just simply wanting something something. This is promoting a negative and harmful behavior that does no good. There are many ways and approaches to work to help the problem that doesn't subhuminize the people.

Yes, I know I said I was done but I feel like your making me into Voldemort because I want people to be healthier.

I don't have to do anything. You're doing it all yourself. Find it funny though because you don't want to be seen as that but you're going out of your way to make heavy people seem like that. Voldemort the wizard you dare not speak his name. Overweight person dare not let them be seen.

How else can I address the obesity epedemic without referring to obese people as a whole?

Well for one you don't treat people like subhuman garbage. Promote a healthy living style by education, showing the advantages. They already know the disadvantages better than anyone because they live it. Promote healthier foods by making them more available. You realize that a major part of the problem is availability and affordability. There are some cheap meals but most people are not even aware of them. Many heavy people don't even know where to start looking even if they wanted to make a change. Encourage the people that do but without that crappy behavior that will make them feel worse and want to give up and eat their problems away. There are many more ways to do so I'm not going to write a research paper on all of them. It's just not acceptable with what you've shown. There is no justification for it.

I think they need help

Of course they could use help.

not special allowances.

The only one here that is asking for special treatment is you. You're the one who is specially saying this or that. Everyone one else says let them do or not do on their own. There is no reason go out of the way to exclude type of person. Showing a diverse reflection of society is not giving special allowances. Excluding them is giving special disallowances.

If that makes me a bad guy, then I guess doctors are bad guys too?

It does make you one. Want to talk about false comparison you just made a huge one there. First off you're not a doctor. Second they are people with different behaviors and morals.Third doctors do not treat heavy people subhuman and when it comes to being a doctor they are concerned about their health not if they are allowed to be seen in the media. Actually that might not be true because doctors know being ostrisized, constant exposure to ingredient and harmful behavior isn't good for neither their mental or physical health. Do not compare your yourself to a good doctor. You fall far short.

A medical doctor would say the same things. I know, heard it a lot from them several years ago when I had to start getting healthy or die.

Really they treated you as subhuman, told you you should be seen, you couldn't have an acting career, or bee seen in certain places because in might infect someone else with your problem? Sounds like you had a severe case of unhealthiness where the doctor told you the truth because that is what their JOB is. That is why you went to them. That IS NOT what you're doing.

Just just stop you're making it worse and digging a bigger hole for yourself.

#110 Edited by CaptainRogers (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

@captainrogers: Most superheroes are flawed, that's what makes them interesting. So what's wrong with them being "fat"? And not every hero needs to be in physically prime shape as many have powers, suits of armor, what have you, that donate abilities to them that don't necessarily require them to be in great shape to use. Batman, sure. Invincible, not necessarily. Invincible is a good example because he has powers regardless and can save people regardless. But he has to train if he wants to be as good as Viltrumites. So there's plenty of room for overweight or obese superheroes in plenty of universes.

Also it's kind of silly to say there shouldn't be obese superheroes. Comics are fictional. It's no more ludicrous to assume an alien wears a cape and flys around saving people, than a fat person doing the same. If you can suspend your disbelief to the point that superheroes even exist, why wouldn't some of them maybe have a weight problem? Some superheroes have mind powers, telekinesis or telepathy. They certainly wouldn't need to be in tip top shape now would they?

If you like superheroes at all, you have to admit they all have certain qualities that are unbecoming. None of them are perfect. So it's really a double standard to say we can have alcoholics, murderers and others don the title of superhero in comics yet not fat people.

People really confuse me with their logic sometimes.

Damn man, I gotta admit you make some really good points. I couldn't agree more that "flaws" certainly add to the interest of the character, would be boring if they were perfect. Also, another great point about how comics are after all fiction not always meant to be serious or realistic. You have for sure made me reconsider how I feel and and think about this topic.

#111 Posted by Dabee (2399 posts) - - Show Bio

#112 Posted by Squares (8392 posts) - - Show Bio

There are. Big Bertha, Bouncing Boy, Bobby Badoing...why do their names all start with B?

#113 Edited by MisterAnderson (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@ellie_knightfall:

The Blob was a member of Freedom Force. Guess some people found it easier to buy into the rhetoric that the Brotherhood had reformed.

What was the name of the overweight Valiant heroine?

#114 Posted by Fan_Not_Fanboy (84 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

No, being fat is unhealthy and it shouldnt be encouraged, I know there are diseases out there but everything has exceptions.

I really wouldnt mind some heavier built characters though, but plain fat / obese is a no.

This is exactly why we shouldn't have them promoting obesity wouldn't be good

#115 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2273 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember how annoyed I was when they replaced Amanda "The Wall" Waller with a generic female in New DC 52'.

So was Ma Hunkel!

Before:

After (New 52):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uaCNxeGTmKY/UZSD8Pl2wtI/AAAAAAAABI4/r42vUBRL9Cw/s1600/red_tornado_ma_hunkel_earth2_new52.jpg