Sexism in Comics is Not New--Here's What You Should Do about It

This is a long-shot, and may sound conspiracy-theorist crazy, but does anyone think DC might have made these comics fully knowing the uproar they would incite? I mean, this is the kind of thing that will get them headlines in major news outlets. And all its going to take is a quaint public apology and small retcon on these two rarely-fan-favorites to bring people back to their side.

After all, "any publicity is good publicity" or whatever.

Whatdaya think? Too far-fetched?

This is the main reason I don't read comics.

They did turn Wonder Woman from a fake symbol of feminism into a real one over the many years. With time we will get there.

Also in context a lot of the problems with these issues are not there. Most of the stuff I have read against them you can tell the person didn't even read the issue. Catwoman is just fine really, Starfire I will you give her.

As mentioned earlier i think its the fact that Starfire cant remember her partners/friends from the Titans that bugs people more than the way she acts/dresses. She's always been promiscuous and worn revealing clothing and yet people only complain now. I think Lobdell is writing her like this for a reason.. I get the feeling she is going to develop feelings and a deep relationship with a character in the new Outlaws book and we get to see her character develop. I mean take a look at Roy, he's changed more than Starfire has in my opinion, Tattoo's, long hair.. I for one enjoyed the book, yes I was surprised by the big changes but im going to give it a chance and see where it leads. Havnt read Catwoman yet so cant comment on the controversy there, worth picking up?

I know I dont post here much.. but hasn't Catwomen.. always been kinda whore-ish. I know that she isn't really doing anyone, but she is, in what I have seen, extremely seductive and with the way Catwoman and Batman interact with each other... probably could of seen it coming.

But I really think that people need to just chill out and do some deep breathing.

I understand the need to rant (and a lovey rant it was) but giving the books you think are sexist this much attention seems anti productive. The Red Hood book especially as this sort of thing is expected from Catwoman. There have been so many complaints about Outlaws and everyone has written an article about it. Tho horny mo fos are going to flock to that title when they read these articles, driving up sales and keeping the book around for longer. I have no interest in Red Hood and I've always hated Catwoman but I want to see what all the fuss is about now (still won't buy either though).

Comics are targeted at males and males love pretty girls. If the cast of Grey's Anatomy was all obese old guys then the show would probably be gone already.

Great vent and I also can't wait for both Batgirl and Wonder Woman #2!

I wasn't offended by the starfire stuff as much as I was by the dialogue between roy and jason. None of it was written in a way that people actually talk

@Mr_Skeleton: You know there are good comics out there right? Not just those 2 issues.

@gangly said:

@RickZeo said:

And aside from all of that, simply based on their very action and sci fi heavy nature, Comics are still very much speaking to a way bigger male than female audience. And therefor, they're of course they're written towards male sensibilities. Which i don't necessarily think is a bad thing. I mean, just look at certain female orientated fiction and how one dimensional and stereotypical male characters are often portrayed there. There really isn't much of difference. It just doesn't get criticized by the opposite sex for being sexist.

You say there really isn't much of a difference, but you're missing one crucial point. I completely agree that there is "female oriented fiction" that objectifies men and boys. That's just a fact. But it's vital to realize that those books are a percentage of the entire universe of literature itself. And there are tons of books that cater to tons of interests.

Now if you consider, say, the entire DC universe, you have to agree that a majority of ALL OF the titles are coming from the same POV. As you say, "they're written towards male sensibilities".

Imagine that there were NO OTHER BOOKS than the "female oriented" ones you talk about. Would you still want to read books? Or would you maybe start to think that books are sexist?

Well, first of all, i think it's a bit unfair to compare comic books and regular books. Not only are comic books a niche medium that's appealing to a niche audience, but they're also mostly published in form of monthly ongoing series and therefor mainly continue already existing concepts. While with novels, you've got countless new ideas published every year in various genres. So it's only natural that there's a much bigger diversity there. If anything, i think comics should be compared to a literary subgenre... like the female oriented fiction i was referring to. After all, we're not even really talking about comics in general here, but more about mainstream superhero books.

Besides, like i said, i don't even think the majority of female characters in these mainstream superhero are portrayed in a sexist fashion. There are some, without a doubt, but not all of them. It's just that there's to be made a big deal out of every slutty female in a comic book, which makes it seem like most female characters are portrayed like that.

And again, from my point of view, for completely different reasons, in comic books male characters are quite often also portrayed as sex objects. It's just that objectification of men is somewhat different from objectification of women. IMO, a male character that's basically reduced to being nothing more than the "strong guy" is no different than female characters whose only character trade is being "sexy".

Another thing i've got a hard time understanding is a lot of female readers' concept of a strong female character. It has to be physically and emotionally strong, highly intelligent, confident, independent and of course, sexy without being slutty. To me, that feels like these females think the perfect female should be or how would like to be.

Personally, i have no interesting in reading characters that are perfect in every way and i don't consider them strong characters. Male or female, i want to read about well rounded characters, who also have negative character trades, just like real people. What makes them interesting and compelling to me is how they deal with these flaws.

And looking at it, there are male heroes who are arrogant, aggressive, insecure, stubborn, have addictions and so on. So what's wrong with having some of your female characters dealing with their insecurity by basically modeling themselves after what they think males want them to be...barely covered and always ready to get it on. Cause, you know, that kind of women do exist in real life...

a bold article and well said, respect for saying what needs to be said even against some creators and comics that help the industry financially.

my problem is with characters like psylock. i love x-force, and i love her character a lot. but why does her outfit always have to show her butt so much? my gf gets upset about it. but its a not a sexual book and its certainly not focused on that at all, so i wont stop buying it. but its still annoying.

ive kind of ignored til now, but after reading this article, makes me think more about things like this.

Here's a thing I don't understand about this debate that is completely obvious and yet at the same time a completely double standard.................we have dozens of male characters running around in skin tight outfits and not a single person comments on it. Let's be honest here. When has anyone ever complained that Superman's insanely muscular, perfect physique is offensive to real men because there is no way we could emulate it. NEVER. Many male characters have been shown in the nude (Kyle Rayner running buck naked through his apartment to join Jade in the shower springs to mind because I re-read Our World at War series recently) but not a single thing is said about it. Dude's get blown up, sliced, diced, and in every which way dealt a death blow but the only complaint is the death of women and being stuffed in refrigerators? Where's the outcry for all the great minor male characters that have died throughout the years? Where's their tributes and blog posts?

No let's talk about the real point of women in comics......a lack of respect from both the writer and reader. Whenever a female character (regardless of her costume) is drawn intelligent, powerful, confident, able to keep up with the boys, and everything else that embodies "feminism" its a huge success. Wonder Woman, Power Girl (most recent series), Supergirl, Birds of Prey, Batgirl, Catwoman, Talia al Ghul, Zatanna, Batwoman, and so on. When the character is good how they look goes completely out the window because they are being written the way we expect them to be.......not as airheads with superpowers but as heroes who are defined by the same traits we would expect in their male counterparts. This iteration of Starfire is a perfect example of not respecting a female character and it was the most painful thing to read in the entire "new 52" so far. Why Scott Lobdell is still allowed to write comics I have no idea because that issue was pure trash. But I would never say that about the various teams that worked on the last Power Girl series because it was a resounding success in every aspect of that character and the wit used to play off her obviously way out of proportion features made it that much better because you could see how the writers didn't care to draw a sex symbol but to tell a good story.

So don't stop reading comics unless they absolutely disgust you because you're not solving anything. Stop arguing about the look of these women and then turn around and swan over the physique of a fictional character like Bruce Wayne. I'm a fairly athletic guy and there is no way I'm ever going to look like that unless I became a never need to work again billionare and could spend all my time training. But that's not how life works and frankly I don't care. I want to read a good story and if I can put up with having to look at adonis male figures in every book why is it so much to ask that I also be allowed to look at aphroditic female figures as well? As I said, as long as they are written correctly who cares how they look or are drawn.

I'm glad you're doing this, Sara. It might be tiring or discouraging but sadly women will never be treated with respect if they don't fight for it. So keep fighting!

This is a great article that talks about the same thing (I found it as a link from one of your links).

Here's for everyonehttp://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/

@Daveyo520 said:

@Mr_Skeleton: You know there are good comics out there right? Not just those 2 issues.

I know and I read some and I would love to read others, but maybe I am oversensitive but the fact that every superheroine has at least DD breast size really turns me off. It's like reading a 14 year old's fantasy.

@Mr_Skeleton: Women in pop culture have large breast in general. Do you not play games, watch TV and movies with girls who show off cleavage? It does happen in everything, not just comics. Really just read good stuff and not be so hung up on their breast size as long as that isn't the only point of the character. Why treat comics harsher and let others get away with it?

Great article Babs I posted one of the more famous articles about the DCnU's portrayal of some female characters, so I'm guilty of fanning the fire. But I do agree that all the attention put on those two specific books should've been paid to Wonder Woman and Batwoman. And this week we saw both Madame Xandau and Zatanna in take charge, leadership roles.

Its true, almost no one has noticed the much more reasonably dressed Zatanna for instance, but many won't because she is reasonably dressed

Love how you talk about sexism towards women in this article but ignore men. Too many times have I seen shirtless or naked men in comics and penis outlines on their tights. And characters like Roy Harper, Bruce Wayne and even Dick Grayson who openly sleep with a plethora of girls every issue.

I know - I don't like something, I should stop reading it! Then it'll go away and never hurt anybody!

Remember when all those KKK guys were selling books on linching, and I destoryed racism by not buying those books?

Remember when not buying Hitler's book totally prevented WWII? I do.

You know what? Maybe instead of "don't buy it", you should PAY SOME GOSH DARNED TAXES! Raise them taxes! Teach people to THINK critically. And then maybe they'll begin to see something wrong with depicting beloved female characters as talking tits with mouth vaginas.

"Ignore the problem, it'll go away" is a coward's solution. And it doesn't work.

@spikevalentine said:

"Sexism" is America's new "Communism" apparently, people just throw around that word without regards of meaning and implication, just as a quick cop-out for the inability to take an art work for what it is.

To start with, we are talking about fictional characters. Really, to think that this is equivalent to rape, sexual harassment, and other real forms of sexism, is to have no regard for the suffering of those who actually suffer it. And by the way, most media, like soaps, also portray me in a "sexist" manner, like men are walking ATM machines, is it a real issue or is it a medium directed to what the female mainstream wants to see? Are we really going to censor fiction just for an unjustified sense of indignation?

My advice, if you don't like it, don't buy it. And if you want to empower the character, write comics, get good at it, and make your stories, and you might even get them published.

It is also laughable to expect this out of a medium that is mostly produced and consumed by male teens and adults (and I am not taking here into consideration the great quasi-feminist works of Joss Whedon, Martin Wagner, Daniel Clowes, Terry Moore, Chris Claremont, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman... which girls are not seeming to mind).

It's ridiculous to complain about how this fiction is handled, seriously, if you don't like what you are getting, just don't buy it, it's the first rule of consumerism. Why would want to ostracize the medium? Humans are sexual by nature, and believe me, in the history of art, sexuality has played a huge role in an artistic work, not to mention this actually is very conservative in comparisson (no that that is any sort of merit).

Sexually progressive cultures gave us mathematics, literature, philosophy, civilization and the rest, while sexually restrictive cultures gave us the Dark Ages and the Holocaust. -Alan Moore

Very good point.

I agree completely with the sentiment that people should "speak with their wallet". It's a syndrome that people develop where they think simply COMPLAINING about something whilst still supporting it with funds and exposure means that they're changing things for the better. They're not.

I haven't read Catwoman or Red Hood, so I don't feel fit to comment. I do know this, though, the Starfire portrayal seems the worst offender I can think of simply because she isn't even the focal point of the book. Her inclusion seems to be to only have a sex object for the two male leads to bounce off of (no pun intended).

Then there's Voodoo, a book I enjoyed BECAUSE it didn't attempt to pretend that it wasn't about its female lead character being someone who takes her clothes off for money. It uses its cheesecake, not as a crutch, but as a platform in which to defy expectations. Some might think it's smut, but if it is, it's smut that's drenched in coats of thoughtful intrigue and genuine threads of horror.

It's obvious that the Outlaws book is going to go down the drain, and I am kind of hoping it does fail (no offense to anyone who likes the book). Starfire is not my favorite character that doesn't mean I hate her. I shook my head when she forgotten her time with the Titans. If this comic is ever going far, I hope Starfire regain her memories. She can't forget her friends like that: Donna, Raven, Gar, Victor, etc.

But I find it very weird that this article is talking about women. I thought this article was called 'Sexism' for a reason. I don't see anything regarding about men.

Of course, I am a bit irritated that women in comics/movies/TV shows are always shown as sexy with big breasts, long legs, and silky hair. But what about men? They are seen as muscular and handsome. We usually see them in tights.

Despite the fact of my rant, I somewhat enjoy this article. It makes me more tempted to pick up Batwoman, but as of now, I don't have the time to go to my local comic store.

This is a comment made by the colorist of the Outlaws book:

"Keep reading, you may find there hasn't been any damage done. She's an alien and a sensualist, she has alien views about sex.

She's not an amnesiac, she's a sensualist who experiences life differently than we do. She's an alien. I'm already working on issue 4, and I can assure you she's not portrayed that way in every issue. I hope you will keep reading.

Don't harden your opinion based on one issue, I hope you will keep reading the next 2 issues to finish the story. Issue 4 begins a new chapter with an emphasis on Starfire"

Thats all im going to say

If theres one thing i hate, its big tits in comic books. it would be so impractical in a battle to have them hanging out like that. and they are quite distracting

Really great article. I haven't read the majority of the new comics, mostly because I don't have enough money. But I keep hearing how Wonder Woman was so great, I think I will check it out. The way Firestar is depicted, was that how Marv Wolfman portrayed her at first? Was that her character back then?

Strong Male Characters: Good, Sleazy / Sexually Active Male Characters: Good, Topless/Shirtless Males: Good

Strong Female Characters: Good, Sleazy / Sexually Active Female Characters: SEXIST!!!!!!!!, Topless (Skimpy) Females: SEXIST!!!

Yes, there is a lot of fan-service, yes some of it out of place but gods, knock off the hypocrisy already. Isn't it sexist to say that women cannot be sexually forward or outright flirty? Are you saying there is not a single woman in the world who acts this way? DC has given us great female characters, Batwoman is the pinnacle here. Catwoman is on the opposite scale. When you have two things on opposite side of the scales, it brings balance.

I will buy Batwoman and I will continue to buy Catwoman because I enjoy both and both have characteristics that real women represent.

Excellent article! Very fair and balanced with a logical point and a solution. you don't attack anybody and you address all the bad points of the issue while offering a reasonable solution.

I'm glad you brought attention to the positive female lead books, which there are actually quite a few of! i think that's a positive! Even if Catwoman and Starfire got a little freaky...Batgirl didnt. Supergirl didnt. Wonder Woman didnt. Batwoman didnt. Black Canary. The Birds of Prey. Lois Lane. Zatanna. etc.

I think this is definitely an issue that's going to be addressed very quickly by DC.

I would also like to add that DC definitely has better female characters than Marvel.

@RickZeo: You're right in that men being portrayed as nothing more than 'strong men' isn't much different from women being used as nothing but sex objects.

Because they're both done for men. Men being portrayed as they are is to appeal to the typical pushed aspect of ideal masculinity. It has nothing to do with appealing to women.

Newsflash: Men are every bit as sexually objectified in comics as women, if not moreso. Namor spent most of his life fighting in a speedo. To this day Kazar, Tarzan, Savage, and others run around in loin cloths. Rarely do X-Men writers miss a chance to have Logan run around shirtless. Ye gods I can't even begin to count how many shirtless workout sessions Bruce Wayne has put on for Alfred's benefit in the batcave. In Summary ladies...get over it.

@TheRedFear said:

Newsflash: Men are every bit as sexually objectified in comics as women, if not moreso. Namor spent most of his life fighting in a speedo. To this day Kazar, Tarzan, Savage, and others run around in loin cloths. Rarely do X-Men writers miss a chance to have Logan run around shirtless. And so on, and so on, and so on...

I was about to say this same thing. stop crying about it.

For the record I did pick up Wonder Woman #1 the week it came out. So far so good ^_^

People should support amazing pieces of art like Habibi and other independent comics and graphic novels by artists that are pushing the boundaries of what can be expressed in this medium instead of paying for the same tired story lines from giant corporations every month. Is there really anything new they can do with Superman at this point? The whole reboot is a dumb marketing ploy.

I wish that sites like this would realize that Super Hero is just one genre of comics and try to branch out more into the ever expanding world of comics or at least change your name to something more accurate like "DC/Marvel News Vine."

@Summoboomo said:

@RickZeo: You're right in that men being portrayed as nothing more than 'strong men' isn't much different from women being used as nothing but sex objects.

Because they're both done for men. Men being portrayed as they are is to appeal to the typical pushed aspect of ideal masculinity. It has nothing to do with appealing to women.

Summoboomo presents a great example of how pages of misguided arguments and reactionary defense can be defeated with three lines of informed perspective.

@spikevalentine said:

"Sexism" is America's new "Communism" apparently, people just throw around that word without regards of meaning and implication, just as a quick cop-out for the inability to take an art work for what it is.

To start with, we are talking about fictional characters. Really, to think that this is equivalent to rape, sexual harassment, and other real forms of sexism, is to have no regard for the suffering of those who actually suffer it. And by the way, most media, like soaps, also portray me in a "sexist" manner, like men are walking ATM machines, is it a real issue or is it a medium directed to what the female mainstream wants to see? Are we really going to censor fiction just for an unjustified sense of indignation?

Can you honestly tell me an image like this where women are strung from the ceiling, showing ample cleavage, in fear for their life, all while on the edge of being violated by tentacles...is just somebody going out on limb? For what purpose? What cause? What end? I think if I were someone who was sexually violated at any point and saw it being used to titillate men as a marketing ploy, I would have good reason to be pretty pissed off. And for the record, you can't really tell what someone opposed to this kind of sexism history is.

I mean Marvel has gone so far as to have Milo Manara illustrate X-women which depicted the following....

Women looking lifeless grasping at one another like blow-up dolls in distress, bound, gagged, and prodded. This isn't filibustering or speculation.

It is also laughable to expect this out of a medium that is mostly produced and consumed by male teens and adults (and I am not taking here into consideration the great quasi-feminist works of Joss Whedon, Martin Wagner, Daniel Clowes, Terry Moore, Chris Claremont, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman... which girls are not seeming to mind).

Women make up a considerable percentage of what could be a larger audience, a far more sure-fire goal than simply appealing to those that are already buying comics. And seeing as how sales are in the sinker (record lows) appealing to half the population might not be an unreasonable expectation.

It's ridiculous to complain about how this fiction is handled, seriously, if you don't like what you are getting, just don't buy it, it's the first rule of consumerism. Why would want to ostracize the medium? Humans are sexual by nature, and believe me, in the history of art, sexuality has played a huge role in an artistic work, not to mention this actually is very conservative in comparisson (no that that is any sort of merit).

Sexuality isn't something I frown upon. The recent issue of Catwoman wherein Batman and Catwoman had sex actually doesn't offend me in it's depiction because it made sense. Of course they have sex, of course they've had sex, and of course they enjoy it. I'm not opposed to sexuality and I don't think anyone really is.

Sexually progressive cultures gave us mathematics, literature, philosophy, civilization and the rest, while sexually restrictive cultures gave us the Dark Ages and the Holocaust. -Alan Moore

Oh and I'm so sure those societies never encompassed slavery or equal rights and protection for women or anything like that. God knows, history has leanings toward the male perspective in general given the first three letters of the word at the very, very, very least.

I have a solution.... objectify me more :-D

As a guy, I will admit that I do spend my fair share of time admiring the female body, however, at no point do I not respect women and the ones in comics are no exception. Sure Wonder Woman, Power Girl, and Starfire are sexy, so are Storm, Jean Grey, and Psylocke, but all of those women are tough as nails and stronger and more powerful than most of the guys in their respective universes. Storm was even leader of the X-Men once AND she's a queen. Sure these women are sexy but no one can deny how strong they are, either.

@TheRedFear said:

Newsflash: Men are every bit as sexually objectified in comics as women, if not moreso. Namor spent most of his life fighting in a speedo. To this day Kazar, Tarzan, Savage, and others run around in loin cloths. Rarely do X-Men writers miss a chance to have Logan run around shirtless. Ye gods I can't even begin to count how many shirtless workout sessions Bruce Wayne has put on for Alfred's benefit in the batcave. In Summary ladies...get over it.

That is absolutely ridiculous. These men are undressed or nude or anything of the sort in contextual situations. I've seen Bruce Wayne naked in a shower but I've never seen him go out fighting villains wearing a thong or even an exposed wrist for that matter and there are hundreds upon hundreds of superheroes of which you could say the same and they're almost all male. Namor and Aqua Man are two men against several dozens of women who go out wearing next to nothing and conveniently leaning in positions that make it look like they're already being penetrated. Shirtless is one thing, having a thread-thin line meant to indicate a strap between butt cheeks on full display is Psylocke's REGULAR costume- she wears that outside.

For women, it's a constant free for all. Huntress' waist is exposed, her upper legs, and sometimes her butt while Nightwing is suited up completely. And muscles? So what. They're not even for the express purpose of appealing to women, it's meant to be an ideal for men as well and often times they're exaggerated to proportions that aren't even enviable. Even in the films, Tobey Maguire and Brandon Routh wore penile restricters but it's a-okay to see Kirsten Dunst in a wet t-shirt scene, right?

There's some sense and functionality to a man like Bruce taking off his shirt to workout. But why would a woman like the Huntress leave her abs exposed when someone could easily gut her?

@FoxxFireArt:

Motoko Kusanagi has to take her cloths off to use certain abilities. I would buy that this was to reflect the nature of her technology, except for the way that scene was shot. No, I think there was a different reason for that detail. Outside of that I'd agree she is a pretty strong female character... but she clearly knows her place.

I'm speaking from the film, and I don't know that this happens in the comic or not... but regardless, I think it makes her a hard sell for feminism in Anime.

Wow, Babs. =) This is a fine article. One of the best. I am always grateful for those who have the courage to stand up. I fully agree, our $$$ speaks, should we use it to buy great books (BatWOman is great).... rather than crap. Back when X-Women was p!ssing me off, I was not able to really keep my cool. Along with my mouthing off tons of expletives, I burned it upon the advice of a friend. I only wish I had heard his review before I had wasted my hard earned cash.

I am not a typical feminist. I am probably not a feminist, though I have on many many occasions been called one by those who thought they were shooting me down, insulting me by hurling the word at me. Of course I took it as a badge, with a smirk knowing, I am not at all conventional in my beliefs.

For the most part, I am a fan of the scantly clad & busty super-heroine and villainess. I'm all for strong, sexy characters. But, they MUST maintain a powerful sense of self and not be reduced to mindless, heartless booty fare.

For me, there is a line there that can't be crossed. In a world of fiction; integrity - her true self whoever that may be, must be evident, maintained and not sacrificed or it just p!sses me off to no end.

I have a very open mind when it comes to what is acceptable behavior in society. I make no judgement on those who choose to live a wilder life. To each their own. There are incredible women in all walks of life. I think this is why I am so drawn to books like Voodoo. And characters like Starfire... god I hope they haven't ruined her for me.

I haven't read all of the books, so I can't honestly say how I feel about them... yet. I wish I could, I am really interested to see if I feel the same as so many others or if I will see them differently.

I don't know, but I am going to kick my Stores butts if my Catwoman & Outlaws isn't here, tomorrow! (they shipped 8 days ago!) Grrr. :/

Thanks again, for a thought provoking article. =)

edit to add; I will be taking your advice to heart. Should I hate what Outlaws #1 has done with Starfire, I will cancel my subscription, I am not that fangirl who will support crap, no matter how much I might have previously liked the character.

Yeah, but when your launching 52 brand new comics and an overwhelming majority of them are like this? That's a problem.

@Babs: Think sexism is going both ways though. Most of the male characters look like their pump steroids and came straight out of a calvin klein magazine. Most of them are also very sexually active (apart from goody two shoes like Superman) etc. While i don't see fan service shots like from starfire it actually does look weird in most of their physiques.

As for starfire, this new behavior isn't making me think of her negatively. While the true intention (like power girl) was to make them as sexually appealing as possible this never bothered me much because i could see the characters inside both (especially due to Jimmy and Amanda's old PG series which sadly went nowhere). I wish they would give people like PG more screen time and better villains etc. I mean she's a kryptonian powerhouse. She deserves to be written better than this! Like you said in a previous article that series took what used to be a poster girl and give her some depth and "oh she also happens to be voluptuous". For starfire the shots and proportions of her body are pretty weird but heck look at supes in some comics(especially jim lee) or many other male characters all flexing ridiculous muscles and action poses.

Finally in real life its just an old notion to think if a girl is sexually hungry or w/e she's a slut or whore. Goes back to the 19th century where if a woman enjoyed sex she was a prostitute and the good decent house wife was expected only to do it to make babies for her country ( "close your eyes and think of England"). So really there is nothing wrong with starfire saying she wants to have sex with someone. Frankly it could be Oliver Queen and i'm sure people would just think he's more awesome. batman just screwed with catwoman and all i hear is how much a slut catwoman is. Really? Isn't there also a double standard at play here. Why can men be portrayed (in any literature) as sexual beasts but if a woman goes similar terms then you've just turned her into a sub-human sex object?

Just my two cents.

@HexThis: Artists have the right to put out whatever they want regardless of who gets offended because of their Victorian sense of morality, and you have the choice not to buy it. I suggest you go to your local retailer and ask for the statistics of how many males and females are subscribed, you'll see there is a HUGE difference, and it reflects in the sales, also, how many male artists against female? It looks to me that girls aren't showing that much interest in the medium, just as men really don't watch soaps. By the way, there are a lot of quasi-feminist books you could check out like Hepcats, Strangers in Paradise, Echo, The Ballad of Halo Jones, Tank Girl, Grendel (specially when Christine Spar took the mantle), the Death minis, X-Men Legacy as of lately, and the X-Books in general contain strong female characters, Wonder Woman, Buffy, the Guild, Dollhouse, you should be checking out the brand new Womantology... Did you actually read that Claremont/Manara one-shot??? The X-Girls take down a whole bunch of mean men, if that's not empowering, I don't know what is... by the way, using your logic, this should be sexist:

@B'Town said:

I am probably not a feminist

So many people seem confused as to what feminism actually is. You ARE a feminist if you believe that women should have equal rights as men. Yeah, equal; not greater. That's all there is to it.

The "feminists are crazy" thing - which puts people off the word - comes from the very, very few man-haters who mistakenly call themselves feminists. Please don't buy into that bullshit.

Basically, saying "I am not a feminist" means that you are an ass.

Not targeting you, Mr B Town, but it saddens me to see people reject a term of equality based on a negative stereotype.

while I agree with a lot in the above article, keep in mind, people are arguing over a fictional character's sex life and this argument has gotten vitriolic and it's frankly ridicuous. The kid reading the comic was fucking manipulative and almost obscene. Jesus, this is a goddamn comic with schlock in it, not the fucking Health Care Bill. Hell, if you are willing to say ''If you don't like it, don't read it.'' why can't you just let it go and leave it at that.

@Zephyire: We should all be humanists, is all :D

So no more tights and someone tell Namor to put a shirt on

@TheRedFear said:

Newsflash: Men are every bit as sexually objectified in comics as women, if not moreso. Namor spent most of his life fighting in a speedo. To this day Kazar, Tarzan, Savage, and others run around in loin cloths. Rarely do X-Men writers miss a chance to have Logan run around shirtless. And so on, and so on, and so on...

I was about to say this same thing. stop crying about it.

@spikevalentine said:

@Zephyire: We should all be humanists, is all :D

Heh, that would certainly be easier...

@B'Town said:

@Zephyire: That would be Ms. B'Town. haha.

My bad!

I never read 'Red Hood and the Outlaws' #1' but i will check it out just to see what the big deal. But I own the trade to Batwoman and its really good.

@spikevalentine said:

@HexThis: Artists have the right to put out whatever they want regardless of who gets offended because of their Victorian sense of morality, and you have the choice not to buy it. I suggest you go to your local retailer and ask for the statistics of how many males and females are subscribed, you'll see there is a HUGE difference, and it reflects in the sales, also, how many male artists against female? It looks to me that girls aren't showing that much interest in the medium, just as men really don't watch soaps. By the way, there are a lot of quasi-feminist books you could check out like Hepcats, Strangers in Paradise, Echo, The Ballad of Halo Jones, Tank Girl, Grendel (specially when Christine Spar took the mantle), the Death minis, X-Men Legacy as of lately, and the X-Books in general contain strong female characters, Wonder Woman, Buffy, the Guild, Dollhouse, you should be checking out the brand new Womantology... Did you actually read that Claremont/Manara one-shot??? The X-Girls take down a whole bunch of mean men, if that's not empowering, I don't know what is... by the way, using your logic, this should be sexist:

"Victorian sense of morality"....are you joking me? I said in the scene where Catwoman and Batman got it on that they should've featured angles where Batman was more visible because I thought the scene was hot. The difference between that and a beloved character prostituting herself out to random men like Starfire is quite large. It makes sense to have nudity and sexuality where it is needed, I'm not opposed to that. But in instances where it completely dismisses the character, where the character is in some way degraded or humiliated in way that's meant to be titillating, or a situation in which the character is put in a sexual position through convenient, fan-service means is not something that's appealing to me.

There are some female characters who even in casual circumstances are always heavily sexualized and objectified. Plus, with the underwhelming effort editors are putting into incorporating women how do we know they wouldn't want to read comics? I've run into far more female fans of Catwoman who are regular readers, longtime fans who love her. With sales as dismal as they are appealing to women wouldn't be a bad idea...and they don't all like soaps. Plenty of women watch True Blood, they watched Buffy, and whole slew of other shows very much in the sci-fi category.

And I don't think asking that artists and writers be less sexist is infringing upon their rights. Some people don't like how Asian people were depicted as being almost jaundice or early renderings of black people didn't paint them in the most favorable light. Simply because a person has a right to draw those things it doesn't mean those of us who are outraged don't have a right to be ourselves....we are customers after.

Plus, Manara draw porn for a living, that's what he does. I'm not opposed to porn, he can do as he likes but when it impedes on characters like this, in this way, in a comic that was supposed to appeal to women...it's just downright offensive and dumb. I don't care how many "mean guys" they beat up. They were still put in positions like this...

And this image....

@spikevalentine said:

It depicts Angel FULLY CLOTHED, basked in shadows to a point where it obstructs him, and you can hardly see anything at all. Torture is something that is bound to come up in comics but I bet that for every example you can find of a man put in a position like this where he is being sexualized there are 20 examples of women put in that situation that are 10 times more salacious.