Rant: The Tone of CBMs

There has (yet again) been a lot of talk recently about the tone of CBMs, especially when comparing DC's films to Marvel's and vice versa. Here is the general blind complaint. DC's movies are too dark. Marvel's are too silly. Now yes, DC's movies do tend to be on the darker side, and Marvel's tend to be more lighthearted, butguess what? That's AMAZING. We are so lucky to have two different companies making two different types of films at the same time. Because if they weren't, we'd be getting 5-6 of the same CBM each year with the main character being interchangeable. That would get old, very fast, and it would kill the industry. This great contrast between the two companies allows for each one to develop catered audiences, while also crossing into each others target audience. If you don't like how one company does it, please shut up. Just watch the company you prefer if you are so planted in your beliefs that you won't give another tone a chance. Hopefully (who am I kidding) one day you people will see the beauty in the contrasting tones, and come to love it. Just stop making bland overbearing claims and assumptions about either company because you don't like the way they do things. Guess what, someone does.

K bye.

A lot of people love to complain about either Marvel and DC, and I just don't see the point. It's the one thing I don't like about movies based or inspired off the books, the readers form in their minds how the movie should be before watching it, that is where they go wrong. If you don't like dark tone of the DC films go watch Marvel, and vice versa. I personally prefer the darker tones of DC to the Marvel films.

The problem is DC is not meant to be dark, DC comics are known for being fun, bright, colorful, and heroic. Mark Waid, Grant Morrison, and Geoff Johns are the three most influential modern writers of DC comics, all 3 have made a career out of saying "It's ok to be a hero" and bringing back concepts, characters, and ideas from the past, and making them relevant today. The DCCU on the other hand has not shown any indication of sharing that belief, and that's a problem.

@captainmarvel4ever: Well these are movies. They are different takes on characters they are inspired by. It doesn't have to be the same as the comics, because that is a different art form and medium all together.

Well said

I am DC guy so I am fine with their tone...I love Marvel movies but Captain America or Iron Man 1 or Avenger type of movies,when Marvel movies put a lot of jokes where it is really not needed it ruins the mood for me

In before someone mentions Clark not saving people in MoS.

@eyedcyou: That's just it though, if it's going to be different then the comics, and go as far as ignore the core of the characters and who they are, then why should I, a person who loves the comics and characters, care? better yet if they don't care to adapt the source material properly, why make them in the first place?

I want to just ignore these films and stick to the comics, but sadly we live in a world where the tv series and movie adaptions of these comics, end up determining how they will be written. So I can't ignore it, and as such I really don't like what they're doing to these characters that mean the world to me.

Not one movie in the DCCU has been remotely "dark"

@captainmarvel4ever: DC only have three dark films which are all Batman. MOS is DCCU only film and it's not dark, it's just Not lighthearted like MCU films.

I don't have a problem with Marvels tone, I have a problem with them not knowing when to leave the jokes out.

@kfabz-23: Man of Steel is dark, it's very grey, lacks the confidence necessary to be a true Superman film, and has Superman murder a man with his bare hands, I count that as a dark film. Everything else WB has revealed to use shows they want to continue that dark, grey, and unheroic trend with a total lack of confidence for their characters.

@buttersdaman000: I was just referring the DC films in general (TDKT, Burton Batman films, Watchmen, etc.)

I know you hate Man of Steel, and I'm not going to get into that discussion with you, but I think saying that they ignore the core of characters is going way too far. You're just judging that off of one film, and Superman killing Zod is really the only out of character thing he did.

The Burton Batman films were dark, and Watchmen was SUPER dark.

To be fair here, We've only seen footage of Batman (who is a really dark character) and pictures of the SS (who are all villains). It's very possible that we'll get some lighthearted films with Flash/Cyborg/Shazam!.

@eyedcyou: No that seems very in line, they failed to establish who Superman really is deep down, they never delivered a proper message on heroism, and Superman killed a man with his bare hands, so I think it's more then fair to say they missed the point of making a Superman movie.

And I could sit here and counter all those points, but I'm not going to. I have no problem with you not liking Man of Steel, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread.

@eyedcyou: I'm fine with Batman and the Suicide Squad, but that Aquaman reveal really killed my spirit. It's colorless, it looks like they're trying way way too hard to make him look "Bad ass" and it just lacks confidence. The reason Geoff Johns Aquman run worked so well was because Johns was confident that letting Aquaman be himself would speak to his audience, and it did. That Aquaman just doesn't have that same feeling.

@eyedcyou:

And I could sit here and counter all those points, but I'm not going to. I have no problem with you not liking Man of Steel, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread.

Agreed, sounds like the right move

@captainmarvel4ever: Again, to be fair, the picture is black and white. The outfit likely isn't colorless. The WW outfit looked the same in her picture, but with the DeAndre Jordan reveal, we saw that it was actually quite colorful.

@captainmarvel4ever: Man of steel is the road of Clark Kent becoming Superman, we see him in a Superman suit but we don't see him as Superman yet, catch my drift?

It was gritty not dark.

Unheroric? Batman was undeniably heroic in the Nolan trilogy, Kal-El in MOS goes up against an army of super aliens and saves 7 billion people. In what world is that unheroric.

@kfabz-23: Exactly, and as a movie it failed to do that, it failed to properly show the most important aspects of him becoming Superman, it failed to give us a proper moral message on being a hero. Instead it felt very dark, and lacked any of the joy or color that is associated with the essence of Superman.

The film focused on him carelessly fighting the aliens with no concern for human life, and ended on him doing the one thing that Superman has spent his entire career as a hero fighting against. Both of which were done very tastelessly.

As Mark Millar said:

"A Superman movie should be about him saving people, not Avenging. You should walk out of the theater feeling inspired, not depressed"

Yes. People need to stop complaining about DC's dark tone. And if they did use a light tone, everyone would be saying how much they are copying Marvel.

My objection isn't with movies being dark or silly in and of itself. But with the laziness in making everything one particular tone. Its one thing to watch a dark Batman movie or a dark Captain America movie. I expect that. But I don't expect that when I watch Fantastic Four, Superman, or Flash. It doesn't have to look gimmicky, one can have color and still have complex and deep story arcs. Unfortunately, its just far more easier to replicate the tone of something successful, than to put in the effort and creativity in trying to capture the essence and tone of different heroes and making it work. In other words, it seems like creators, producers and studios learn all the wrong lessons and that is worrying, because it only takes a few bad films to burst the superhero bubble.

I totally agree. Post this whenever a DC movies vs Marvel movies argument breaks out.

@captainmarvel4ever: you do realise all he did in the film was save people right.

He saved the guys from the oil rig fire.

He saved the coast guard rescue team in the helicopter.

Saved a school bus full of children from drowning.

He attempts to save billions by turning himself in.

Saved a pilot from Faora when she leaped towards him.

Saved Colonel Hardy from Faora.

Saved a soldier, when Nam-Ek throws a van at a helicopter.

Saved humanity when he destroyed the world engine.

Saves Dr. Hamilton and Colonel Hardy which gives them time to open the portal.

Saves humanity again by killing Zod.

(Before you say Superman wouldn't do that, 1988 Superman kills General Zod in Superman #22)

MOS put Superman in the real world, he has all these powers and he just wants to use it to save people. In the real world it wouldn't be fun being put in that situation, they didn't sugar coat how dangerous it would be two godlike beings fighting among men. I think the road of Clark becoming Superman was done very nicely.

@kfabz-23: You're taking what Millar said at far too literal a level.

Also Superman did not kill Zod in that film, in the script and several different cuts of the film (including the original by the director) Superman does not kill Zod, you can clearly see him being taken away by the military after he lost his powers.

MOS put Superman in the real world

Exactly, it's taking a character who represents fantasy at it's height and putting him on the real world, that does not work. Also if I can suspend enough disbelief that I can accept him flying, that I can accept him saving the day without having to murder someone.

If that scene truly was well done, people and critics wouldn't hate this film.

@captainmarvel4ever: I was talking about a comic book, not Superman 2.

The real world approach and the last scene is polarising, that's not necessarily a bad thing. And as much as people claim to hate it, statistics show otherwise.

@kfabz-23: It doesn't matter, even if you can find some examples of that happening, it's still not part of his character. Not to mention people have condemned that story as well, it was later revealed that Zod was alive, and within that story Superman exiled himself from earth.

No, statistically speaking that film has an F- from Rotten Tomatoes, and after it's first week viewership for the film took a massive drop, not to mention that while it made money, it still failed to come close to projected revenue.

@captainmarvel4ever: The 56% means that 56% of the critics recommended it. Which means they are split, just like the fans. The fan score on RT is 76% on the other side.

@captainmarvel4ever: loool the publics opinion is more relevant than Rotten tomatoes. Rotten tomatoes is a extremely small percentage of the millions of people who went to watch it.

It was 3rd place in 2013 highest selling Blu-Rays only behind Frozen & Despicable Me. PEOPLE'S choice best Superhero film in 2013. IMDB blockbuster of the year topping Fast and Furious 6 & Ironman 3 a poll that was voted by A LOT of people. WB highest domestic selling movie of the year. Not to mention all the competion it had when it was released, World War Z, This is the end, Dispicable me & Pacific Rim. Of all those film only one sold higher than MOS.

So statistically yes it done good not amazing but good. Good enough for WB to move on with the DCCU.

Thanks you

@eyedcyou: Exactly, but for a film of that budget to have a 56% means there is a problem. Also a lot of people (myself included) liked Man of Steel on the first viewing, but since then have changed opinions on it.

@kfabz-23: Rotten Tomatoes score is based on the average of over a hundred different reviews from a multitude of different critics.

Again, it had one of the biggest (in fact many sites have gone as far as to say it broke records for) advertising campaigns for any film in recent years, and the fact that it still had such a massive drop and still failed to meet it's projected revenue by several hundred thousand dollars speaks to how people felt about it. Heck I've talked to plenty of friends and relatives about how they felt about the film, and everyone said they found it very enjoyable. Two people I talked to even said they walked out in the middle of the film.

@captainmarvel4ever: you dislike it, I like it let's leave it as that.

Agreed. But the tone should depend on the character in question. They turned Superman to a Twilight reject which completely goes against the character in the comics. But yeah, most DC movies should have a dark tone, but Superman should be far more heroic and less of a drama queen.

@manchine: read my earlier post, I already proved he was nothing but heroic. Same people that say they weren't faithful to the character are te same dudes that say his boring.

Jesus, why does every DC thread end up with people arguing about MOS?? F^ck.

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

More than half the budget was paid by product placement.

The humor actually does bring down some tense moments in the marvel movies, and it can demean the villains.

Case in point: The Mandarin. You can't tell me that wasn't wrong.

CONGRATULATIONS MOS

@the_stegman: Seriously haha. And I didn't even mention Man of Steel in the OP.

@eyedcyou: I'm tired of it! Superman killed, Superman smashed some buildings, get the hell over it. If you don't like it, if it's not "Your Superman", boycott by not watching the movie, don't hate on it on every thread or comments section.

exactly. screw the fanboys

~MiB

These threads are generally started by the pro MoS crowd....which I understand because DCCU has only 1 movie to talk about thus far, so it is all DC fanboys can really talk about right now as far as praising movies.

@eyedcyou: I completely agree with you man, I wish everybody had the same thinking as you about this matter.

Mos film was more realistic and modern on he would live and be in our world.

Yep. No pursuit of truth and justice. No pondering what it means to be a true hero........

Just killing a man with your bare hands. Thanks, Zack Snyder! Direct a Superman movie again when the state of California freeze over!

A Superman movie is not about Superman whining about his powers or giving speeches about how great he's going to be for the world. Its about being a real hero with super powers a great deal beyond mankind. Its about being a super hero!

@dum529001: again the film wasn't a Superman film because he wasn't Superman yet. It was Clark's road to becoming Superman.