Rant: DIVERSITY FOR THE SAKE DIVERSITY!! Political Correctness Police JUST WENT HULK ON COMIC BOOKS

Now that I've gotten your attention with that sensational title, here's a rant"

So it has been found out that Sam Wilson will be taking the up the mantle of Captain America.

And the new Thor ( or the person with that is worthy of the power of Thor) is going to be a woman.

This is cool. I like it when they change things up. Can't wait to see what they do with the new story lines will go.

What's not cool is the people moaning about the change. Especially, so called "True Fans".

I am so tired of this nonsense. So sick and tired of these true fans complaining whenever a character's race, gender, or sexuality is changed.

Marvel/DC don't retire their main characters. They reuse them over and over again. Scott Summers was a teenager in the 1950s and he's now currently in his early thirties or late twenties. And to keep them fresh and new, they change them over and over again. A character right now will be WAAAAY different that they were in their original comic.

This is ridiculous. Characters constantly change yet no one cares unless you change the race/gender/sexuality.

You can change the origins, you can change the name, the time, their affiliation (good/evil), team, country, age, even their powers, but the minute you change the race, gender, or sexuality, all helheim is loose.

These so called true fans just come out in droves and talk about:

"Too PC"

"Change for the sake of change"

"Forced Diversity is Bad"

There was no outrage when Bucky became the Captain.

There was no outrage when a frog or those other men was given the power of Thor.

But make the new Captain America a black man? Or make Thor a woman?

"Oh noes!! Someone protect the spruce material."

I'm sick of it.

It's just plain ole bigotry.

They could make Cap into a neo Nazi zombie with a laser beams and rainbow but powers and these "True Fans" won't bat an eye unless you change his skin tone or make him think Doctor Strange is cute in a tux. Nonsense.

Rant over!

I was bracing myself but this went in a direction that I really like.

I have so many thoughts about people who cry about 'forced diversity' and I am far too tired to type them out at the moment, but I'll be coming back to this thread sooner or later and doing so.

Eh

Just because some don't take the butchering of their favorite characters lightly, doesn't mean they're bigots. While some do go overboard, they have a right to be upset.

Beata

I actually remember a lot of complaints when Bucky became Cap. Complaints about how he wasn't worthy of the stars and stripes.

Some characters I'm fine with change but others it seems like it would ruin the core concept of said character.

To hell with "core concepts" this is a time of change!

Steve will be Captain America again in less than a year and Thor will be wielding Mojlnir again in less than a year so I don't know what the big fuss is about

You forgot to mention also how people ranted when Wally West was also revealed to be black in his New 52 debut and many even called those who accepted the change as "having no idea of Wally's legacy during the 90's" or "the Flash we grew up with".

I actually agree with you OP. Like you said more important things about characters have been changed and got less complaints than race and gender changes.

I like Sam Wilson a great deal and am curious to see what will come out of him stepping into the role of Cap. The changes with Thor I'm less thrilled about. Not because he is now a she, but because I've been loving the direction of the series so far. Thor's relationship with Roz Solomon, Old King Thor and his granddaughters. I havent had my fill of that or Esad Ribic yet. If those are still elements of the series then I'm on board. But until I know for sure, I'm gonna remain uneasy about this. That being said these types of changes still often bother me for two reasons. It feels like a gimmick and the changes never stick. I understand that Marvel and DC are trying to add diversity to their lines but there seems like better ways to go about it. Create new characters, push existing ones into the spotlight. I love to see second and third tier characters get the spotlight.

I'm really interested in this because I've heard people say they feel like its just another reboot marketing ploy, but the response from people who dont read comics seems almost more overwhelming than regular readers.... i guess if it is a marketing ploy its working really really well

But i'd like to be an optimist and hope that marvel really wants to add diversity while genuinely progressing their stories.

I agree, it's a gross over reaction

No. People are well within their right if their favorite characters are getting butchered just to appeal to movie watchers or shock value.

@allstarsuperman: I agree.

@agent9149: Why is Sam Wilson a bad replacement for Cap other than being black? He's been Cap's partner off and on since the late 60s, he has been trained by Cap, he's in good shape and is no less patriotic than Steve so its not much different than when say Bucky, or Spirit of 76 took over the mantle. I'm not saying its not a money grab but considering Sam Wilson's extensive history with Cap it actually makes a lot of sense for Steve to pass the mantle on to him.

As for Thor, as I've said many times today, he's been replaced 5 times, that's 5 separate occasions where someone other than Thor has used his name and had his powers, it being a woman this time shouldn't be treated any differently.

@allstarsuperman: The truth.

So we're just going to pretend that all those times both these characters were temporarily replaced before they were doing movies just didn't happen? In point of fact this isn't even the first Black Captain America. With Thor you had a random dude from the future, a construction worker and a dude from a documentary film crew take on the name and power, I guess because they were dudes it doesn't matter because people are interchangeable as long as they have the same body parts. Look I'm not saying this will be good, it might be great or it might be awful, who knows. What I'm saying is it isn't the first time either of these characters have been replaced, and it probably won't be the last and its just not worth freaking out over and making a big deal over the gender or skin color of said almost certainly temporary replacement is just making you sound bad.

Every single comic book character of any significance has gone through this at least twice. Look at Superman, after "Death of Superman" he had 4 replacements going at the same time. Also Mon-El took up the mantle for a bit once. Batman has had replacements, Blue Beetle, Dr. Fate, Flash and even Wonder Woman. Considering the long history of this exact thing happening I don't see why this time should be treated any differently.

@joshmightbe: Nope. Nothing Wrong. It makes perfect sense. Sam is the perfect person to be the next captain America. Captain America has been basically his mentor.

I agree.

Thirded.

I have no opinion on this change up. It happens thoughout comics everywhere, other people take the mantle.

However, I do not agree with your statement. He definitely is not hte perfect person to pick up the shield. There's three off the top of my head that make plenty more sense.

@agent9149: You deserve a medal. I thought that this was going to be bad when I came in,but turns out that it was a rant that I agree with. Unfortunately,some people will always complain (months in advance) whenever the slightest change happens to their characters...

Not that some complaints don't have substance,but characters are ALWAYS in a state of change and whatnot. Hasn't a woman taken the mantle of Thor in the past,btw?

True. I am looking forward to when you type it.

Hopefully I get tagged lol

In an interview,it also said that Steve is going to be a mentor to him (I think that it's gonna be Captain America training).

Besides Bucky,Sam is the best choice imo because of his close (often overlooked) relationship with Steve. It's not like he was created 3 years ago and only appeared as Captain America's friend for less than 10 comic appearances....

@nickthedevil: I never said he was the perfect person to take the mantle, just saying he's better than some random new guy or a lot of others who might have taken it if not for him. I'm sorry but Patriot wouldn't be right for it because despite basically being Cap Jr. he doesn't have the same level of experience necessary to fill the role, Sam has experience, some decent skills and a deep connection to Steve so we could do worse than having Sam hold down the fort until Steve inevitably returns.

@joshmightbe: You deserve a follow. I forgot to add that in my post

Thank goodness OP. This really needed to be said.

It's problems like this that happens when the core readership, i.e. white male demographic is under the impression that they are actually being attacked in their daily lives. They moan over a false perception of lost power. That is what I find most pathetic about true comic fans.

This was in response to the other guy.

Unless he quoted you. I can't tell, this computer doesn't read quote boxes.

But I would have loved to see Patriot become Captain America.

Sure, he doesn't have the same amount of experience, but he would have had to get the experience. It would have given him some spotlight, and given him enough story to grow into the role.

I'd read the shit outta that.

Steve is still Steve, Thor Odinson is still Thor Odinson, not wearing their respected "mantle" doesn't change those characters as individuals this is just another part of their story a chance to see these characters dealing with different things while still retaining the way they are.

You can rant all you want about how they are changing the character but they really aren't Captain America is Sam Wilson his own character whoever Thor is is her own character they're taking the "mantle" but that doesn't change who those characters are other than the name they go by. You want to follow "your" Cap or Thor? Do it. Steve is still around and so is Thor Odinson.

@nickthedevil: I'm not saying that would be a bad story, just saying if its Steve's choice which with what we know so far seems likely then from a logical stand point Sam makes a lot of sense. Steve might like Patriot but he's the type of guy who'd pick someone he knew could do the job over someone who would need to grow into it. Plus things have never exactly went smoothly for people in the Cap suit so he might even be trying to spare a younger guy like Patriot from the mountain of s**t that comes with the title, but knows Sam can handle it because he's helped train Sam to be able to handle it.

Exactly. And there are plenty of valid reasons for criticising this move that aren't racist or sexist at all. It's people like the OP that fan the flames far more with blind defence of forced diversity and pandering to the masses than people who object to these ridiculous changes for good reason. Don't be so dismissive of those who have the right and the legitimacy to complain about gimmicks or PR or rubbish like this.

Yep, its as if folks either don't read comics, or think their outrage can hide their true hateful or ignorant reasons for complaining.

So many purported "comic fans" refuse to accept the nature of the medium they so love. These sorts of changes are constantly going on, either as stunts, as allusions to contemporary culture and changes, or as stop-gaps, and baby steps towards equality and representation.

We have had heroin addicts, AIDS, homosexual characters, rape, etc for the first time in comics, and they heralded new ages, new revelations in writing and publishing, and new grounds for the medium. It's not perfect.

Obviously new, original, compelling characters are the goal, but awareness and word of mouth are impossible to qualify or quantify.

So we can admit that comics are a for profit industry, and say ok, these small steps are far from perfect, but look at this discussion, this awareness. Or we can complain and wish it was perfect, when our country, our state, our own laws and business we work for are just as far from perfect, our TV shows, our favorite authors and artists and magazines are in exactly the same boat.

If it is just a storyline, so be it, but we are talking. If it is permanent (lol comics) then so be it, we are talking about it.

And as far as the "right to complain about MY CHARACTER THAT I LOVE" argument now appearing in this thread and others, are the capslock letters I just used enough for you to see how silly that stance and statement is or do we need to have a discussion about that as well?

The thing that the OP, and almost everyone else who is arguing here, is forgetting is that people are allowed to have their own opinions, and no one has the right to stop them. Even if somone actually came right out and said "I don't want a black Cap because i don't like black people", that is their opinion. Does that make it right? of course not, but they have the right to think it, just the same as you have the right to think that anyone that Does not like changes to the status quo is a sexist racist bigot.

I just prefer new characters, instead of older characters taking someone's mantle, so they can get popular. Let the character thrive on their own.

No! I refuse! Think about what the comic industry is TURNING INTO. Are you kidding me! A black man as Captain America?! A woman as Thor?! Do you sheeple even realize what this means?!?! It means that characters will finally be forced to have -gasp- NEW STORYTELLING OPPORTUNITIES. NEW lenses of which to look at the world and sociocultural issues! It's downright UNAMERICAN. We've been having the same damn stories for SEVENTY YEARS and these immigrants or feminists or terrorists or whoever come to our beloved country and start pushing their "diversity" agendas on heroes who haven't seen cultural or demographic change since the days where Goddamn Franklin Roosevelt was still president. As if soccer and the metric system weren't bad enough, now they want to change our comic books! The last bastion of the AMERICAN WAY. Look people, how in the holy hell can a black man be Captain AMERICA. AMERICA. THAT A ON HIS HEAD DON'T STAND FOR AFRICA. As we all know, the American identity can ONLY, and I mean ONLY, be experienced by one kind of people, just look at the United States Senate! You think the Senate is unamerican?! Huh?! Now what the hell do you think's gonna happen? OUTSIDERS are gonna come in on our holy stomping grounds, and start reading OUR COMICS. Comics are only for white people, and now they'res gonna be blacks, women, people other than the 36% of the population comics have ALWAYS catered to.

This are grave, dark days for comic readers fellow Viners. Our way of life is on the out. I say we stand up and MAKE UNINFORMED FORUM POSTS!

This 100% this. A good majority of the furor wouldn't be as bad if others were not so dismissive or purposely ignorant of where others are coming from. I say purposely ignorant because you can literally lay out and explain every problem you have, show similar examples where sex/race isn't involved and they just ignore it continuing to insist it's some kind of -ist/-ism not matter the reason given. Can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen someone go from mild irritation, calm critical to disgusted and strongly fervent over a subject because that type of thing constantly happening to them in a discussion. Then there is this idea that agreeing with what the companies do is some how more valid or right than not agreeing. That there is more right to the people who agree with the actions to express themselves than those that don't.

OP wants to say he's sick/tired well I can tell you people are far more sick/tired of being dismissed and have their motives purposely distorted. That's on top of already being sick and tired of the things they were criticizing in the first place.

EDIT: Lets not forgets how everyone gets lumped together like it's the same people sharing the same reasons all the time.

Female Thor looks cool imo, characters change all the time, I understand why people are upset, but I don't get the criticisms.

@mercy_: this. It's starting to get old. And people never seem to be satisfied. They always seem to find a new reason to hate said change.

Right

Are you f----ng serious right now..

@alphacenturian said:

I am sorry but your post veers far too close to being inappropriate to fall into line with Comicvines standards and rules. "Black people are ruining America" and "only a white man can symbolize America" is a crass and offensive generalization.

You do not like have to like this new creative change for a comic book character but you are not allowed to accuse a group of people of ruining a country just because they have a certain similar skin tone. If you wish to dispute this, feel free to send a PM to either myself or another moderator but otherwise tone back on this sort of commentary. Thanks.

@spideysense44: Hello. Please remember CV has a no swearing policy. I can understand why you might want to use that choice of words given the post you quoted but no exceptions. Thanks. Grawlixes are fine.

He's a racist.Don't waste your time

Diversity for diversity's sake sucks, but then again, we all said Miles Morales would last a month or two tops....

I'll wait and see for myself before placing judgement.

I'm with all of you!

I agree with a lot of this. Its really not fair to dismiss criticism or complaints and reducing it to a type of irrational bigotry must be really frustrating to people who put more thought into it than that and are the furtherest thing from being bigoted, racist or sexist. A lot of assumptions can be reeled out and directed at others when you have individuals who believe their criticisms are right unquestionably or when people don't know their history or they speak for writers as well. "Oh this is just to pander to feminists" "Oh Jason Aaron doesn't want to this, Marvel is forcing him" "Thor isn't a title its his name" and strawman arguments or applying weak arguments to those who don't support individuals same views is unfortunately very common. People pack so many assumptions when it comes to such things I tend to think people just take the easy way out since it can take a very long time to actually address each assumption accurately and even then it can be very time consuming even when people still have an inaccurate idea of others positions and points.

So basically anyone that doesn't like the fact that two of Marvel's most prominent characters has been suddenly offed and been replaced by an entirely different character is just being a racist/sexist bigot?

Forgive for not responding all of your post or you trying to flip the switch. There was only so deep I wanted to get into discussing.

Just want to address one thing.

You're falling into some of the same traps. Take some of my complaints about Falcon taking over for Cap. It doesn't have to do with pandering at all. It has to do with the direction for his character, what I believe is right for him and my general opinion on mantle taking at all.

@dernman: Oh.. heh heh those were examples I was making hence the quote marks, not my actual views.

@sc: My bad. Lazy skimming.