question about god

I consider myself an agnostic, in the since that

"i don't believe God doesn't exist" and "I don't necessarily belive God does exist" in a state of not knowing

however i always tended to lean on the side of God not existing. but recently, i have come across the cosmological argument. this argument at first is simple.

1). everything that "starts" or "begins" has a cause

2). the universe has "began"

3). therfore, the universe.had a cause

u guys follow me? now like I said I was recently an agnostic (in the since that I didn't believe things in the bible, yet some things about science I also am skeptic about). i found things wrong in both religion and science.

the point i made this tread to address is that thinking logically as i always try to, i have to admit that i have no idea how the universe (or even multi verse for that matter) began. can I logically say that God does not exist if the universe had a beginning?

sounds interesting doesn't it

however I must admit ... if a all powerful God does "exist" (despite existence being something that happens on a material level and god being stated to be immiterial) how would his mind function? brains which are the necessity for "thinking, and making choices are physical attributs. if God is not physical, therefore doesn't have a brain and ultimately cannot "think" or do anything.

u see what problem I have ...what should I do

It's just a flawed as believing in god because you are just assuming that everything that begins must have a cause also there's no point in trying to figure out how God works. Also what are you skeptical about in science?

My family strongly believe in god and they asked me a question if i believe in god i said i dont know and they got angry at me

@rpgesus: well, the "first cause" thing is mind boggling

@lettsplay10: I feel u. many of my co workers also look at me funny. especially if they have a recently passed away loved one and I tel them "I don't necessarily belive in god"

Personally I don't believe in a god.

I don't believe in god. Like Thor says (issue 2 of GoT I think) "what kind of god would i be if i ignored prayers". After all that tax money spent on teaching me all sorts of things, I can't simply believe in somthing with no proof.

I personally believe in God... But I accept that my religion is equally as valid as any other.

I'm a Lutheran Christian, but I maintain that everyone is justified in what they wish to believe.

good points ... any ideas on the cosmological argument

@kuroimugetsu: This should be off topic. But whatever. Personally I'm a Deist, but honesty we have no sure way of knowing.

That being said we should all be respectful of others beliefs (so long as they're not Violate about it)

@heatblaze123: good point ...when should it be considered general discussion

How do you define "universe"? How do you define "began"? How do you define "God"? These are actually important questions here. What makes you think the universe had an actual beginning? Well, part of that might depend on how you're defining the universe. What about the innate laws of physics, though? Did they have a beginning? Can you prove whether or not they did?

Let's just say the universe did have a beginning though. Does that mean God did it? Well, how are you defining God? From a strictly logical standpoint, the "cause" of the universe would just have to be something capable of creating the universe. That doesn't have to be God. People sometimes act like it has to be God, but no, it could be literally anything of sufficient power. It doesn't have to have any other particular attributes or characteristics, like God does (depending on how you define him). Again, what if the laws of physics themselves are eternal, with no beginning? Then it wouldn't be unreasonable for the universe to have been created by the laws of physics. Why bring God into it?

There is a theoretical physicist named Lawrence Krauss who wrote a book called "A Universe from Nothing." I have not read it yet, but I have seen his lectures on the matter on youtube, and apparently he has worked out that, at least mathematically, it is possible to start off with nothing more than some quantum fields, and have them spontaneously generate time, space, and matter, i.e. a universe spontaneously arising from the quantum vacuum. No, not proven, but theoretically possible. No God required.

Of course, none of this logically disproves the existence of God (or whatever it is you're going to call God), but it does remove the idea that a God is necessary for the universe to have come into existence at some point in the past.

@freefa11: interesting stuff ... i know who Krauss is. I've seen some debates ... i think he debated william lain Craigat one point.I'll keep what u said in mind