Proof Cell is a solar system buster.

They got scans to back it up

Um, Toriyama isn't "retconning" anything. Not sure where you got that idea.

Feats trump claims only when there are actual feats to go by. If there aren't ample feats, we fall back on appropriate claims. Anyway, you seem to have entirely missed the point I was making. Toriyama wasn't really concerned with feats in the Western superhero comic sense. Hence, there are far more claims than feats in DBZ, and most of those claims are perfectly valid.

I didn't say anything about power-scaling.

I don't care about planets vs. stars.

I didn't say anything about math.

Feel free to reply, or not.

@omnicrono:

Um, Toriyama isn't "retconning" anything. Not sure where you got that idea.

The divergence from GT and editing character history to fit in the hair dye for goku to milk his franchise

@vivide: I've never seen any of the universe/Galaxy busting punches people claim the can perform.

I'm sure you know this and are simply trolling at this point, but Toriyama had no part in creating GT.

GT isn't canon and never was canon, therefore Toriyama isn't retconning anything, because as far as Toriyama and mainstream Dragon Ball continuity are concerned, GT doesn't exist. You can't retcon something that was never part of mainstream continuity to begin with, hate to break it you.

@omnicrono: now at the new lazy line art animations, compare the quality to other works. At this point he is millking the franchise.

I can only believe that until Toriyama stops mucking about and give one of Arale's feats to goku.

I don't know if someone already posted this, but here, another databook that confirms Cell is at Solar System level.

¨El androide acumulo energía como para destruir todo el Sistema Solar y lanzo un poderoso Kamehameha¨

¨The android gathered enough energy to destroy the whole Solar System & fired a mighty Kamehameha¨

Also, Super Perfect Cell is at about half the power of SSJ2 Gohan; Gohan says so in the manga, & this databook confirms it.

¨Un Cell con mas poder que nunca lanzo un Kamehameha con todas sus fuerzas. Con su brazo izquierdo inutilizado y con menos de la mitad de su energía, Gohan pensaba que no podría hacer nada contra el¨

¨A Cell with much more power than ever launches a Kamehameha with all his might. With his left arm crippled & with less than half his energy, Gohan thought he couldn't do anything against him¨

This means that full power SSJ2 kid Gohan is more than Solar System level.

This is sheer stupidity, I can't believe the responses on this thread. You have numerous guidebooks, games, and author quotes about Cell being a solar system buster yet all that info is routinely ignored in favor of pure stubbornness and rooted bias against DBZ (which is highly common here, especially among the top). I'm not one of those that makes crazy statements about power in DBZ but when you have people who routinely downplay DBZ power, invoke double standards, and do a 180 on their logic when it comes to their favorite comicbook character. Well then there is nothing left to do but sit back in awe at the confusion (sometimes started intentionally) and flame wars that are the result.

@micah: Yeah, I've been on this site for a short time, & I barely get online, & I have noticed how weird some peoples logic get when it comes to DBZ, it's almost like their religion says that DBZ is made by the devil & should not be taken seriously XD

With bills having destroyed two suns, there's little to no reason left to doubt the statement..

@princearagorn1: Yeah, & the scan I posted shows that full power SSJ2 kid Gohan is more than a Solar System level. Gohan says he lost about half his power when he got injured, & the databook confirms it, making SP Cell half of SSJ2 kid Gohan´s power

@princearagorn1: also adding the fact the distance between the two stars. Based on a quick search, If we take the average distance better stars in our Galaxy we get a approx of 3.5 light years, our solar system is about 1.8

@princearagorn1: @father_sky_ouranos: @flashback0180 Yeah I just don't get it. DBZ was never supposed to be as complicated as it ends up being in debates, yet most threads end up in some form of confusion and misinformation. I also don't get why their fighters have to go around blowing everything up before other debators take their power seriously. They can't just go around blowing up planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies all for someone to take them seriously. A statement from Vegeta that he would take out the earth if he truly cut loose should be more than enough of an indicator of power.

Yet another reason why I retired from these kinds of debates.

When this kinda stuff about DBZ is being debated for years with no end or conclusion in sight then you just know that it's overrated.

#DBZDebatesArreOverratedAF

@fallschirmjager: A statement given by someone who knows him personally, tends to him, and has seen his rampages of destruction throughout the eons, so this is not hyperbole. It is fact.

I don't see why people can't accept this. If I make a comic book about a regular old dog and in a guidebook I say it can destroy the universe, you can't question that it can because it's in the guidebook. Plain and simple. The dog doesn't even need any feats, if I say it can happen, it can happen.

If the CREATORS of the manga that THEY created say Cell can do it, he can. Doesn't matter if SS >>>>>>>>>>>> Planetary. Maybe they know that Sayians can destroy 700 plants for all they care because it's THEIR book.

If Superman never destroyed a planet and a guidebook states that he can, then he can! If the guidebook says he can destroy Thanos, then he can! We see Gotenks blowing holes in dimensions, like anything makes sense in DBZ. We now see that Beerus is a universal threat.

It's a simple pattern. Roshi (Moon) << Vegeta (planet) / Frieza (more planets) << Cell (Solar System) << Buu (Galaxy or more) / Broly (Galaxy or more) <<< Beerus (Universal or multidimensional ((If he destroys any dimensions in DBS))).

Cell had no reason to bluff, everyone knew his power, and Cell randomly said it in the middle of a battle that he would have won.

Finally, I'm sure Akira doesn't count on science at all. What do you expect Akira to make Cell do? Make him destroy 7 planets? Akira isn't good with astrology, so Cell is more than capable of doing anything Akira (A man who created his own universe, a planet with 10x gravity of Earth, a sayian hybrid who shout through dimensions, aliens who can bust stars, and a pink blob able of destroying an aray of planets) makes him to do.

Some of you guys make things more serious than it is. If the creator says he can do it, makes the character say he can do it, affirms in a guidebook that he can do it, and in the manga the characters don't doubt he can do it, he can do it.

¨El androide acumulo energía como para destruir todo el Sistema Solar y lanzo un poderoso Kamehameha¨

¨The android gathered enough energy to destroy the whole Solar System & fired a mighty Kamehameha¨

Thats incorrect. The translation actually says: "The android gathered enough energy to like destroy the whole solar system and launched a powerful Kamehameha." To like destroy a solar system isnt very convincing.

He is a solar system buster, unless the series prove otherwise by stating something else, he is going to stay a solar system buster, adding guides too this just make it a confirmed fact.

Silver Surfer: Universal power and Galaxy Buster

@jloneblackheart: Properly could though based on a suicidal move like the big crunch yes, but his normal powers then no.

@sun-wukong: Just pointing out this is the same thing. Toriyama saying Cell can destroy the solar system is the same as Stan Lee saying the Silver Surfer could destroy the galaxy. It's embellishment for dramatic storytelling. Doesn't necessarily make it 100% true.

SMH

Unless you are talking about the big crunch then yes, he can destroy a galaxy and more with it. But normal power then no, he has major contradiction too it, where Cell has nothing proving him wrong.

Why? This seems to be a healthy debate. Statements, logic, scans... I see little flaming. Just two sides discussing a topic.

Comic fans when seeing DBZ threads.

this

"Proof"

lol.

@sun-wukong: we haven't seen the Surfer do anything galaxy scale any more than we've seen cell do solar system scale attacks. There's more than one way to destroy the solar system. You're just cherry picking what you like and dismissing what you don't.

Sorry that's not how it goes champ, you are the one cherry picking the whole feat game, it's doesn't work like that, the feat or statement needs to be contradicted by the series, not by what they shown. Surfer statement has been proven wrong thanks to Surfer showing after, where Cell hasn't. Got nothing to do with cherry picking when the series itself proved the statement wrong.

Series opinion and view > Fan expectations.

@sun-wukong: First, do not patronize me or we will have problems.

You are the one doing what you say I'm doing and you fall under the "fan expectations" category you mention.

No one has come even close, canon or non canon, to show they have an attack the scale of a solar system. And no one has done bigger either. Just because the author made a statement and a million fan boys start making power level calculations and look up physics on Wikipedia, does not mean any DB character has the type of attack to achieve this.

Cell could have had the amount of energy to destroy the solar system, but he can't do it all at once. I would say with an ultimate attack he might be able to destroy a star (which would technically "destroy the solar system").

So I'd like to know how the series proved this other than the statement? And I'd like to know how it's disproved the Surfer couldn't destroy a galaxy? You gave an example how he might do it. The author didn't specify the 'how' part, just that he has the power. There are other ways he probably could destroy a galaxy, but we all know he can't in one attack. Exact same thing as Cell.

Oh no, I am debating with a moderator, then forget everything I said

@sun-wukong: I know I'm wasting my time responding since you can't seem to see the fault in your own argument here.

Non-canon already shown far greater in Buu saga, I don't need to argue that, and no, again this is you're expectations. Buu saga canon had more extreme statements and such, nothing shown a stronger characters saying he can do less.

Please elaborate. What are these more extreme statements? Tell me where to find them and I'll get out the manga with the official translation.

The author word > Fan made expectations.

And Stan Lee says the Silver Surfer has the power to destroy a galaxy. I doubt you have any real knowledge of the Silver Surfer outside of scans you've seen in the battle boards. I mean, your examples aren't even what happened in context, but I know they are popular scans.

All my evidence is from the series. I'm a fan. I have all the anime and manga. Absolutely nothing has been shown to back up the statement. No character, all the way up to Beerus (who actually has some real good showings) has shown the ability to launch an attack at that scale or larger.

@jloneblackheart: Don't need too, don't worry about the debate, I don't debate with moderators. Kinda of a personal history between some.

Jesus, he's not a solar system buster people, let it end. Either hold all universes to the same standard or don't debate at all. Character statements and author statements alike are taken with skepticism in comics so the same should be done for DBZ. If the characters doesn't have the feats to back up the statement, then the character is talking out his/her a$$. It's simple as that.

Sorry, doesn't work like that, the series needs to prove the statement wrong not you. You wanting feats to justify the statement is what you want, you're expectations and not what the author intends the statement to be.

When the series contradict the statement, then it's proven wrong. Like Odin and his omnipotent and so on. Not when they show feats. That's simply cherry picking what you want.

What? So basically, you expect people to allow a lower form of debate specifically for DBZ when another characters are held to higher standards of proof? Great, it's hypocritical and fallacious, but great, whatever. As long as you admit it, i'm fine lol

So people are saying Cell can't destroy multiple planets(that's what a solar system is) when the Sayains like Vegeta had no problem destroying one during the saiyain saga, which was a time before everyone started getting super massive power-ups.

By the way, the total energy of our sun could destroy the earth about a billion times over.

Did I say it only applies to DBZ ? It applies to all series. If a character states something and has statements or feats proving otherwise after, then he is contradicted and the previous statement is a hyperbole.

A lower form of debating is mistaken here, asking for feats to justify a statement is truly the lower form, you are using you're own opinion > the series itself.

Yep. Haters gonna Hate.

You implied it and regardless of what you think, it's not how the rules of the battle forum or even regular debate goes. Saying that Cell is right because he hasn't been proven wrong is, again, fallacious -- an argument to ignorance if i'm not mistaken where the burden of proof lies on you, the one claiming that Cell is a solar system buster. Prove it to me and i'll happily concede. Until then it's just a statement and he's not.

No, asking for proof to back up a statement is logical....obviously.....

Sorry did Akira say that comicvine rules are needed to prove if my character is lying or not ?

No, saying Cell is right because nothing proves him wrong means he is right lol. The burden of proof doesn't lie on anything except the person who is trying to prove a character statement wrong. So sorry, evidence from the series please, not what you want to prove he is right. If you don't have evidence from the series to properly contradict Cell statement then he is right , and the guides just back this up further.

Just a statement made by the author, so no. Again you're expectations on what is logical is not proof. Logical is proof from the very series itself or guides, not " oh I won't believe him until he shows the feat" that is just denial and arrogance.

@buttersdaman000:

People have already proved he is a solar system buster, you just don't want to believe it.

Sorry, did Akira intend for his characters to be used on comicvine?

Lol, so you really don't get it? I guess i'm immortal since no one has proved me wrong yet? I guess gay people are gay by choice because no one has proved it's how they're born? I guess global warming is false since no one has proved it's real? I guess Santa exist because nobody has proved he doesn't? I guess the Sasquatch is real since nobody has ever proved he isn't?? I guess if I claim that I Goku himself stepped out of a boomtube last night you would have to believe me since you can't prove me wrong??

And no, the burden of proof literally lies on the person making the claim i.e you.

They literally haven't. If you mean author statements and guidelines, I already addressed the flaw in that logic in my first post. Basically, if we accept that as proof for DBZ, we gotta accept it as proof for comic characters. So, for example, Chris Roberson claims that Superman has attosecond reaction speed, does that mean he really does?

@jloneblackheart said:

Silver Surfer: Universal power and Galaxy Buster

Doom is such a jerk lol.

No, nor did he intend their logic to be used in order to determine the level of his own characters.

Problem is you need to determine how likely it is to happen, if I said I took a fart and went over the rainbow then no one will believe because everyone else on earth would fart and never done so. Though all DBZ characters use Ki, and when stronger, everything increases, Kaioken does prove this thus when a character says he can destroy a solar system when he is league stronger then others, then he is correct.

You're examples are silly and do not compare to Cell situation, the character needs to show the likely hood of what he says coming true, what examples you are giving are just completely obvious they are lying.

If I said I was going to punch the planet today and break it into 2, no one will believe me because people who rival me are unable to do it, thus it's obvious I am lying.

You can't have it both ways. If you can't use logic to determine a characters level as we do for EVERY OTHER CHARACTER then we shouldn't even discuss pit them against characters from other universes.

Again, you can't have it both ways. A fallacious statement isn't dependent on scale so your "fart over a rainbow" analogy is pointless.

Yes, Ki increase but we already know physical stats don't increase linearly. We already know that Toriyama did away with Power levels. We already know that power scaling with ABC logic is BS. So you can't tell me there's any precedent for Cell being a solar system buster just because he says so when the highest level of bust we've seen (at the time) is planetary level.

My examples can be as silly as I want like this -- "I claim that I have a 20 foot vertical jump". I will never prove it, but since I will also never be proven wrong, I must be right, huh? And how do you know i'm lying if you can't prove me wrong? How is my claim anymore outlandish than Cell's??

And hey, claim you can punch the planet in two all you want! As long as you NEVER DO IT, by your own logic, remember, you must be telling the truth.