#1 Posted by danhimself (22553 posts) - - Show Bio

There seems to be a small group of people who are having an issue with Grayson #1. More specifically they have an issue with Dick losing to Midnighter. I'm not sure if they're overestimating Dick or if they're underestimating Midnighter or just don't have that much knowledge about Midnighter. Maybe I'm wrong (I don't think so) but it seemed like the fight ended the way it should have. Midnighter was holding back on Dick and was still coming out on top until the fight was interfered with and Midnighter was bfr'd. Should Dick have done better?

#2 Edited by Night_Raven (148 posts) - - Show Bio

There are people having issues with it?? I thought it was a huge feat for Dick just being able to hang and get complimented by a character like midnighter, dude's a beast! Midnighter is soo far above street level.

#3 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously they don't know much about Midnighter and don't realize Dick could slaughtered by him in a second. They should be happy he had a good showing until things got boring for Midnighter.

#4 Edited by RogueShadow (10757 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a Midnighter fan, but I've seen enough scans to know that he curbs Dick and many street levellers. Haven't read the issue yet though, ordered it after seeing the BOTW.

#5 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (33466 posts) - - Show Bio

There isn't a street leveler alive that could beat Midnighter. It's a huge showing from Dick just to be still alive after 2 mins.

#6 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24927 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Of course he would. Midnighter is far from a street levler, despite what some may think.

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33466 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Yeah, people try and say he's a "high end street leveler" but he's not, he's beyond that.

#8 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

The fight ended the way it should have ended. Most of the people who were offended would probably be glorified Nightwing fanboys and girls who barely know how tough Midnighter is.

#9 Posted by i_dont_like_comics (770 posts) - - Show Bio

i, and people that know of midnighter even a little, would've been spewing lava is dick HAD won.

#10 Posted by RayeGunn (96 posts) - - Show Bio

I have also seen a few people that seemed to think Dick should have done better, but they are usually the same people who think that Midnighter has no powers. I can see why this misconception comes up, his powers are not flashy or obvious, and he is sorta-kinda based on Batman who does not have powers. But when you explain that Midnighter is well above baseline human in terms of strength, speed, reflexes, durability etc. they seem surprised.

I think the fight went about as well as could be expected. It's Dick's book, so Midnighter probably won't win outright, and definitely not in the brutal fashion he usually wins fights, but logically Dick is absolutely no match Midnighter's skills, he just isn't. Midnighter going easy on him and then having the fight interrupted by a third party was the best available option for fans of both characters, I think. Dick got to show that he's a good fighter, and Midnighter didn't suffer a loss that made no sense.

Apparently Midnighter will be showing up in the future as well, possibly even a semi-regular part of the book, Seeley said they are doing his origin here. So I'm thinking the next time they meet they may be on the same side and it will be made clear via the origin that he has been significantly enhanced, and we won't have to worry about this again.

#11 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5613 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter would obliterate the entire Batfam. Add Batwing and Batman Beyond and its the same thing. Midnighter can be touched, Grifter has tagged him, but keeping him down is an entirely different animal.

#12 Posted by Night4345 (4246 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering Nu52 Midnighter cut off a Red Lantern's arm, tank hits from said RL and nerve strike Martian Manhunter Nightwing is lucky to last 2 seconds let alone survive.

#13 Edited by JediXMan (30630 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoever is complaining about this seriously underestimates Midnighter, who should never be matched up against street levelers.

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#14 Posted by ScouterV (566 posts) - - Show Bio

Well what do you expect?

Midnighter isn't well-known and his powers aren't obvious. Then he comes out of nowhere to beat DCs Crown Prince, (let's face it, that's what DC has positioned him to be.) Of course it's gonna look like an upset to a lot of people, but what can ya do?

#15 Posted by Nerd Of A Hero (882 posts) - - Show Bio

Should Dick have done better?

HA! And to do what exactly? I've seen where N52 Midnighter gave J'onn a nose bleed, cut off a Red Lanterns arm off, fought some vampires along with Apollo and Jack, etc. Midnighter would've just killed him from behind and Dick wouldn't even notice he was there. Midnighter is in a whole different level from Dick. I don't see a reason why DC brought him there just to tackle with him in the first place, like that issue with Nightwing vs Shiva. Also, just because he's a 'parody' of Batman that doesn't mean he should be related to him or his universe in any way. Then again, it's N52 so whateve's.

#16 Posted by Strider92 (16493 posts) - - Show Bio

There isn't a street leveler alive that could beat Midnighter. It's a huge showing from Dick just to be still alive after 2 mins.

This. Midnighter should have outright curbed him off the bat.

@rayegunn said:

I have also seen a few people that seemed to think Dick should have done better, but they are usually the same people who think that Midnighter has no powers. I can see why this misconception comes up, his powers are not flashy or obvious, and he is sorta-kinda based on Batman who does not have powers. But when you explain that Midnighter is well above baseline human in terms of strength, speed, reflexes, durability etc. they seem surprised.

Its because in Wildstorm, Midnighter was stated to have no superhuman stats. Which we know from feats is complete BS. Midnighter is vastly superhuman regardless of what has been stated.

#17 Posted by danhimself (22553 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

Should Dick have done better?

HA! And to do what exactly? I've seen where N52 Midnighter gave J'onn a nose bleed, cut off a Red Lanterns arm off, fought some vampires along with Apollo and Jack, etc. Midnighter would've just killed him from behind and Dick wouldn't even notice he was there. Midnighter is in a whole different level from Dick. I don't see a reason why DC brought him there just to tackle with him in the first place, like that issue with Nightwing vs Shiva. Also, just because he's a 'parody' of Batman that doesn't mean he should be related to him or his universe in any way. Then again, it's N52 so whateve's.

that question was to try and add a little discussion

I was happy with the way the fight went....I would never expect Dick to last more than a few seconds tops against Midnighter....heck if Midnighter wouldn't have been holding back then Dick wouldn't have got a single hit in at all

#18 Posted by Squalleon (4610 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was clear that he was toying with Dick.
The moment he became serious he was Bfr'd

#19 Posted by JwwProd (9481 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Whoever is complaining about this seriously underestimates Midnighter, who should never be matched up against street levelers.

I have to agree with this.

#20 Posted by RayeGunn (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

Should Dick have done better?

HA! And to do what exactly? I've seen where N52 Midnighter gave J'onn a nose bleed, cut off a Red Lanterns arm off, fought some vampires along with Apollo and Jack, etc. Midnighter would've just killed him from behind and Dick wouldn't even notice he was there. Midnighter is in a whole different level from Dick. I don't see a reason why DC brought him there just to tackle with him in the first place, like that issue with Nightwing vs Shiva. Also, just because he's a 'parody' of Batman that doesn't mean he should be related to him or his universe in any way. Then again, it's N52 so whateve's.

Obviously, Midnighter is capable of obliterating Dick, but it's stated in the issue quite clearly that he's toying with him early on, to figure out who Dick is working for and whatnot. Once he found out he was with Spyral, he was about to get serious about the fight, and it got ended by Ninel. I'm ok with that, even if it's convenient. It's Dick's book, they can't have him crippled or worse in the first issue. As for why it was Midnighter and not someone more on Dick's level, I don't think this was a one-time appearance just brought in to fight Dick. I mean, if you read it that way, it does seem really random, but it's just the opening scene of his involvement in the story. Seeley himself has said that Midnighter will be back in issue 2 and beyond, it sounded like he will be featured in a lot of issues, they said they had a reason up their sleeves to 'keep him around' and flat out said they were adapting some ideas from Warren Ellis' Wildstorm work for the series. I have hopes he will have better showings in the future once (I would assume, it would get awfully repetitive for them to keep fighting only for Dick to somehow escape certain death at the hands of Midnighter by some improbable means over and over) they realize they have a common foe and team up. I mean, if you pay attention, some details even line up with Midnighter's Wildstorm origins. He's pretty clearly going to be a bigger part of this book than a one-off guest fight. Whoever is growing these organs may even be Bendix for all we know.

If Seeley and King want to take a stab at fixing Midnighter after the trainwreck that was Stormwatch, I welcome it, he needs fixing. And if it's a choice between this and space owls, will pick this every time. And I don't see how this would connect him much at all to the Bat-family, aside from the fact that afterwards, he will know one of them. He's not with Spyral, and his creation, though the details will be revealed here, happened long before. The connection is tenuous at best.

#21 Posted by DarthAznable (6975 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's dumb he could even contend but it IS his comic.