#1 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

Often in the battle forums of Comicvine, threads discussing battles between abstract beings will throw around terms like "multiversal" and "omniversal"

I will acknowledge that comic books do have characters capable of destroying universes, like

The Living Tribunal

or

However, many are referred to as ruling multiple universes without real data behind that

Now, i should mention that, for the most part, any one comic book universe will contain multiple "plains" or "dimensions", these include heavens, hells, places of fiction, and homes to unspeakable horror, but are still part of the same universe, more or less.

Confirmed, at the very least, for marvel cosmology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe#Dimensions

now, lets start with some characters

The Endless

At the time Sandman was published (1989-1996) DC had already gone through a crisis that subverted and homogenized universal history, and only had one universe in the continuity. in addition to this, regarding the endless, Destruction states:

"The Endless are merely patterns. The Endless are ideas. The Endless are wave functions. The Endless are repeating motifs. The Endless are echoes of darkness, and nothing more...And even our existences are brief and bounded. None of us will last longer than this version of the Universe."

one could argue as to how well Destruction knew this, but he seems to know about the endless more than any other character, and it is more evidence to their presence in a single universe than i have ever heard of them being multiversal.

Lucifer Morningstar

Now, i really don't have anything to say this guy isn't multiversal, but he has essentially no feats, people are afraid of him, but we don't really know why. There is no real material evidence that he is really even more powerful than people like Zeus or Ganthet in an objective sense.

The Vishanti

Now, there is at least one alternate set of Vishanti in marvel, http://marvel.wikia.com/Vishanti_(Earth-791218) which would imply there are other versions in other universes, therefor the trio from 616 is not one who governs every universe, again, shady evidence, but more than you guys have than I've heard of them being multiversal beings

the comparison to the Celestials would imply that they have similar amounts of power.

Shuma Gorath

Shuma Gorath is referenced as ruling thousands of "dimensions", (established as being separate from universes in marvel) and little in the way of "multiversal" power

he did appear as leader of the cancerverse, but seeing as a separate Hulk, Galactus, and Spider-Man appeared in the Cancerverse, it would not be an invcredibly large leap to say that it was also a different Shuma-Gorath

That being said, Shuma was banished by Crom, a Skyfather (and if Robert Howard is to be believed, an indifferent one) and he was able to banish Shuma from the cosmos, implying that Shuma's power, while probably greater than the average sky father, he can still be, at the very least, banished by one on neutral round

That being said, beings like Thundra and Arkon travel between universes, and are rarely said to be more powerful than being like Odiun of 616, who you have never seen enter another universe, so maybe counting universe isn't the same as comparing feats

If i have erred in my analyses, please inform me with some evidence that would refute my claims.

Also, no being can be truly omniversal, as universes are owned by different companies, many of whom hate each other.

#2 Posted by Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper (597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

but seeing as a separate Hulk, Galactus, and Spider-Man appeared in the Cancerverse, it would not be an invcredibly large leap to say that it was also a different Shuma-Gorath

That's because they're are not pocket-dimensional. Hulk, Galactus, and Spiderman are all aborigine to a standard universe which is subject to have numerous versions and variants of itself. Shuma-Gorath, much like Dormammu, Cyttorak, and Chthon, are pocket-dimensional and therefore are not subject to variation as does the mainstream universe or any universe outside their own.

#3 Edited by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

And remember, he made this multiverse of his by facetanking a blast from Michael that was powerful enough to destroy all of a multiverse of the same scale. Luci is the strongest being (when he's not depowered) in DC, behind Belloc and Presence/GEB/God/Yahweh, MAAAYBE fourth behind Spectre if he is granted the full power of Yahweh/God/Presence. A lot of Lucifer detractors talk about times he's been hurt by stuff, but they're almost universally when he's depowered. No one messes with Luci when he's got his wings and someone on the throne of Yahweh.

#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33604 posts) - - Show Bio
@Betatesthighlander1: Morningstar has plenty of feats 
Online
#5 Posted by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

Battles forum area?

#6 Posted by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal said:

Battles forum area?

This subject is relevant to the battle forums. The words Multiversal and Omniversal get thrown around a lot, and it's good to question the validity of things so there's no misrepresentation of feats and hierarchy.

#7 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20308 posts) - - Show Bio

Please refer to the Battle Forum rules, as well as the other Forum Board rules.

- This isn't a battle.

- This belongs in the General Discussion board.

#8 Posted by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Please refer to the Battle Forum rules, as well as the other Forum Board rules.

- This isn't a battle.

- This belongs in the General Discussion board.

There are multiple threads that aren't battles, but pertain to the battle forum as a whole because it calls into question feats, abilities, and terminology of characters used in battles. Don't be a stickler, this is a valid thread, much like the "Challenge a Viner" or "Discuss and Debunk a feat" threads.

#9 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20308 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Please refer to the Battle Forum rules, as well as the other Forum Board rules.

- This isn't a battle.

- This belongs in the General Discussion board.

There are multiple threads that aren't battles, but pertain to the battle forum as a whole because it calls into question feats, abilities, and terminology of characters used in battles. Don't be a stickler, this is a valid thread, much like the "Challenge a Viner" or "Discuss and Debunk a feat" threads.

Unless a moderator decides to sticky it, it doesn't belong in this forum board. Sure, it may regard to aspects of the actual Battle forums, but it isn't a battle itself.

#10 Posted by Dredeuced (5574 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither of the threads I mentioned are stickied and are long running, respected threads on this forum. Come off it.

#11 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper said:

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

but seeing as a separate Hulk, Galactus, and Spider-Man appeared in the Cancerverse, it would not be an invcredibly large leap to say that it was also a different Shuma-Gorath

That's because they're are not pocket-dimensional. Hulk, Galactus, and Spiderman are all aborigine to a standard universe which is subject to have numerous versions and variants of itself. Shuma-Gorath, much like Dormammu, Cyttorak, and Chthon, are pocket-dimensional and therefore are not subject to variation as does the mainstream universe or any universe outside their own.

First of all, that's a bit speculative

second, Dormammu is not subject to variation?

then what are these:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-691)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-938)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-1610)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-70105)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-83840)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Dormammu_(Earth-791218)

Cytorrak doesn't seem to have any variations (he is a minor character, seems unlikeley he'd be in an alternate universe story, but i can't prove that negative)

Chthon is also pretty short, but he is explicitly shown to share an origin with Gaea and Set both of whom are shown to have alternate universe counterparts who are clearly separate beings.

and that's presuming cartoons and the like don't fit into the mainstream multiverse

Cytorrak and Shuma, i will admit, have nothing proving they aren't multiversal, but i see no evidence that they are

#12 Posted by Dernman (15159 posts) - - Show Bio
@Betatesthighlander1: I'm not an expert on these characters but didn't Cytorrack recently have an appearance where he was in his dimension and had windows open to different universes where his hosts live? 
 
I think there is a misconception where if  a being is Multiversal that they are more powerful then a Multiversal being.  In some cases I don't see that to be true.
#13 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Cyotoorrak was destroyed by one infinity gem

and Living tribunal refused to help against the IG because it could only effect one universe

(can't find scans, it was issue 3 during the meeting of Cosmic Beings)