#1 Posted by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman has blocked the omega beams most recently in the new 52 with her bracelets yet Hades used some special guns that were able to penetrate them. Hades guns>omega beams?

#2 Posted by Pokeysteve (8093 posts) - - Show Bio

Hades used them but they weren't his. They were the Pistols of Eros (Cupid). I don't think it was ever explained why they went through but most people agree it was stupid. Even pre-52 the Omega Beams could be blocked by her.

#3 Posted by dondave (34598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightflash:I think the bullets only worked because they were made to be able too effect gods

#4 Posted by logy5000 (5655 posts) - - Show Bio

Anything surviving or blocking the omega effect is crappy writing.

#5 Posted by BlackWind (5602 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Loeb write Wonder Woman blocking the Omega Effect? Yeah, Loeb thinks Superman is a match for Darkseid, anything below Skyfather level should not be deflecting the Omega Effect.

#6 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

All the energy in the universes just bounce off the God Boobs of Wonder Woman. Always capitalize God Boobs as a sign of respect and reverence.

#7 Edited by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightflash said:

Hades guns>omega beams?

They could have just had some special property that managed to bypass them. We're talking magic, after all. What's wrong with Hades being above Darkseid anyway?

@logy5000 said:

Anything surviving or blocking the omega effect is crappy writing.

Uh, why? Darkseid was never supposed to be omnipotent or anything. The way Kirby wrote him, Orion posed a legitimate threat to DS and nearly had him on the ropes at one time. Kirby also had Darkseid state that the Forever People were a threat to him. And it's not like Kirby ever had him take out any cosmic powerhouses like the Spectre or something.

@BlackWind said:

Didn't Loeb write Wonder Woman blocking the Omega Effect? Yeah, Loeb thinks Superman is a match for Darkseid, anything below Skyfather level should not be deflecting the Omega Effect.

Again, why? Darkseid isn't a skyfather. No real reason his Omega Beams should be playing in that league. Also, Wonder Woman once deflected the combined blast of I think 3 skyfathers anyway. Pre-52, her bracelets had taken some really heavy hits and come out fine. No reason to think the Omega Beams would magically succeed where everything else had failed.

#8 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes she can block them

the bracelets can block almost anything and are unbreakable

3 Gods were involved in the making of bracelets, Zeus's Aegis itself an impenetrable shield formed from Amaltheia, his father Cronus splintered the shield that became bracelets, plus Athena had Hephaestus forge remains to prize to be awarded to the best of all Amazons. The bracelets can stop the Omega Effect

Don't complain about the bracelets, the Omega Effect is becoming walmart-cheap, the Omega Effect has been ducked, blocked, reflected, dodged.....many, many times. Some fans now call his attack the jobberseid-Effect

contemporary Darkseid and Nu52 are weaker,

Pre Crisis Darkseid was very powerful

.

#9 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade: Just to point it out, that scan with Firestorm is actually Pre-Crisis Darkseid, not Post-Crisis.

Yes, contrary to popular belief, PC Darkseid actually lost fights, and his Omega Force was neither unbeatable nor infallible.

#10 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

God that last scan always makes me cringe from the stupid.

#11 Posted by entropy_aegis (14463 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade: The scan where Superman's face is able to withstand the beam is out of context,DS was almost powerless there.The second one has Firestorm merely creating a funnel,impressive and I thought it was fairly clever way to deflect the beam without making DS look weak the last one(Apokolips now) is crap writing.I believe Diana should definitely be able to withstand the beam(energy blast) but if he's using the actual effect then no.

#12 Posted by Teerack (5404 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic...

#13 Posted by entropy_aegis (14463 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11: Uh magic isn't exactly much of an excuse,I mean based on Seven Soldiers the NGs have dabbled in magic too and since the Source is a combination of all energy I find the "magic" card plain dumb,Johns did it too when he had Ocean Master KO Superman and Wonder Woman,weak.

#14 Posted by AssertingValor (5382 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

Anything surviving or blocking the omega effect is crappy writing.

#15 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Freefa11: Uh magic isn't exactly much of an excuse,

Well, purely on its own I agree somewhat, but we're talking about a situation involving a high-ranking god from the same pantheon that created the bracelets in the first place, so Hades (or one of his brothers, or Hephaestus) finding a way around them strikes me as more likely than just about any other character (barring really heavy hitters like Spectre). Magic can also find ways around defenses that brute force can't. Sort of like Thor's hammer; no one "unworthy" is going to lift it with strength alone, no matter how strong they are, but a weak person could lift it if their magic is strong enough to interfere with its enchantment. Of course, you'd still pretty much need a skyfather level magic user to pull that off.

I mean based on Seven Soldiers the NGs have dabbled in magic too

Well, probably not enough, and it's not like Darkseid himself has ever been known for using spells or enchantments. I don't think any of the New Gods are actually viewed as particularly mystical or sorcerous, compared to gods like Odin and Loki in Marvel.

and since the Source is a combination of all energy I find the "magic" card plain dumb

What does the Source have to do with anything? Darkseid is not the Source, nor is he comparable to it in any way. If Wonder Woman's bracelets were ever shown to block the full power of the Source itself, yeah, I'd consider that pretty ridiculous, but Darkseid's Omega Effect is certainly nowhere near that level, nor can I remember them ever being remarked as magical or mystical in nature.

Johns did it too when he had Ocean Master KO Superman and Wonder Woman,weak.

Never read that instance, so I can't comment.

#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (14463 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Freefa11: Uh magic isn't exactly much of an excuse,

Well, purely on its own I agree somewhat, but we're talking about a situation involving a high-ranking god from the same pantheon that created the bracelets in the first place, so Hades (or one of his brothers, or Hephaestus) finding a way around them strikes me as more likely than just about any other character (barring really heavy hitters like Spectre). Magic can also find ways around defenses that brute force can't. Sort of like Thor's hammer; no one "unworthy" is going to lift it with strength alone, no matter how strong they are, but a weak person could lift it if their magic is strong enough to interfere with its enchantment. Of course, you'd still pretty much need a skyfather level magic user to pull that off.

I mean based on Seven Soldiers the NGs have dabbled in magic too

Well, probably not enough, and it's not like Darkseid himself has ever been known for using spells or enchantments. I don't think any of the New Gods are actually viewed as particularly mystical or sorcerous, compared to gods like Odin and Loki in Marvel.

and since the Source is a combination of all energy I find the "magic" card plain dumb

What does the Source have to do with anything? Darkseid is not the Source, nor is he comparable to it in any way. If Wonder Woman's bracelets were ever shown to block the full power of the Source itself, yeah, I'd consider that pretty ridiculous, but Darkseid's Omega Effect is certainly nowhere near that level, nor can I remember them ever being remarked as magical or mystical in nature.

Johns did it too when he had Ocean Master KO Superman and Wonder Woman,weak.

Never read that instance, so I can't comment.

But Darkseid has been shown to be able to absorb the power of magical items and users,and as I recall it was the New Gods who created Sprite of Merlin that's heavy magic,as well as other stuff like Excalibur.I mean flipping Desaad possessed Mary Marvel.

I mentioned the Source cause that's where the NGs draw their power from and even Mantis(whose powers were given to him by Darkseid) has no problem manipulating high level mystic energy(Fate).The NGs have always been a mix of cosmic and magical entities.

#17 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

But Darkseid has been shown to be able to absorb the power of magical items and users,

I'm basically talking about the likelihood of a high-level magic being being from the same family that created the enchantment on her bracers being able to create a kind of counter-enchantment to overcome them. You are talking about any kind of generalized magic ability at all. No, I do not think Captain Marvel or Mary Marvel could break WW's bracers either, and they are all about magic. I don't even think Shazam could necessarily do it off the cuff with magic force beams. If he had a bit of time to think about it and devise a special force-beam for that purpose? Maybe that I could buy.

Darkseid doesn't cast spells or use enchantments though. He only ever absorbed power from magic items in GDS, as I recall, which was set 1,000 years in the future and had him perform a lot of other feats he's never been capable of before or since. Maybe GDS Darkseid could have absorbed the magic out of WW's bracelets if he got his hands on them; I'm not sure, but the idea is actually reasonable, but that doesn't mean he could break them with his Omega Beams.

and as I recall it was the New Gods who created Sprite of Merlin that's heavy magic,as well as other stuff like Excalibur.I mean flipping Desaad possessed Mary Marvel.

Do you know when they created this sprite thing? I don't recall reading about that. The closest I recall was a "Merlin" thing YoungGunna used to bring up from Seven Soldiers, which he claimed either served or was created by Darkseid, but when I read the series I saw no direct reference to the New Gods at all. I don't recall the New Gods being credited with creating Excalibur either. I'm not sure about the relevance of possessing Mary Marvel. Possession is not necessarily magical, and just because she's magical doesn't mean it involves some special magical manipulation. That would be like saying Despero had some special powers over magic if he managed to mind control her.

I mentioned the Source cause that's where the NGs draw their power from and even Mantis(whose powers were given to him by Darkseid) has no problem manipulating high level mystic energy(Fate).The NGs have always been a mix of cosmic and magical entities.

Just because the New Gods get their power from the Source doesn't mean they are magical. All their powers manifest differently; that's why Lightray's powers and Darkseid's powers and Fastbak's powers are all completely different. And when you get down to it, pretty much everyone is empowered by the Source in one way or another.

I don't recall Mantis' receiving his powers from Darkseid, but I might just not remember. Regardless, Mantis' powers have no bearing on Darkseid's abilities. Mantis is an energy absorber, very similar to Bishop in the X-Men, but better. Sure, if Dr. Fate shoots him with magic beams, Mantis will absorb them. Same with Green Lantern constructs. Same with normal laser guns. That's his whole schtick. Doesn't mean he has any particular affinity for magic, he is just a generalized energy absorber. Darkseid is not an energy absorber like Mantis.

I really see very little that seems distinctly magical about the New Gods.

#18 Posted by entropy_aegis (14463 posts) - - Show Bio

@Freefa11 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

But Darkseid has been shown to be able to absorb the power of magical items and users,

I'm basically talking about the likelihood of a high-level magic being being from the same family that created the enchantment on her bracers being able to create a kind of counter-enchantment to overcome them. You are talking about any kind of generalized magic ability at all. No, I do not think Captain Marvel or Mary Marvel could break WW's bracers either, and they are all about magic. I don't even think Shazam could necessarily do it off the cuff with magic force beams. If he had a bit of time to think about it and devise a special force-beam for that purpose? Maybe that I could buy.

Darkseid doesn't cast spells or use enchantments though. He only ever absorbed power from magic items in GDS, as I recall, which was set 1,000 years in the future and had him perform a lot of other feats he's never been capable of before or since. Maybe GDS Darkseid could have absorbed the magic out of WW's bracelets if he got his hands on them; I'm not sure, but the idea is actually reasonable, but that doesn't mean he could break them with his Omega Beams.

and as I recall it was the New Gods who created Sprite of Merlin that's heavy magic,as well as other stuff like Excalibur.I mean flipping Desaad possessed Mary Marvel.

Do you know when they created this sprite thing? I don't recall reading about that. The closest I recall was a "Merlin" thing YoungGunna used to bring up from Seven Soldiers, which he claimed either served or was created by Darkseid, but when I read the series I saw no direct reference to the New Gods at all. I don't recall the New Gods being credited with creating Excalibur either. I'm not sure about the relevance of possessing Mary Marvel. Possession is not necessarily magical, and just because she's magical doesn't mean it involves some special magical manipulation. That would be like saying Despero had some special powers over magic if he managed to mind control her.

I mentioned the Source cause that's where the NGs draw their power from and even Mantis(whose powers were given to him by Darkseid) has no problem manipulating high level mystic energy(Fate).The NGs have always been a mix of cosmic and magical entities.

Just because the New Gods get their power from the Source doesn't mean they are magical. All their powers manifest differently; that's why Lightray's powers and Darkseid's powers and Fastbak's powers are all completely different. And when you get down to it, pretty much everyone is empowered by the Source in one way or another.

I don't recall Mantis' receiving his powers from Darkseid, but I might just not remember. Regardless, Mantis' powers have no bearing on Darkseid's abilities. Mantis is an energy absorber, very similar to Bishop in the X-Men, but better. Sure, if Dr. Fate shoots him with magic beams, Mantis will absorb them. Same with Green Lantern constructs. Same with normal laser guns. That's his whole schtick. Doesn't mean he has any particular affinity for magic, he is just a generalized energy absorber. Darkseid is not an energy absorber like Mantis.

I really see very little that seems distinctly magical about the New Gods.

In Seven Soldiers #1 it was clearly stated that the New Gods brought magic with them and gifted it to Aurakles(Excalibur,Merlin,the flying horse who name I keep forgetting,father box which was split apart in to 2 die,a spear of time and a hammer that could split apart atoms)

I have no problem buying WW's bracelets being withstand the concussive force of the beams but on the 2 occasions it did happen we can both agree the instances were badly written.

In the Loeb story the beams were aimed at Superman so by all accounts they should have arced around her,similarly they should have gone right through the "dust"(seriously WTF).

JL is widely regarded as terrible,I thought DS's power levels were ok but by God the writing was atrocious.Darkseid was more like Hulk there.

But I do not see the bracelets blocking this,the finder beam will go right through her bracelets.