Oldest Marvel Race?

In the course of Marvel's publication history, there have been numerous races introduced that held that title as oldest in the universe.

So which one is the true oldest species?

Builders

In the most recent arcs, it has been said that the "Builders" were the first in the universe which then oversaw the evolution of the universe. But let's not forget, there have been previous universes. But it doesn't specify whether or not the Builders were simply the oldest in the current universe or in all of them. It just says "at the dawn of everything" which could have many meanings.

Celestials

So who are the Celestials? These guys are the most powerful race known and surely more powerful than the builders by lightyears. There have been claims that they were the oldest in the universe.

Quote from the comics:

"The Celestials were there at the birth of the universe. So full of pride. So… lonely. They shaped creation. They made life… from the darkness."

But one must not forget that there have been other universes before the current Marvel 616 one. Galactus mentions that they came from a twisted universe and were also mentioned to be the cause of the previous universes' collapse and Galactus' creation.

So they came from a time before the current universe and are indeed most likely older then the Builders.

Proemial Gods

So next on the list are the Proemial Gods. I don't have much information about them, but it was said that they were the oldest organisms in the universe. So how do they correlate to the Builders?

Elders of the Universe

Then there's also the Elders of the Universe, known to be part of the first species in the wake of the big bang.

Conclusion

So I believe the Celestials are indeed the oldest race in existence considering there is clear evidence that they have existed in universes that came before.

But who are the Proemial Gods? Are they older than the Builders? Did the builders exist in previous universes as well or just the current one? It said they they were here "at the dawn of everything."

What do you guys think?

The Beyonders.

Well the Beyonders, from what I understand, are not native to the Marvel Multiverse. They exist in a separate Multiverse which is part of the overlaying Omniverse. That's why I didn't include them.

Batman

Very nice

White people.

ur mum

@-lightbringer-: I was under the impression the celestial are natives from a specific universe, but due to their insane power they are able to travel through the multiverse regardless of where and when.

I might have understood that wrong though, in which case I would be tempted to put my money on the builders. There was a lot of references during that event they were responsible for mankind, the krees and many other sentient species.

But once again same could said for other ancient alien species.

There's a flash back of uatu during original sin showing his race describing themselves as the true first most advanced species, but they eventually decided they should just watch rather than interfere as young species need to make their way on their own.

Odin says he created man and it's kinda canon too, but its conflicting with the new gods origin story as well as with basic evolutionary science that marvel recognizes.

All in all, there's a ton of contenders boasting about being the "first" around...and many claim to be responsible for us.

Honestly I think most popped up around the same time...but ultimately I think the real answer is TOAA.

Whatever his species is and whether he is the only one or not, he is the only known being that predates the current 616 universe and galactus or any of the endless.

Not a "typical" species per say, but its the best I got haha.

Thought it was galan.

Celestials i guess

Is it just me or does the Grandmaster from The Elders of the Universe look exactly like a Guardian of the Universe from the Green Lantern Corp?

Galan was Galactus before he became Galactus in the previous existing universe. He was part of that race, but there have been many pre-existing universes even before his own.

Once he became Galactus, he ascended to become an entity, which isn't considered a "race". By race I mean a numerous individuals of the same species that were born out natural cause.

Chaos sprites

There's also Hunger whose probably even older than Galactus.

That celestials scan is out of context, they're the Mad Celestials from a different universe, not the 616 universe hence Galactus' reference to the "twisted universe that spawned them".

The oldest race in Marvel is, hands down, black people

I believe the Celestials are survivors from a previous universe.

Whatever race Galen (Galactus) was before he survived the destruction of the previous universe and the creation of this one.

the old ones

I have no idea that there were Builders & Proemial Gods too.

It was stated (or implied) that Anitphon the Overseer is the archetype for the Watchers though idk if that means a blood relation. The Proemial Gods were born in the universe with/after Galactus and the Chaos Sprites. I also wonder about the entity Nemesis that later split itself into the Infinity Gems according to Mephisto, however since Infinity Gems are unique and powerful only in their home dimension (retcon) it is hard to say if, as the wiki states, Nemesis pre-existed Earth 616 universe. But he/she/it isnt a species so I would say Builders > Proemial Gods > Chaos Sprites > The Watchers > The Elders of the Universe > Elder Gods (much later after Earth 616 formed).

The Watchers were an advanced civilization before Galactus emerged from his incubation. The Celestial evolved into what they are now and I'm guessing that took some time.

Where do you get that ??

@thor_parker82:

Galactus' own origin story. Ecce was the first to discover Galactus and had the chance to destroy him before he reached his full might, but did not do so because of his oath. Since the oath was already in place, and the Watchers made the oath because they gave advanced technology to a lesser race, it only makes sense that they were quite advanced before then.

@mysticmedivh: @jloneblackheart: Cool, thanks.

Which issue does that take place ??

@thor_parker82:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/super-villain-classics-1-galactus-the-origin/4000-159279/

@thor_parker82:

Btw, Jlone is one of the most knowledgeable people on these characters. If you ever want to know about anything about Surfer/Galactus and related characters, he's your man.

I appreciate the kind words.

It's also been retold a few times as well. Just look at every appearance of Ecce.

@jloneblackheart: So, does "Fantastic Four #522" retcons the origin of Galactus or is it just a retelling ?? What about the "Ultimates #1-3" which also features Galactus´ origin ?? Has anything changed or has his origin remained the same throughout his publications ??

Annoying Fanboys =]

@thor_parker82: I'm not aware of any retcons. I double check those when I get off work. I know I have the FF issue and I'm pretty sure I have the Ultimates ones too. I just haven't read either Ultimates volume yet, they're collecting dust currently.

@thor_parker82: Galactus' original origin was told in Thor 168. Its been reprinted a few times since then. The scans posted above are from that issue of Thor.

Nice, thanks.

Galactus´ origin is everywhere lol

@mysticmedivh

Indeed. It was first told in Thor #168-169 but slightly altered (using all the same art but some new stuff too) for Super-Villain Classics to include the Sentience of the Universe and giving a name to the Watcher as Ecce. Also it changed from the ship crashing to Ecce bringing it down himself out of curiosity. So he broke his oath to bring it down, but didn't break it to kill Galactus.

So, Fantastic Four #522 and The Ultimates #1-2 do not contradict the original at all, they are just abridged versions. After Ecce brought down the ship, he examined the crew and discovered that one was alive-ish. He awakened while Ecce was studying him. He was pure energy and Ecce knew what he would become but did nothing because of his oath. So Galactus jettisoned his crew, turned his ship into an incubator and made his kick ass armor to contain himself. He remained in orbit for millennia until intergalactic war broke his incubator and he consumed his first world Archeopia (consequently the survivors became the Wanderers).

The Ultimates obviously expanded on this by revealing the incubator was still intact and used it to turn Galactus into the Life-Bringer.

The full origin story can be found almost identically in the following books: Super Villain Classics #1, Marvel Saga #24 & The Origin of Galactus. Also, if you are a collector like me, I just saved you the trouble of getting all three for the same story, lol.

@jloneblackheart: What do you think about the Fantastic Four issue mentioned above and the next one (#522-523) where Reed takes away the energy that makes Galactus, well, Galactus and turns him into Galen once again.

The story was entertaining but I personally don´t like when writers try to humanize the cosmic entities, I just don´t think it´s right for Galactus to be walking around eating hot dogs with The Thing or going to see people skating (which he did in those issues) and ultimately imprisoning imself on another dimension because he didn´t want to become the "Devourer of Worlds" again.

@thor_parker82: I'm with you. It was lame.

@jloneblackheart: Lame indeed