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#1 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't figured out what I want to say quite yet. Other than I was really freaking surprised that there was NO ONE already talking about this, so, here's a thread.

Justice League of America 4 spoiler alert:

They executed Catwoman. Point blank. Bloody, gratuitous, multiple angles, in one side and out the other, headshot. No words from her either, except that her death is going to motivate Batman.

No, I'm not an idiot: between her solo not being cancelled and her having been featured in advertising for Trinity War, there's probably more to it, but that begs the questions Why show such a graphic, indisputable kill if it's not going to be a real kill? and Can we still get pissed off about fridging if it isn't permanent?

No matter what the real story is with Selina Kyle's blood-drained cranium, the fact remains that this is the thing that starts DC's biggest event of the year: killing a woman to make a male hero angry and drive him to action.

#2 Posted by SC (13349 posts) - - Show Bio

I am pretty sure the New 52 version of Catwoman is actually Mister Mxyzptlk, it would explain a lot. Yeah nah I need to catch up on DC.

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#3 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

When resurrecting Catwoman, don't forget to bring back Damian too.

#4 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yay -__-

Saddest thing about all this? I'm actually a little happy? Means they can't further wreck the character.

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#5 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercy_: Well except for the fact that the JLA version was somewhat passable and Nocenti's hasn't been announced as being cancelled >_>

#6 Edited by ccraft (5560 posts) - - Show Bio

If Catwoman can be brought back to life, Batman will find out and he'll want to bring Damian back from the dead. Yay now there's hope that Damian will return. Maybe that's what the Batman & Catwoman issue is about, how Catwoman survived a bullet to the head.

#7 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

best thing to happen to the character since the reboot. sad isnt it?

#8 Posted by Alak (928 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, so not only did DC kill off Batman's son, but they also killed off his booty call? The world is doomed...

#9 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said, the seeming impossibility of her actually being dead makes this more shocking in a way. They didn't just kill Catwoman. They killed her in a shocking, surprisingly violent, voyeuristic way.

#10 Posted by ARMIV2 (8845 posts) - - Show Bio

Catwoman dying...then coming back to life...

Ugh, I keep getting flashes of the movie...

#11 Edited by ShadowX (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

This freaking blows...

Edit: sorry for the curse

#12 Edited by ragdollpurps (15724 posts) - - Show Bio

Hah! Alright, DC.

I see how it is.

#13 Edited by Saren (25070 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be upset if I didn't know there's virtually no way she's going to actually be dead.

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#14 Posted by ssejllenrad (12790 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm more upset knowing that she'll be inevitably revived and we'll have another meaningless comicbook death.

#15 Posted by ragdollpurps (15724 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be upset if I didn't know there's virtually no way she's going to actually be dead.

You should still be upset because her faux-execution only happened to fuel Bruce's man-tears.

#16 Posted by Saren (25070 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

I'd be upset if I didn't know there's virtually no way she's going to actually be dead.

You should still be upset because her faux-execution only happened to fuel Bruce's man-tears.

True :/

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#17 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

I'd be upset if I didn't know there's virtually no way she's going to actually be dead.

You should still be upset because her faux-execution only happened to fuel Bruce's man-tears.

Right when I thought we were finally starting to get over all that bs.

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#18 Posted by TDK_1997 (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that's probably one of the best things that has happened to her since the reboot.

#19 Posted by dondave (38891 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercy_:Couldn't Catwoman be resurrected due to the cats licking her thing as shown in the 0 issue?

#20 Posted by Saren (25070 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@mercy_:Couldn't Catwoman be resurrected due to the cats licking her thing as shown in the 0 issue?

Oh, God, I was just starting to forget that they gave her the Pfeiffer origin.

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#21 Edited by Billy Batson (58311 posts) - - Show Bio

There's been some speculation that it's not Selina on other boards.

But hopefully this is an indication of Catwoman getting a new writer. Someone like Kindt would be nice ^_^

BB

#22 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6533 posts) - - Show Bio

So her solo series is still going, and she's involved in Trinity War.

I'm struggling to see what the point of this death is if she's just being brought back immediately.

#23 Posted by Saren (25070 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone like Kindt would be nice ^_^

For Catwoman? Seems like an odd fit.

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#24 Posted by Billy Batson (58311 posts) - - Show Bio

@billy_batson said:

Someone like Kindt would be nice ^_^

For Catwoman? Seems like an odd fit.

He came into my mind out of DC's current writers. He's done some grounded work like Super Spy, Revolver, Red Handed and others.

BB

#25 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, so are people annoyed that she was killed because she's obviously gonna return....because her death was gratuitous and graphic.....or because it's another case of WiR syndrome?

Or all three?

#26 Posted by Saren (25070 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@billy_batson said:

Someone like Kindt would be nice ^_^

For Catwoman? Seems like an odd fit.

He came into my mind out of DC's current writers. He's done some grounded work like Super Spy, Revolver, Red Handed and others.

BB

Ah. I've only read Mind MGMT from Kindt. I think Layman would be a good fit, maybe he can write a third title alongside 'Tec and Chew.

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#27 Posted by TDK_1997 (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone like Kindt would be nice ^_^

BB

That would be great but I can't see it happening.

#28 Posted by Billy Batson (58311 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Edited by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio
this?

#30 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Wait, so are people annoyed that she was killed because she's obviously gonna return....because her death was gratuitous and graphic.....or because it's another case of WiR syndrome?

Or all three?

I think people here are upset for a variety of reasons, but for me it's mostly the last two. As for the first, considering I have just started investing in older Catwoman stories, she's quickly becoming one of my favorite DC characters, so I personally have zero desire to see her actually die (and thus wouldn't complain about her coming back). Her actually being dead would merely exacerbate the third reason -- how blatantly fridged she is right now.

#31 Posted by The Stegman (25986 posts) - - Show Bio

I've seen worse in comics. Ultimate Blob eating Wasp comes to mind. And a certain girl in a certain refrigerator.

#32 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

It was so random and so over the top I'm convinced it's a bait-and-switch or an insta-rez. If it's "for realz", well, it isn't the worst thing they've done to her character since the reboot.

#33 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I've seen worse in comics. Ultimate Blob eating Wasp comes to mind...

In other words I can just blame David Finch?

#34 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13625 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@mercy_:Couldn't Catwoman be resurrected due to the cats licking her thing as shown in the 0 issue?

.........does it have to be cats specifically..

Online
#35 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34978 posts) - - Show Bio

Bad pepole kill pepole, that's what they do

#36 Posted by Bogey (970 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though she got shot in the head I bet the writers will play it off as she just used one of her nine lives as part of some metahuman power.

#37 Posted by BR_Havoc (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes I just do not understand what happened to John's. He used to be the best DC had but now he seems to be relying on shock tactics and gimmicky romances to get his books to fly of the stands. Catwoman's "death" was used for shock and shock only. I could see Waller bringing her back with that serum she has or dc gives her the movie background were she has 9 lives (Its sad but I know that is what its going to be). I fail to understand this build up to Trinity War its been a long road that has been uneventful there has not been a build in tension its just kind of happened. Something big better happen in Trinity War because if there is no big fallout then DC has wasted 2 years on a story that is borrowing heavily from Marvel.

#38 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc: Is it? I actually considered the tying of all the publisher's big labels into a single new continuity was rather unique, but I'm new so maybe it has been done before?

#39 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think people are mad because she died. It's the manner and reasoning of her death. Death of a female character, in a visibly grotesque manner, to insight how crude and evil a villain is to progress a story plot -_- C'mon son.

Regardless if it "sticks" or not, the fact that violence against a woman was used as a plot device to ensure shock value is disgusting and was completely unnecessary.

#40 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@bogey said:

Even though she got shot in the head I bet the writers will play it off as she just used one of her nine lives as part of some metahuman power.

Wait is that really one of her metahuman abilities?

#41 Posted by Ultra_beleco (184 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still without words.

I know her ongoing sucks now, But catwoman is one of my favorite comic book characters and one of the reasons I started reading comics almost 2 decades ago in the first place. I hope they ressurect her somehow. =(

#42 Posted by BR_Havoc (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Well the idea of the big time heroes that one side is government controlled and the other is not is straight out of Marvel's Civil War. This story borrows very heavily from that story or at least the build up to Trinity War has I hope that the event will be something new and have an interesting fall out personally I want Pandora's box to be opened and reality to change again (Maybe because I really am not feeling his one lol)

#43 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc: Well I think having three sides rather than two definitely changes that...also, while one side in Civil War fought on the government's side, would you really say they were fighting for the government (in the same way the JLA was pretty much blackmailed into participating)?

Anyhow I agree, I want to see the event have some reasonable impact. It is possible that that impact will be for the worse, however, which is why I've speculated that this event has the potential to either make or break the New 52.

#44 Edited by Kalel121 (21 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Edited by BR_Havoc (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: Actually yes I do many of the heroes that fought for Iron Man's side were more or less black mailed into it. Any hero with a family he made it clear that if you do not sign up your against us and they will ether force you to conform or will be imprisoned.

If Trinity War is a flop the new 52 is dead its that simple. DC is losing the market place battle and there are cracks in the foundation of the higher ups that is obvious to see. So if Trinity War comes in screw the world up worse then IMO its only a matter of time before they do a Flashpoint 2.0

#46 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6460 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was needed. Her character was failing.

#47 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalel121 said:

Relax guys and girls this isn't quite the big deal Johns made it out to be. Check out this link which has some theories on what the deal with 'Catwoman's' death is as well as an official quote by Lemire saying that the death that starts the Trinity War happens at the start of Justice League 22.

http://www.newsarama.com/17947-jla-4-s-shocking-cliffhanger-what-does-it-mean-spoilers.html

Thanks for the Lemire quote. That's definitely pertinent.

Like I said in my OP, however, my anger has little to do with actually thinking Catwoman is dead; it's entirely to do with the WiR trope -- killing a female character (in a gratuitous way) to motivate a male character into action. And doing so in a way which strips her of any agency -- Selina didn't even get so much as a witty rejoinder in. She was physically and verbally restrained, and then dead.

@br_havoc: Alright. It's been many years since I read Civil War stuff and I honestly don't remember the politics of the situation (I was not, and continued not to be, a real comic reader at the time). I see Trinity War as a chance to fix what hasn't worked in the New 52 while conveniently keeping what has worked. High potential, but like you said: if it's a flop, then DC just wasted a few years and a ton of money.

#48 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio

Its not that gratuitous, just plain stale and average

now spoiler had an erotic death where she was tortured by black mask

that was hot

this was meh

#49 Posted by blkson (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalel121: I don't particularly care that she died. Death in comics is nothing new. It's manner and reasoning. Again, regardless if it "sticks" or not the fact that violence against a woman was used as a plot device to ensure shock value is lame. They wanted us to see this woman vehemently killed to entice an emotional reaction. Also it was done to draw out Batman.

I think it's obvious that her "death" will not stick and there is some soap opera rationalization that will show that her death was no big deal.

I read that article already BTW and it does suggests some pretty cool twists to how this all will play out.

#50 Posted by danhimself (22713 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think she's dead....DC and Marvel both spoil the sh!t out of deaths way before they happen...they didn't say a thing about this so I'm guessing she's still alive...plus her ongoing is still...well...ongoing...despite how terrible it is