So i keep thinking of people who are upset about comics not having enough diversity and or mad that they feel some characters(black) are often stereotyped or written poorly and i think well at least you have black superheroes, what about the Native Americans?
I mean we hardly ever see them and i can only think of one comic title where a Native American was the star in the last 3 decades. Where are our Peak Human Captain America equivalent, I mean you got Black Panther who is Cap's African counterpart what about a legitimate actual Indigenous American?
Where is our Native American equivalent of Superman and Thor, i mean they even have a Black Superman aka Icon and why do all our native brothers have to be wearing loin clothes when Thor is wearing tights who should be wearing a skirt and fur.
If anyone should be upset about lack of diversity it should be Natives the fact that the world is full of mythology and one of the most diverse myths come directly from the Americas where the myth legends could give Captain America, Wolverine, Superman, Silver surfer, Thor and Odin a run for their money in story diversity and the power department.
I mean one of the my favorite Native story/religious character is Quetzalcoatl who is a creator god and man-god savior ala Thor and Superman yet he is constantly depicted as a giant serpent one of his totem animals and ignore his humanoid form and is completely written wrong as an antagonist when he is suppose to be a savior for humanity.
Marvel has him written as a dark red man with no beard and a cotton loin cloth yet he is suppose to be a white tan man with blue eyes, blonde hair and beard and handsome showing his connection to the sun and the sky, (weather) wind, (spiritual connection) earth, man and animal god.
also why is it that when Mexicans are shown in comics they are simply shown stereotypical pueblo ppl and outdated clothing when Mexico City and the various other cities are on par to places like New York and not all Mexicans sport mustaches funny hats and dark skin since it is simply a nationality not a race hence their are white, brown, black Mexicans the majority carrying Native blood as well as White. European Blood is in 60% of the Population which is what makes them Mestizo. Most ppl dont know this but Mexican populace has a strong influx of, Spanish, French, Irish blood in their populace and only 40% are pure Native Blood from Aztec/Maya/ tribal nations who's blood from the Yaqui, Navajo, Apache, Hopi, Comanche and various tribes from what was once Mexico from California, Arizona and whatnot.
So if anyone should be griping about not getting a fair shake in comic representation it is the Natives of the Land who are stereotyped and rarely depicted and when they are it is woefully wrong in history and even appearance .
Just want to say that Quetzalcoatl would have bn perfect for Jack Kirby and his ancient alien astronaut theory connection and mix of magic and tech since Quetzalcoatl and the various gods had Gold armor that could have easily bn transformed into tech New World armor with cool sounding names coming right out of Myth and Native religion.
comments positive and negative feed back is welcome.
You're right there aren't many decent native american characters and the few that exist are usually placed in the background and it annoys me, Why can't Warpath get a solo series even a mini would be good, why can't the original Thunderbird get a real resurrection damn near every other xman has died atleast twice, even if they don't focus on these guys and made new characters they defiantly need some more native american characters and not some stereotypical caricature
" I agree. My favorite fictional Native American is Spirit
He is fu#king awsome! "
he looks cool, is he a GI joe character?
also want to let ppl know that John Rambo is suppose to be half Native(Navajo).
Wolverine back in the 70's-80's and even 90's i firmly believed he was part native due to his abilities and flashback stories and dark sun baked skin and growing around natives even if he wasnt he was an honorary Native brother. but, you know the retcon expansion of his origin took all that away from Logan, i think the creator and writers were trying to build something close to my theory and view of the time.
i havent read anything with the new black condor Trijillo who is a Mexican Indian Navajo or Apache but he looked bad@$$ to me the way he was drawn.
I started this rant cause i was watching young guns with Jose Chavez speech about the history of his tribe and the massacre.
I just want marvel to write Quetzalcoatl at the very least on par to superman, Thor or Silver Surfer.. i mean he is a Creator god, Skyfather in actual legend/myth/religion and at the very least not write him as a giant serpent snake all the time who wants to devour humans since he was basically a Jesus Christ Savior figure who didnt believe in sacrifice and had fought his brother and would return to protect his children(humanity) in their time of need.
It's like drawing Buddha as a giant cobra who wants to strangle you..
I'm not sure if Eric Draven, The Crow was meant to be native but i know his story and origin of his power was native mysticism.
he was cool till they wrote him crazy for no reason kinda how they did Bishop.
also wanna say that just cause you're native doesnt mean you have to be dark skin, long hair or know about your history. just like you write a black american without a connection to africa in their speech and clothing is how they should draw natives as just another person who happens to descent from a particular race but still be a part of the era around him and not be stuck in his own time warp ala the brady bunch.
i mean if i have a choice of wearing a bullet proof vest or a wooden indian stick vest to fight crime, i'm gonna go with the one that actually stops bullets.
I'm sure it wasnt because she was native? *shifty eyes*
hell, i dont mind if they mix myths so long as they give it more spot light on the myths of the americas. I could see the Thunderbird myth mixed with Quetzalcoatl due to similarity and it wouldnt offend me as i dont think it offends ppl when The Eternal were confused with the Olympians and their stories interwoven.
my uncle big stereotype Mexican with handle bar mustache and biker appearance with the barrel chest use to love T. Bird on street fighter as he thought it represented him. i am sure he would have love warpath and thunderbird as well if he knew them to the similarities to T. hawk and himself a blend of the old school native tradition and modern appearance * eyeroll*
" I agree. My favorite fictional Native American is Spirit
He is fu#king awsome! "
he looks cool, is he a GI joe character?
also want to let ppl know that John Rambo is suppose to be half Native(Navajo).
Wolverine back in the 70's-80's and even 90's i firmly believed he was part native due to his abilities and flashback stories and dark sun baked skin and growing around natives even if he wasnt he was an honorary Native brother. but, you know the retcon expansion of his origin took all that away from Logan, i think the creator and writers were trying to build something close to my theory and view of the time.
i havent read anything with the new black condor Trijillo who is a Mexican Indian Navajo or Apache but he looked bad@$$ to me the way he was drawn.
I started this rant cause i was watching young guns with Jose Chavez speech about the history of his tribe and the massacre.
@PowerHerc: I love Talisman. Where the heck is she, now that there isn't a Sorcerer Supreme she should be the most powerful mystic on Marvel Earth. But do we ever see her? No.
Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada.
I think there should be more Native American heroes who just happen to be native it isn't their whole reason for being like Shaman or Proudstar. I know several people who are blond haired and blue-eyed but are Native. Kinda like how Monet St. Croix revently revealed she's Muslim, or there was a comic a few years ago that had Ben Grimm pointing out that he's Jewish.
it's a conspiracy perpetrated by the white man......... Think about it.. *finger on temple*
Mexican people
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by the way i sometimes cant tell the difference between italian, spaniards, mexicans or natives so that should tell you about the diversity of a nation.
@castleking: Maybe Native American's should use some of the profits from their casinos to start their own comic publishing company and create their own characters instead of expecting the white man to do it. :P
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
you can use that exact argument for just about any race from white, black, brown, Asians. it doesnt mean they are not a large majority in any one place.
I live in Nevada and there is a large Native American population of Shoshone and Washoe Natives and a reservation as well. When i lived in California Los Angeles during Cingo the Mayo dances you would see the various Natives come out and not just Aztec dancers who would be part of the pow wow.
in my Nevada down we only had 3 black ppl in my school compared to the white, brown and native and maybe a handful of asians, some had never seen a black man till high school
@Lunacy
said:
" @castleking: Maybe Native American's should use some of the profits from their casinos to start their own comic publishing company and create their own characters instead of expecting the white man to do it. :P "
that's what i'm thinking but the profits are equally shared among the tribes and their reservation.. it's like asking the american government and citizens to fund and build a comic company using their taxes.
i was already thinking of a milestone Native American company.. what would be a cool sounding name, how about some ideas?
@PrinceIMC
said:
" I think there should be more Native American heroes who just happen to be native it isn't their whole reason for being like Shaman or Proudstar. I know several people who are blond haired and blue-eyed but are Native. Kinda like how Monet St. Croix revently revealed she's Muslim, or there was a comic a few years ago that had Ben Grimm pointing out that he's Jewish. "
that is what i said earlier about just having them say oh by the way i'm a Native from canada, north or south and shoulder shrug and not put him in a stereotype clothing, hair or speech. like the pic above we come in various varieties in shade of hair and skin and eye color.. i'm slightly pale tan ppl wouldnt even shrug a shoulder nor look at me twice but i turn full indian red when in the hot middle east desert that i look straight Native or a Mexican who just cross the boarder on foot.. my brother is white looks dresses like any other person and only gets a mild white man tan and would still be called white.
than my cousin has hazel green eyes and dirty blond hair and also looks white but talks with a spanish accent due to growing up in Vegas with his Mexican friends and speaks spanish better than most people i know.
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
you can use that exact argument for just about any race from white, black, brown, Asians. it doesnt mean they are not a large majority in any one place. in live in Nevada and there is a large Native American population of Shoshone and Washoe Natives and a reservation as well. When i lived in California Los Angeles during Cingo the Mayo dances you would see the various Natives come out and not just Aztec dancers who would be part of the pow wow. in my Nevada down we only had 3 black ppl in my school compared to the white, brown and native and maybe a handful of asians, some had never seen a black man till high school "
You're right and I do. It applies even more so to natives because they make up an extremely small percentage of the United States population as a whole.There are places in the U.S where a large percentage of the population is one race and it's not caucasian but as a whole they don't dominate the population in that entire state.There are very few asians where I am from..in my town I mean.I know of like 1 asian family..but although that doesn't represent the asian population for my whole state; It's low in general in comparison to black and white.
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
So there should be less alien superheroes because they aren't around?
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
-__- "
What's the problem with what I said? Are we going to sit here and pretend Natives make up a big percentage of the American population? Because it's not.Why would you expect them to have alot of superhero representation when they make up such as small percentage of the population?
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
-__- "
What's the problem with what I said? Are we going to sit here and pretend Natives make up a big percentage of the American population? Because it's not.Why would you expect them to have alot of superhero representation when they make up such as small percentage of the population? "
When did anyone say "A lot"? I think there should be more than what there is. Not enough to rival black and white heroes but more.
His name is Digger and he throws Boomerangs. Australians have it bad too. Pretty much everyone who is White North American or Western (in terms of culture) European is stereotyped.
I don't think it's a question of quanity, I was surprised by the amount of characters when I found this list: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/ryonslaught/native-americans/75-13232/
The trouble is how often these characters are used, that none of them are highly relevant, and that they are often gimmick characters. Yet at the same time if you make a character who is incidentally native of blood with nothing else, what's the point from the literary point of view? I think comics are all about mythology and having a hero who uses aspects of native mythologies if done right could be a real classic, just needs a writer knowledgeable enough and not afraid to use it.
" Why would there be MORE Native American superheroes when there are barely any actual Native Americans? I didn't meet and actual Native until I was 20 years old and it was in Canada. "
So there should be less alien superheroes because they aren't around? "
No, Natives are an actual group of people.Being one yourself you know that.All comic book alien races are made up.They are just an cheap way to give someone powers without an explanation.
by the way a lot of political correct ppl consider this racist but i really dont and i like it.
@ Rightscar
the population charts are actually very skewed due to what one consider themselves and has less to do with genetics but appearance and known family history.
The census Bureau actually tries to or actually did define what is considered Natives and not the Natives themselves. The Nican Tlaca movement actually takes all the american Natives of the americas as indigenous ppl using genetics which places the Natives well above the blacks and any other race including whites. to give you an example during the indian wars many natives moved south and to canada to escape the Calvary and were even herded to the boarders by american calvary these tribes merged with one another including whites and the south natives in Mexico it is even harder to tell between tribes b/c we were already native some with french, spanish, irish blood in the pueblos and whatnot but we still mixed with one another still making us native.
think of George Lopez a mexican but he is 40% Cochise descendant making him Apache yet he did not know that b/c at the end there is not much to differentiate than it would be for a french, german or english person to differentiate between what is considered white in those three races
. yet the american consensus still choices to make the difference for us calling one across one boarder Native and the other Mexican or Meso as if there is a difference which there is not.
going by actual Genetics we are still alive and plentiful, this man says it better than me:
" I don't think it's a question of quanity, I was surprised by the amount of characters when I found this list: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/ryonslaught/native-americans/75-13232/ The trouble is how often these characters are used, that none of them are highly relevant, and that they are often gimmick characters. Yet at the same time if you make a character who is incidentally native of blood with nothing else, what's the point from the literary point of view? I think comics are all about mythology and having a hero who uses aspects of native mythologies if done right could be a real classic, just needs a writer knowledgeable enough and not afraid to use it. "
I agree with this 100%.There isn't a lack of diversity.There is a lack of minority characters that actually matter and or are used to their full potential.There are plenty of native characters but how many of them are actually well known or have done anything significant in the Marvel U, DCU or whatever else?
Thing is, who is going to write these characters? I believe this is the biggest setback in this area. You write what you know. That is why Stan Lee's characters tended to live in New York. Outside of a few parts of this country, you do not see any natives and just know the stereotypes. Thankfully, most creators today are not going to knowingly indulge in writing those kind of characters. So, the next option is education. The problem again becomes, who? Most I know are too busy living and the leadership is in crisis mode with the rates of chemical dependency and crime.
i was offended when DC had WonderWoman punch out a skyfather Quetzalcoatl that was enraged and not acting in his savior peace mode like jesus, Buddha or at the very least superman or Thor.. It's the equivalent of turning Jesus into the devil
When did anyone say "A lot"? I think there should be more than what there is. Not enough to rival black and white heroes but more. "
My point was that there is that the isn't a that many native people in comparison to other races thus the reasoning for the small amount of them.Not to mention they are just as small of a percentage of any comic publishers readership and they are going to appeal to what percentage is going to buy the most books.
" i was offended when DC had WonderWoman punch out a skyfather Quetzalcoatl that was enraged and not acting in his savior peace mode like jesus, Buddha or at the very least superman or Thor.. It's the equivalent of turning Jesus into the devil
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"
Do you worship Quetzacoatl? Is he the god of your religion? Are you surprised that DC like Marvel and every other publisher that uses gods changes whatever about their persona, powers, etc. they want?
" i was offended when DC had WonderWoman punch out a skyfather Quetzalcoatl that was enraged and not acting in his savior peace mode like jesus, Buddha or at the very least superman or Thor.. It's the equivalent of turning Jesus into the devil
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"
Do you worship Quetzacoatl? Is he the god of your religion? Are you surprised that DC like Marvel and every other publisher that uses gods changes whatever about their persona, powers, etc. they want? "
I'm sure you ask the question rhetorically and sarcastically but, yes. he is my god, the god of my people and those of this land and i dont worship him anymore than i do Buddha. (i study and practice Buddhism) I dont mind him being depicted but at the very least show him close to his roots like they have done with Hercules and Thor as protectors of man and a hero savior.
to any who might want to watch this i find this dance awesome.
Like some mention if writers knew about American History they could draw in some bad as Myth based heroes whose stories would blow away what's been written before mix of fantasy, science and magic which guys like Thor are sometimes known for.
I agree 100% with you, and this goes for all minorities. Comics, just like the rest of American entertainment/culture, are almost completely white-washed. NA's are about 0.8% of the population right now and estimates say that by 2025 they'll grow to 1.1%. Hopefully as time goes on more Native American people will go into comics, and everything else too, and create NA heroes and such.
@castleking: There are entire pantheons of Non-White Deities at Marvel/DC. Egyptian, Mayan, African, Asian etc.. The Milestone line gave us Many Minority heroes. Turok was published in every decade since the 1950's, and is my all time favorite Native American Hero.
" i was offended when DC had WonderWoman punch out a skyfather Quetzalcoatl that was enraged and not acting in his savior peace mode like jesus, Buddha or at the very least superman or Thor.. It's the equivalent of turning Jesus into the devil
Gallery
"
Do you worship Quetzacoatl? Is he the god of your religion? Are you surprised that DC like Marvel and every other publisher that uses gods changes whatever about their persona, powers, etc. they want? "
I'm sure you ask the question rhetorically but, yes. he is my god, the god of my people and those of this land and i dont worship him anymore than i do Buddha. (i study and practice Buddhism) I dont mind him being depicted but at the very least show him close to his roots like they have done with Hercules and Thor as protectors of man and hero.
I know nothing about Native American religion, and I'm not sure if Quetzacoatl actually looks anything like that, but I would be super ticked too if my God was portrayed like that. Though he sort of already has been, **** you Garth Ennis.
@Prince CortSether: well technically its a nation founded by the white people who murdered millions of natives and are actually the reason that they are a minority in the first place
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