Naruto vs DBZ Petition

Please Read!

Everyone knows that DBZ vs NonDBZ character battles are forbidden, and for good reason too. The flame wars that transpired between DBZ, Superman, Thor, and Wonder Woman fans were stuff of legend, but I feel as if that was in the past. Before the flame wars began there were actually interesting debates going on for each side of the discussion that made for many interesting battles and discussions. The problem wasn't DBZ itself, but rather the maturity of both sides of the discussion. Of course there are fans who don't want to see Goku loose and may overstate his abilities and capabilities to a small or sometimes large degree, but the same can be said about a host of other very popular characters. Superman, Flash, and Hulk (guilty as charged) all have passionate fans that love to believe that they can't be beaten as well. So my question is: Should DBZ have taken all of the blame?

Another arising problem is the lack of new or interesting battles left to choose from. With so many different existing battles, its hard to come up with something new or original anymore. This is the reason why so many Naruto battles have been popping up as of late. The Naruto characters are finally catching up in power to some of the more popular comic characters and they present the opportunities for new fresh battles to be created. Now some of them (Naruto vs Superman) are still very premature and probably will never be a true debate with the Naruto series ending soon, but that's what will happen with the most popular manga/anime at the moment. This is why I thought that Naruto vs DBZ threads might be a good idea to revisit. The most popular manga/anime at the moment versus the most popular manga/anime of all time. Now obviously after a certain period in time, DBZ characters grossly outmatch Naruto characters (SSJ anybody would probably solo the verse), but a few battles might actually be interesting to debate. Take this thread for example: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/team-7-vs-krillin-1612825/#40. There was actually a good debate being held. No flame wars, no heated discussions, just open debate. I think there are many other battles that can be made that would be interesting to debate, for example:

• Saiyan Saga Napa vs Third Raikage
• Dragonball King Piccolo vs Madara
• etc...

So here is my proposition to the moderators. For one week, Dragonball and Saiyan Saga DBZ characters versus Naruto characters be allowed. If flame wars ensue, then the ban is rightfully in place and should continue functioning as is. But if the threads produce good results then I think the ban on DBZ should at the very least be reconsidered. This is my request. Hear my cry.

Moderatators:

@jedixman@saren@god_spawn@bumpyboo

People Who May be Interested:

What do you think?

DBZ should be allowed back period.

Um sure, give'em a chance

Meh.

@comicuser said:

DBZ has so much potential for flames Smokey the Bear makes public service announcements for it.

@hulkage:

i'm giving a possitive vote.. i'm always up for an open debate involving dbz characters.

Well you made a couple of good points, but one person isn't going to change a thing. You might start something, sure but until you have some backing from a couple of people on ComicVine then your voice won't be heard. So don't expect a good response from mods or others on ComicVine.

But like I said, you made some good points.

I'm all for it.

nah

I agree. I looked at that Team 7 vs Krillin battle and it was actually pretty good. Don't know how petitions work on the Vine, but I'm for bringing DBZ back, at least for that one week "probation," so to speak.

Sure I am all for DBZ vs Naruto but do not let it back to be in whatever battles. Keep DBZ away from comic characters.

"Should DBZ have taken all of the blame?"

Absolutely not. I have seen Dragon Ball threads made on this site that had nothing to do with anything else but Dragon Ball and then some users come in and start bringing up a bunch of non Dragon Ball characters and how they would stomp the DB character(s) in question, for seemingly no reason, other than to troll for a response. DB fans were not the only ones at fault.

Anyway yeah I am all for it.

@blade_r: This so much.

@justsomerandomkid:

Isn't that kind of the point of this Thread/Petition?

I don't know how I feel about DBZ battles being allowed personally. I agree both sides were to blame but thats part of the problem. I don't know what it is but everyone just goes crazy in DBZ threads basically. There are some users are enjoying discussing DBZ like nickzambuto for example (we actually once had a captain america vs vegeta hand to hand debate in the who can beat captain america at hand to hand thread which was pretty fun with no flame wars, surprised the mods never noticed and stopped the discussion) but a lot of other good users act very badly in those threads.

It is possible the vine has matured since last time but I dunno if everyone can handle it. DBZ battles bring out the worst in almost everyone for some reason.

It's too bad all Manga and Anime isn't banned.

On the one hand I would love DBZ threads to be back.

On the other hand Marvel characters would never win...soooo idk

EDIT: Cause of the speed deficit obviously

@comicuser: Living Tribunal says hi.

@jashro44:

I think its because most people either really like it/love it or despise/hate it.

lol this actually only proves my point. THANK YOU.

CV has been over and over this. It needs to stay banned.

@comicuser: ?

I think thats part of it. I don't know if thats all of it though.

it's the thing like some people feels about flash these days (because of how he have been wan*** on this site) or batman after arriving of chew..... it's for some immature people, the characters take the heat.. now i can understand it's a comics site... if flame wars happen, manga/anime will take all of the heat.. but that doesn't mean that side of people are only responsible for it... for example, what he said is very true

now a days, people who doesn't watch dbz... or rather i say, more of a mainstream comic fans despises dbz characters (basically many just hates anime characters aswell and for some reason can't take it if any can defeat their equivalent mainstream characters)... as long as this goes on, flame war would ignite i guess.. what we need is to just ignore these kind of people.

Well of course DBZ alone isn't only at fault.

It's just that this is a comic website, not an Anime/Manga website.

So if frequent problems were arising that the Moderators and Staff were getting tired of dealing with, then logically they wouldn't ban a comic book staple like Superman.

With that being said, I would love DBZ to come back.

There are plenty of stupid threads on a daily basis that are created on the Vine, and Mods lock those with no problem.

I see no reason why the same treatment can't be given to DBZ threads. If they're blatantly unfair, lock them. Same as any other thread.

Jmarshmallow

These trial period things have already been tried a few times since the original ban. And every time a ban was lifted, it was generally DBZ against whatever that put it back to being banned. The most prominent unbanning I remember didn't even last 24 hours because users couldn't handle it. The original ban was put up for over 2 years before Vance decided to unban anime as a whole, sh*t still hit the fan for another 3-4 months. And for the first 3 months of me being a mod, most of these incidents were again in DBZ threads. Then I came up with the rule, got the other mods' approvals, and banned DBZ threads, albeit their being some exceptions. The rule written even acknowledges the fact that it wasn't just the DBZ fans, but both sides. Unfortunately for the anime fans, this is a COMIC site. I don't know why this must be pointed out in every one of these types of threads, but it has to. So we banned just DBZ because that was the root of it all. It wasn't just DBZ that was the whole problem but it was what the problem centered around with all of the flame wars that happened. Anime as a whole didn't need to be unbanned. I could have rebanned it, or Vance, DM, or Saren could have all placed the original anime ban back on, but we have not. DBZ, unless certain restrictions are placed on it, seems to need to remain.

My answer is no.

Exactly so. I don't know why new users always assume they're going to be the DBZ Messiah and convince the mods and staff to lift the ban.

@ssj_god: I think Jmarshmallow said basically what I would say to you so to quote him:

As I said I agree both sides were at fault but they can't ban comics...And DBZ battles can always be taken to animevice. I took out the second part because its just for the best IMHO. DBZ is cool but if you look through the older threads where the ban was lifted it was brutal.

Honestly I'm all for it. I would love for dbz character matches to come back.

But off topic is there really a difference between manga and a comic? Other than that one is Japanese and one is American? By bringing up the 'this is a comicbook site and not an anime/manga site argument' basically saying no Japanese allowed?

yeah.. you have to read manga from right to left instead of left to right... just pointing out one difference XD

still neutral till the mods decide.

nope, their fans are uncontrollable

Pretty much this.

Agreed and that is why I never understood why the trolls and flame war instigators aren't banned instead. That way the people who know how to have a civilized discussion regarding Dragon Ball vs other universes can do so. IMO the problem is not Dragon Ball, its certain individuals. If a rule is put in place that clearly states obvious trolls and flame war instigators will get IP banned, im sure less of that will happen, and the people that still decide to act like children will be banned. Then nobody has to worry about them anymore.

nope.. both sides (anime and comics) were uncontrollable... like @god_spawn said

though i don't think it's such a bad idea to generally take trial of dbz vs other mangas like naruto for a short time.. see how people behaves.

When was the last time you unbaned it? If your using past events as a basis for your reasoning, wouldn't that make the whole thing a bit fallible? I'm well aware of the comicvine battles board of old and how falmey it could get, however I'm rather positive this isn't the comicvine battles board from almost 2 years ago.

I think a final retry would be perfectly fine, despite how " tedious" it might seem for the moderators, no one is for certain if lifting the ban will have a negative impact. The board as a whole seems to be much better than in the times it was unbanned. The worst that could happen is it ends up not getting unbanned, and this would require minimal effort on the mods part unless a single troll goes around making DBZ charvter vs nigh omnipotent characters, and then someone would have to lock it, but even then the number of trolls like that we have are minimal.

I for one am interested and support this idea.

@hulkage: The magnitude of distruction on naruto episodes was easy done by vegeta with a ki blast (even if it takes three episode to complete). naruto characters are easily out matched by speed, stamina, ki/chakra gauge size, hand to hand "faster then the speed of light" combat, and strength. A lot of naruto characters revolve around weapons to make the kill (which make since) but weapons don't hurt a lot of these DBZ characters (because their reality allows them to go beyond human limitations). Narato characters are ninja humans who fight using clever strategy and careful thinking that take time to plan out. DBZ fights consist of using really really really really really fast punches and kicks and blasts and "Shoop the whoops" (look it up online) that some times destroy cities, and planets before a victor rises. Now even if the naruto characters where to match the DBZ in chakra usage, they would burn out to quickly. If a naruto character runs out of chakra then they will die, but if a DBZ character runs out of chakra then they fall into a peaceful sleep, wake up hungry and then eat a reasturant out of business in seconds and become then stronger (BRUH). But that's just meh opinion.

If you want to debate Dragon Ball, go to an Anime forum. Or better yet, a Dragon Ball forum.

@god_spawn: Do you really think it's fair though? To all the people that came to this site after the ban, that they can't enjoy discussing interesting scenarios here because someone two years ago said something that got some jimmies rustled? Say for example. If I went on every...I don't know, Batman vs. Anybody thread and started a flame war, would you be banning me or all Batman/Batman Family vs. Threads? More than likely, you'd come after me, because I was the one causing the problem. Goku, much like Batman, doesn't cause problems. It's the user that started the problem that should get punished, instead of an entire fanbase.

At the same time though, what's a Manga if not a Japanese comic book? And a lot of anime (probably most,) come from a Manga first anyway.

I personally think it's a solid idea. I understand, the mods may be a bit hesitant. They've been down this road before, but I also think they should listen to the users to some extent, as long as they can provide a logical viewpoint which I think has been done here. As long as that requirement has been met, and enough people support it, I see no reason we shouldn't be allowed to give something a try.

It won't be perfect, but as I said, maybe if we get rid of the people that actually start these flame wars, we would not only be doing the DB fanbase a favor, but I also think it would improve the climate of CV as a whole, which I think is what the mods try to do in general.

can't see the post.. did saren mentioned me anywhere?

@scouterv: If something like that happened, we wouldn't be as inclined to clamp down on, say, Batman threads, for the simple reason that this site's focus is western comics. ComicVine doesn't cover, review, preview or feature manga and anime. The site can do without DBZ. We can't do without Batman and Superman and Thor and Hulk and the rest of them, despite the problems those threads throw up. They're popular comic book characters and this is a comic book site. People come to talk about them. Even if both sides are to blame, there's obviously one side we're going to align ourselves with. DBZ is expendable. Comics are not.

We can't get rid of all the people that start those flame wars because there are a lot of them. That's not to say we couldn't ban them all --- we could --- but if we did, we risk incurring and spreading the reputation that ComicVine is a hostile place where the mods run amok banning people so if you want to discuss comic books, you're better off somewhere else. And if we don't ban them all, then the battles forum sinks into a quagmire of constant trolling. The DBZ ban wasn't just to clean up the battles forum, it was also to prevent wholesale bans of every user involved. It's all well and good to say we should give it a try, but we're the ones who have to clean up the mess. Say it goes well for a week because everyone's taking extra care to be on their best behavior. What happens once it's been allowed for a month or two, and people aren't concerned about the topic getting banned again?

DBZ threads were already given a second chance, and yet with warning after warning people still fail their second chance. And now people want a third chance.

So yeah, I vote no.

u're not right... i wasn't even around 1 year ago.. i didn't even got any 'first chance' and u're talking about third chance

don't you think new viners arrives at comic vine.. they could be less hostile than previous packs? would it hurt so much to give it a little try after say 2 or 3 years of the previous one?

@ssj_god:

Just don't use DBZ maths in battles, youtube is hardly a measure of DBZ fan quality but they keep getting rustled by screwattack

Why exactly was i tagged?

And again, your using far past expriences as a basis for your reasoning, thus it is fallible.

i never used fan calcs

@ssj_god: not that, but the powerlevel thing [which is used in series to disprove levels]and it ain't aimed at you [just folks in general, also you claimed you don't. Imma take your word for it.]

can't wait for new anime though

@ssj_god: I don't think the battles forum currently is any less hostile than it was a year ago, and I can think of at least 4 different users currently posting who would run riot with the expansion of the DBZ battles.

@nighthunder: Where did I tag you?

What am I supposed to use, if not past experiences? If I have to judge whether a measure is likely to succeed or not, how that measure or others like it have worked in the past is the only real criterion for me to judge by.