Name 10 rip off Characters and who they are a rip off of

Wow this topic spiraled into a ridiculous argument, that never happens on comicvine...lol

I think some of the people here are getting upset about a character being a ripoff of another character and trying to defend that character. Do not take it as a negative connotation. In the case of the HIGHLY debated She-Hulk, she is a rip-off of sorts. When she was created people sat back and said lets make a female Hulk, and then we were given She-Hulk. Yes she has developed into her own character, completely different from the "rip off" that she started as, but that does not change the fact she was a rip off. Read the definition of rip-off from the first page in this thread. If it makes you feel better you can say she was influenced by the character(Hulk), or she is an homage to the Hulk. Whatever makes you feel better, still has the same meaning, because She-Hulk was dam sure not created as a original character!

Wow this topic spiraled into a ridiculous argument, that never happens on comicvine...lol

I think some of the people here are getting upset about a character being a ripoff of another character and trying to defend that character. Do not take it as a negative connotation. In the case of the HIGHLY debated She-Hulk, she is a rip-off of sorts. When she was created people sat back and said lets make a female Hulk, and then we were given She-Hulk. Yes she has developed into her own character, completely different from the "rip off" that she started as, but that does not change the fact she was a rip off. Read the definition of rip-off from the first page in this thread. If it makes you feel better you can say she was influenced by the character(Hulk), or she is an homage to the Hulk. Whatever makes you feel better, still has the same meaning, because She-Hulk was dam sure not created as a original character!

@Vance Astro said:

@ntb1124 said:

Wow this topic spiraled into a ridiculous argument, that never happens on comicvine...lol

I think some of the people here are getting upset about a character being a ripoff of another character and trying to defend that character. Do not take it as a negative connotation. In the case of the HIGHLY debated She-Hulk, she is a rip-off of sorts. When she was created people sat back and said lets make a female Hulk, and then we were given She-Hulk. Yes she has developed into her own character, completely different from the "rip off" that she started as, but that does not change the fact she was a rip off. Read the definition of rip-off from the first page in this thread. If it makes you feel better you can say she was influenced by the character(Hulk), or she is an homage to the Hulk. Whatever makes you feel better, still has the same meaning, because She-Hulk was dam sure not created as a original character!

I know that She-Hulk isn't an original character but characters that come from the same idea aren't ALL rip-offs. If I created The Hulk and then I wanted to make a female version. That doesn't make the female version a "rip-off" of my original idea because the concept belongs to me. She's isn't an homage,she's isn't influenced by Hulk. The creator simply recycled and idea. Supergirl isn't a rip-off of Superman she's is an extension of the same idea and the same thing with all other Kryptonians.It's not hard to make that distinction.It only becomes a rip-off when someone else takes that idea and puts their own twist on it.

Here is the answer of how she was created....

"She-Hulk was created by Stan Lee, who wrote only the first issue, and was the last character he created for Marvel before his return to comics with Ravage 2099 in 1992. The reason for the character's creation had to do with the success of the Incredible Hulk TV series (1977–82). Afraid that the show's executives would suddenly introduce a female Hulk, resembling the popular Bionic Woman, Marvel decided to publish their own version of such a character to make sure that if a similar one showed up in the TV series, they would own the rights"------Copied from Wikipedia website.

I have read all the arguments you have all thrown back and forth, and I do not see how you can not concede that She-Hulk was created as a female version of the Hulk, yes she is her own character now, and one I actually enjoy now. If someone says lets make a female Hulk..that makes her a rip off....

Edit: forgot to through quotes around the paragraph which I copied from somewhere else

@Vance Astro: Sorry for the double post, not trying to troll you or anything....

I definitely agree about the Superman argument, other Kryptonions are not a example of rip-offs, that is a good example. The only way Super-girl will get the ripoff word thrown at her is because of the name thing, but I will give you credit that this is not a rip off but rather a addition to character history and mythos. I just think that She-Hulk is a example of hey lets make a female Hulk. Although I will ask was Jennifer introduced into the comics before she became She-Hulk? I never read that far back.

@Hawkeye446 said:

No, I can;t stand you because of this. You are arrogant, and can;t even consider what other are saying. What is the point in having a discussion with someone that is not ready to listen, but to attack. It's idiodic.

All I'm doing is stating my belief and giving evidence for why I'm correct that is all.

@Hawkeye446 said:

I was merely acknowledging Vance's comments, because he happens to be the only other person that is willing to dispute your comments.

That's my point though. You shouldn't worry so much if someone agrees or disagrees with you.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Because I have seen Ms Marvel up their with the greats on MANY occasions. Like I have stated before, Marvel, IMO, are trying to edge Ms. Marvel into a major role within the Universe.

They tried doing that in her last series and have her lead the avengers but she still played a lesser role with Tony Stark actually running things. I wish they did give female characters some better time in the spotlight but Marvel has been known not to do this.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Also, keep in mind, those events transpired years ago. Perhaps I will have to re-read the issue, but I am pretty sure she didn't hate her son, and therefore, she wouldn't want him to be harmed? regardless of how it happened.

I'm talking about the Avengers who didn't seem to care at all about her being raped and mysteriously becoming rapidly pregnant.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Also, I find that comment somewhat ironic...

To each his own.

@Vance Astro said:

You can deny it if you want the truth is obvious.

Yeah, the truth being that she hulk is a rip off is quite obvious.

@Vance Astro said:

You say this as if a TON of female characters have had books. I only named 3 because there hasn't been that many. Those are the only 3 I could think of off the top of my head.

I was being a smart ass since you said

Marvel has given several female characters on-goings

@Vance Astro said:

No.You took what I said several times to mean that they are inferior. I never said that. Don't tell me i'm flip-flopping on something I NEVER said.

So should I say you implied it a dozen times instead?

@Vance Astro said:

You're making an assumption of what Marvel cares about. They aren't dropping X-23 because they don't care. This isn't the only book that has been dropped recently.Ghost Rider and Spider-Girl are still going (Ghost Rider is a female now), so obviously they still have some interest in pushing female characters.

I don't see how what I stated was inaccurate considering Daken's book sells less copies than X-23 but is still going. Being honest here Marvel tends to not care about their female characters.

@Vance Astro said:

Your words. Not mine.

Oh I'm sorry you stated

They aren't as important because they are female.

@Vance Astro said:

Marvel doesn't make their female characters inferior to their male counterparts. They make them in hopes that they can sell a female character with a help of a formula that already works.

What Marvel does is make female characters based off male ones having them as sidekicks and eventually throw them on a team. They don't push for them to have their own title because marvel doesn't care about them.

@Vance Astro said:

I didn't say that they were inferior to them. I said not as important.

Its the samething Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

If you didn't understand what I meant..what I meant was characters that can keep their book afloat don't get major events.

Simply put Marvel doesn't care about them since they are viewed as being inferior to top selling male characters that they are based off.

@Vance Astro said:

Female characters aren't inferior, they simply don't sell. The Punisher doesn't sell as well as Iron Man. That doesn't make him an inferior character or concept..it just means people are more interested in Iron Man. A character's importance is only as large as his\her fanbase. Which is why Wolverine is on like 5 teams.

Difference here between Punisher vs the female rip off characters is marvel while usually completely f****** up the Punisher every few years does go about bringing in top talent to work on his books such as Garth Ennis and Greg Rucka. They also do promote the character as well something they don't do for female characters.

@Vance Astro said:

No, because the Hulk is one of Marvel's premier heroes. It has nothing to do with "rip-offs" you're just saying it.

How does it have nothing to do with being rip off exactly? Hell, She Hulk's page on this wiki even states she's a rip off of the Hulk.

@Vance Astro said:

I know what I said. Reposting what I said and bolding my exact words doesn't change the fact that you clearly misinterpreted my post. Your subordinate argument holds now wait unless you could prove how people perceive Ms.Marvel in comparison to Captain Marvel.

I already explained this several times Vance and I'm getting tired of repeating myself. You really need to pay attention to what you are replying to in comments...and what you write as a response.

@Vance Astro said:

I'm suggesting that people are more likely to find sex appeal in a character that is an female adult rather then one who is "underdeveloped". The fact that people may be attracted to X-23 doesn't mean that Marvel's goal was to use her as a sex symbol. You'd really just be assuming that. There's no facts to back that up.

Do you have any facts to prove me wrong?

@Vance Astro said:

The definition isn't wrong.You are.They aren't cheap imitations.

They meet the definition Vance so they are rip offs if you can't deal with it that's your problem.

@Vance Astro said:

In your opinion.Not factually.

Yes, it is factual and this sites wiki backs up what I'm saying.

@Vance Astro said:

They are his ideas. So no he didn't.

Actually it wasn't even his idea

Though Stan Lee is credited as the creator of She-Hulk, the character was not originally his idea. The initial reason for She-Hulk's creation was to gain exclusive rights to a female Hulk character. The idea was born during the 1970's run of the live-action "Incredible Hulk" television series. The show enjoyed such success that CBS considered making a female Hulk spin-off series. If CBS had gone through with it, they would have owned the rights to She-Hulk. But Marvel got wind of their idea and acted quickly, getting Stan Lee to write the first issue of a She-Hulk comic book series, with artist John Buscema doing the pencils.

http://www.comicvine.com/she-hulk/29-1449/

Regardless She Hulk is an obvious rip off of the Hulk.

Darth Vader was heavily inspired by Doctor Doom, according to IGN.

Midnighter of Batman

My maejstic of Superman

Apollo of Ray Palmer

Captain Mar-vel of Superman

Thanos of Darkseid

Quasar of Green Lantern

Static of Spiderman

Doctor Manhattan of Captain Atom

Deadshot of Bullseye

@difficlus said:

Doctor Manhattan of Captain Atom

This is interesting since the Captain Atom of the new 52 and that of the Countdown series (forgot which Earth) were heavily influenced by Dr. Manhattan. Kinda went back full circle. Hehe! Same goes with the original concept of Question to Rorschach to DCAU Question.

Edit: Not Countdown. It was FC Superman Beyond that had a Manhattan-esque Captain Atom.

The She-Hulk rip-off of Hulk issue is still ongoing?!? Wow! Well she would be a rip-off of Hulk if and only if the Biblical Eve is a rip-off of Adam. Which is very sexist methinks.

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984 said:

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984: So you think Superboy is a rip-off?

Yes, he is a clone of superman intended to take his place when he died so yes he is a rip off.

Actually he was never intended to replace Superman, Superman coming back was planned from the start. Okay, so what about Legacy characters? Do they count as rip-offs to you?

Going by what our wiki states

@cody1984 said:

@ssejllenrad said:

For pity's sake! She-Hulk is a spin-off not a rip-off!

She's both actually. She got enough attention from the Hulk series to get her own but concept wise she is a complete rip off of the Hulk. A Spin off character is simply a character a part of another series who gets enough popularity to get their own series.

Like Elektra

@Vance Astro said:

You can deny it if you want the truth is obvious.

Yeah, the truth being that she hulk is a rip off is quite obvious.

@Vance Astro said:

You say this as if a TON of female characters have had books. I only named 3 because there hasn't been that many. Those are the only 3 I could think of off the top of my head.

I was being a smart ass since you said

Marvel has given several female characters on-goings

@Vance Astro said:

No.You took what I said several times to mean that they are inferior. I never said that. Don't tell me i'm flip-flopping on something I NEVER said.

So should I say you implied it a dozen times instead?

@Vance Astro said:

You're making an assumption of what Marvel cares about. They aren't dropping X-23 because they don't care. This isn't the only book that has been dropped recently.Ghost Rider and Spider-Girl are still going (Ghost Rider is a female now), so obviously they still have some interest in pushing female characters.

I don't see how what I stated was inaccurate considering Daken's book sells less copies than X-23 but is still going. Being honest here Marvel tends to not care about their female characters.

@Vance Astro said:

Your words. Not mine.

Oh I'm sorry you stated

They aren't as important because they are female.

@Vance Astro said:

Marvel doesn't make their female characters inferior to their male counterparts. They make them in hopes that they can sell a female character with a help of a formula that already works.

What Marvel does is make female characters based off male ones having them as sidekicks and eventually throw them on a team. They don't push for them to have their own title because marvel doesn't care about them.

@Vance Astro said:

I didn't say that they were inferior to them. I said not as important.

Its the samething Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

If you didn't understand what I meant..what I meant was characters that can keep their book afloat don't get major events.

Simply put Marvel doesn't care about them since they are viewed as being inferior to top selling male characters that they are based off.

@Vance Astro said:

Female characters aren't inferior, they simply don't sell. The Punisher doesn't sell as well as Iron Man. That doesn't make him an inferior character or concept..it just means people are more interested in Iron Man. A character's importance is only as large as his\her fanbase. Which is why Wolverine is on like 5 teams.

Difference here between Punisher vs the female rip off characters is marvel while usually completely f****** up the Punisher every few years does go about bringing in top talent to work on his books such as Garth Ennis and Greg Rucka. They also do promote the character as well something they don't do for female characters.

@Vance Astro said:

No, because the Hulk is one of Marvel's premier heroes. It has nothing to do with "rip-offs" you're just saying it.

How does it have nothing to do with being rip off exactly? Hell, She Hulk's page on this wiki even states she's a rip off of the Hulk.

@Vance Astro said:

I know what I said. Reposting what I said and bolding my exact words doesn't change the fact that you clearly misinterpreted my post. Your subordinate argument holds now wait unless you could prove how people perceive Ms.Marvel in comparison to Captain Marvel.

I already explained this several times Vance and I'm getting tired of repeating myself. You really need to pay attention to what you are replying to in comments...and what you write as a response.

@Vance Astro said:

I'm suggesting that people are more likely to find sex appeal in a character that is an female adult rather then one who is "underdeveloped". The fact that people may be attracted to X-23 doesn't mean that Marvel's goal was to use her as a sex symbol. You'd really just be assuming that. There's no facts to back that up.

Do you have any facts to prove me wrong?

@Vance Astro said:

The definition isn't wrong.You are.They aren't cheap imitations.

They meet the definition Vance so they are rip offs if you can't deal with it that's your problem.

@Vance Astro said:

In your opinion.Not factually.

Yes, it is factual and this sites wiki backs up what I'm saying.

@Vance Astro said:

They are his ideas. So no he didn't.

Actually it wasn't even his idea

Though Stan Lee is credited as the creator of She-Hulk, the character was not originally his idea. The initial reason for She-Hulk's creation was to gain exclusive rights to a female Hulk character. The idea was born during the 1970's run of the live-action "Incredible Hulk" television series. The show enjoyed such success that CBS considered making a female Hulk spin-off series. If CBS had gone through with it, they would have owned the rights to She-Hulk. But Marvel got wind of their idea and acted quickly, getting Stan Lee to write the first issue of a She-Hulk comic book series, with artist John Buscema doing the pencils.

http://www.comicvine.com/she-hulk/29-1449/

Regardless She Hulk is an obvious rip off of the Hulk.

@cody1984 said:

@ssejllenrad said:

For pity's sake! She-Hulk is a spin-off not a rip-off!

She's both actually. She got enough attention from the Hulk series to get her own but concept wise she is a complete rip off of the Hulk. A Spin off character is simply a character a part of another series who gets enough popularity to get their own series.

Like Elektra

@Vance Astro said:

I'm not going to keep arguing with you over the parts of my post that you misinterpret.

I didn't misinterpret anything Vance.

@Vance Astro said

If you're tired of repeating yourself, stop twisting my words.

I didn't twist your words Vance. You keep saying they are inferior and then try to say they are not. You are flip flopping being inconsistent.

@Vance Astro said

Let's try this again. This argument started because YOU suggested that She-Hulk wouldn't have a long running series because she is a rip-off of the Hulk.

Actually no, the argument started because I stated She Hulk is a rip off of the Hulk and people on here like you got offended that a character they liked got called a rip off.

@Vance Astro said

I refuted that claim by presenting the margin between Marvel female superheroes who you would consider rip-offs and ones who have no connection as far as powers and origin to any male heroes.

You didn't refute anything Vance you stated your stupid opinions trying to act like they are facts which you always do in threads and is the reason why I said you have way to high an opinion of yourself. Me I posted the definition of what a rip off was and showed that She Hulk matched the definition something you haven't be able to refute at all. Instead, you go on pointlessly with arguments that are incoherent.

@Vance Astro said

She-Hulk,Ms.Marvel,& Elektra may not have long running series in comparison to other female heroes outside of Marvel but their series have run longer than any other Marvel female superheroes.

How many times must you repeat this? Its not even a point just a useless statement.

@Vance Astro said

Which clearly proves that being a "rip-off doesn't" have anything to do with their lack of sales.

No it actually doesn't Vance. Since those characters I mentioned vs. the rip offs you did still have series unlike She Hulk, Ms. Marvel, and the recently cancelled X-23.

@Vance Astro said

Secondly you tried to use characters like Wonder Woman,Red Sonja,Witchblade,etc. being unique and having longer running series then that of Marvel's "rip-offs". When in actuality DC publishes more comics with female leads then any other publisher and all but one are based on a more popular male character and Supergirl has run longer than every female character accept Wonder Woman and Vampirella and Batgirl is following close behind.

Vance let me break this down for you. You can go on and on about rip off characters having this series or that series...but it doesn't really matter for a few reasons

1. They are still rip off characters

2. They still have shorter running series then the most original female superhero character Wonder Woman. So being unique has its advantages over being a rip off.

3. You can mention marvel and dc having spider girl and other female centered series with relatively long runs. They still get cancelled and they aren't pushed to become more popular by marvel and dc as Dynamite pushes its female characters.

@Vance Astro said

Obviously being a "rip-off" has nothing to do with sales.

Obviously it does actually.

@Vance Astro said

You trying to promote some difference between The Punisher and the female characters we were already talking about isn't going to fly.He's not different.

Okay, your smoking f****** crack now.

@Vance Astro said

His story arcs have never had the impact of those of Marvel's characters like Iron Man,Thor,Hulk,Wolverine,Spider-Man,Daredevil,The Avengers,etc.

He's had three movies made about him, multiple video games, a pretty stable line of merchandise marvel produces based on the Punisher. He has had three own going series before during the 80's into the early 90's and has two ongoing series now. His recent comic relaunch sold over 80,000 units and his last 3 have sold in the 70,000 range. The character has name recognition outside of comics unlike she-shulk, ms. marvel, and Spider Woman. You can ask people on the street about the Punisher and they will have an idea of who you are talking about. Ask them about Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, and Spider Woman and their just going to ask "Are they female rip offs of the regular character" which the answer is yes.

@Vance Astro said

That doesn't mean he's inferior to them, it simply means he's not as important to the Marvel Universe which he's not.

Difference here between the Punisher and the female rip off characters that we've been talking about is the fact the fans of the female rip off characters generally want them to play a bigger role in the marvel universe. Punisher fans are almost all the exact opposite not wanting Frank Caslte involved much in the marvel universe. Their a few reasons why Punisher fans don't want Frank heavily involved in the main marvel universe

1. The Punisher kills his enemies. Since marvel likes to keep their top villains around the Punisher isn't going to be allowed to kill them which makes any type of confrontation the Punisher has with them make the character look bad since he can't do his job.

2. The Punisher doesn't work well with others. The character is a loner and doesn't actually fit in the superhero world of 616. You have to suspend a lot of disbelief if you have the Punisher team up with the avengers since the Punisher is a serial killer has body count exceeds that of most the villains they fight. So if the Punisher and the avengers cross paths the avengers should actually be trying to capture him not aid him or team up with him. Only a few characters like Blade and Moon Knight could care less about the Punisher killing most have problem with it.

3. Its been tried before and done really really badly with Frank ending up joining the mob, become a stupid angel, and turning into a reject from the munsters.

4. If you were actually going to make it work so that Frank could join a team like the avengers you'd have to butcher his character and after years of reading MAX and Chuck Dixon's work on the Punisher fans just aren't going to buy it. Especially looking at the previous retarded attempts at doing so.

@Vance Astro said

So you're "not important=inferior" argument is BS.

You chose the worst possible BS example to try and prove my argument wrong Vance and the fact you didn't realize that is pretty bad.

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984: I once again ask, no, demand to know your opinion on Legacy characters. Is Mac Gargan a rip-off of venom even though he used to be Scorpion? Is the second White Tiger a rip-off because she was introduced out of nowhere? Is Hobgoblin a pile of insane rip-offs of a rip-off? I want answers good sir.

First you said legacy characters. I don't read spiderman so I didn't know what the hell you are talking about and thus couldn't respond.

Second don't demand anything of me.

Third I was going to give you an opinion once I know what they were but since you demanded I'm not going to give you one now.

Actually no, the argument started because I stated She Hulk is a rip off of the Hulk and people on here like you got offended that a character they liked got called a rip off.

@cody1984

You didn't refute anything Vance you stated your stupid opinions trying to act like they are facts which you always do in threads and is the reason why I said you have way to high an opinion of yourself. Me I posted the definition of what a rip off was and showed that She Hulk matched the definition something you haven't be able to refute at all. Instead, you go on pointlessly with arguments that are incoherent.

@cody1984

@Vance Astro said

Obviously being a "rip-off" has nothing to do with sales.

Obviously it does actually.

@cody1984

He's had three movies made about him, multiple video games, a pretty stable line of merchandise marvel produces based on the Punisher. He has had three own going series before during the 80's into the early 90's and has two ongoing series now. His recent comic relaunch sold over 80,000 units and his last 3 have sold in the 70,000 range. The character has name recognition outside of comics unlike she-shulk, ms. marvel, and Spider Woman. You can ask people on the street about the Punisher and they will have an idea of who you are talking about. Ask them about Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, and Spider Woman and their just going to ask "Are they female rip offs of the regular character" which the answer is yes.

@cody1984

Difference here between the Punisher and the female rip off characters that we've been talking about is the fact the fans of the female rip off characters generally want them to play a bigger role in the marvel universe. Punisher fans are almost all the exact opposite not wanting Frank Caslte involved much in the marvel universe. Their a few reasons why Punisher fans don't want Frank heavily involved in the main marvel universe

1. The Punisher kills his enemies. Since marvel likes to keep their top villains around the Punisher isn't going to be allowed to kill them which makes any type of confrontation the Punisher has with them make the character look bad since he can't do his job.

2. The Punisher doesn't work well with others. The character is a loner and doesn't actually fit in the superhero world of 616. You have to suspend a lot of disbelief if you have the Punisher team up with the avengers since the Punisher is a serial killer has body count exceeds that of most the villains they fight. So if the Punisher and the avengers cross paths the avengers should actually be trying to capture him not aid him or team up with him. Only a few characters like Blade and Moon Knight could care less about the Punisher killing most have problem with it.

3. Its been tried before and done really really badly with Frank ending up joining the mob, become a stupid angel, and turning into a reject from the munsters.

4. If you were actually going to make it work so that Frank could join a team like the avengers you'd have to butcher his character and after years of reading MAX and Chuck Dixon's work on the Punisher fans just aren't going to buy it. Especially looking at the previous retarded attempts at doing so.

@Vance Astro said

So you're "not important=inferior" argument is BS.

You chose the worst possible BS example to try and prove my argument wrong Vance and the fact you didn't realize that is pretty bad.

I'm cutting down on what all I respond to because most of this is beyond pointless.

@Vance Astro said:

This isn't true. Go back and look at my first response to you.

It's when you started responding to me to Vance. I know you have false high opinion of yourself but the arguing just to argue is getting old.

@Vance Astro said:

Then why are Supergirl and Batgirl still running? And why are characters you call rip-offs the only female characters that sell at Marvel?

Already explained this Vance. I could tell you to go back and read my earlier posts but your not going to do that so continuing with this is a waste of my time.

@Vance Astro said:

All of this is irrelevant to the point. Nobody asked for you to run down Punisher's credentials. Fact of the matter is he's less important than those characters that I named and thus in the same category as Marvel's female characters.Nobody was disputing his popularity over them.

You don't have a point Vance. Your trying to claim one well known character like the Punisher is in the same boat as lesser known female rip off characters like She Hulk. The characters and the fan bases are very...very very different. Also popularity and sales according to your previous posts are one of the main reasons why books get dropped. I know you'll try and come up with some BS response to claim otherwise since you can't ever admit when you are wrong.

@Vance Astro said:

Who cares what the fans want? That's irrelevant.

WTF? Vance marvel tried to ignore what Punisher fans wanted several times. Each time they did so they ruined the character and had to bring in top writers like Garth Ennis and Greg Rucka to fix the character because the sales dropped so much marvel had to drop the series. The Punisher's fan base is quite different then the regular superhero character fan base. Which I already explained and you ignored because it made you look rather bad and disproved your point. Fans of the Punisher when he was written by Fraction and Remender didn't like what they were doing and have stated they'd rather marvel just completely drop the 616 book then do the stupid things they were doing with the character at the time. People stopped buying the 616 book and Marvel had to make the relaunch the 616 series for the third time after Garth Ennis moved the Punisher into the MAX imprint. The new series is a lot like the MAX series since that is what the fans wanted. When you go against what the fans want and they stop buying the book it will get dropped and the company has to start paying attention to what its consumers want or they won't be able to sell the product. In this case the fans didn't want the Punisher involved in a bunch of events and have the character derailed.

@Vance Astro said:

The fact is that The Punisher DOESN'T play a bigger role in the Marvel Universe because he's not as important as other characters.

He doesn't play a bigger role in the marvel universe for the reasons I listed which you ignore because you know I'm right.

@Vance Astro said:

Therefore he's not different.

I really don't get how you can lie to yourself constantly like you are doing here Vance.

I'm cutting down on what all I respond to because most of this is beyond pointless.

It's when you started responding to me to Vance. I know you have false high opinion of yourself but the arguing just to argue is getting old.

Already explained this Vance. I could tell you to go back and read my earlier posts but your not going to do that so continuing with this is a waste of my time.

You don't have a point Vance. Your trying to claim one well known character like the Punisher is in the same boat as lesser known female rip off characters like She Hulk. The characters and the fan bases are very...very very different. Also popularity and sales according to your previous posts are one of the main reasons why books get dropped. I know you'll try and come up with some BS response to claim otherwise since you can't ever admit when you are wrong.

He doesn't play a bigger role in the marvel universe for the reasons I listed which you ignore because you know I'm right.

I really don't get how you can lie to yourself constantly like you are doing here Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

Only because my point was already proven pages ago.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep better at night Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

In other words. I was right so for some reason you're throwing some bullsh#t in about my opinion of myself (which is completely irrelevant) instead of just conceding.

I'm not conceding anything Vance I'm saying trying to have a conversation with you is like trying to have a conversation with someone mentally challenged.

@Vance Astro said:

If i'm arguing just to argue..you could always stop responding.

Normally I would Vance but you need to get reminded about your false opinion of yourself...and then their is the small matter of me being right as well.

@Vance Astro said:

Yet you responded?

I could ask you the same question.

@Vance Astro said:

Their fanbases are irrelevant because neither of them have a fanbase that is comparable to the characters that Marvel shows the most attention.

Now its a pissing contest for which character has the largest fanbase? Anyway, you know your wrong and this is just pathetic.

@Vance Astro said:

You're deviating from the point. Which is The Punisher is less important than several of Marvel's heroes. Which doesn't make him inferior it only means that people are more interested in other characters.

First you try to take the topic elsewhere because you know your wrong...then you give some bs about the Punisher being the same as She Hulk...now that you see this isn't working your trying to say the Punisher isn't popular. This is pretty pathetic.

@Vance Astro said:

I ignored them because they are false. If The Punisher was more popular he would play a bigger role.

I swear to god some people fall on their head to much as children. This has been explained to you several times and your stating this bs because you know your wrong. The reasons where already given your being extremely ignorant now.

@Vance Astro said:

But he's not and he doesn't. Using things like "not playing well with others" and "killing his enemies" is clearly bogus seeing as how there are more popular characters with the same traits.

Name them then Vance. Don't state it back it up. Provide names of characters who are serial killer, antihero, vigilantes that are as popular as the Punisher.

@Vance Astro said:

As long as you're the only one that believes that..it really doesn't matter.

Oh I assure you I'm not the only one who doesn't respect you at all.

Mister Majestic rip-off of Superman

Invincible rip-off of Superman

Sentry rip-off of Superman

Quick Silver rip-off of The Flash

Hawkeye rip-off of Green Arrow

Nova rip-off of Green Lantern

Aqua-Man rip-off off Namor

Shadowhawk rip-off of Wolverine

Pretty much all I can think of on the spot.

I'm not conceding anything Vance I'm saying trying to have a conversation with you is like trying to have a conversation with someone mentally challenged.

@cody1984

Normally I would Vance but you need to get reminded about your false opinion of yourself...and then their is the small matter of me being right as well.

@cody1984

Now its a pissing contest for which character has the largest fanbase? Anyway, you know your wrong and this is just pathetic.

@cody1984

First you try to take the topic elsewhere because you know your wrong...then you give some bs about the Punisher being the same as She Hulk...now that you see this isn't working your trying to say the Punisher isn't popular. This is pretty pathetic.

@cody1984

Name them then Vance. Don't state it back it up. Provide names of characters who are serial killer, antihero, vigilantes that are as popular as the Punisher.

Shadowhawk rip-off of Wolverine

@Vance Astro said:

I can't make you do anything you don't want to do. Doesn't change the fact that you were wrong.

No Vance I really am right about what I said.

@Vance Astro said:

You said this in response to something I said that was true and instead of just saying "you were right".

The problem Vance is what you said was wrong and you know it you're just making yourself look like an ass.

@Vance Astro said

You're trying to insult me.

It's very easy to insult you Vance but that wasn't what I was doing.

@Vance Astro said

I don't care how you feel about my opinion of myself.

Apparently you do or you wouldn't bother to comment on it.

@Vance Astro said

I love how you're making this personal. It's a simple argument about comics.

I'm not taking it personally Vance I'm just pointing out you can be a pain in the ass to have conversation with.

@Vance Astro said

Actually no. It's not.

Yes it is.

@Vance Astro said

I actually never took the topic anywhere. I used the Punisher as an example to make a point.

You took the topic from debating that she hulk was rip off to she is in the same level that the Punisher is in without making relevant point.

@Vance Astro said

I never said that the Punisher wasn't popular. Way to completely misconstrue what I said..AGAIN!

You stated that she was in the same category as She Hulk and you have stated she is not as popular and is important as other characters because she is female. That's why I made the statement about you smoking crack.

@Vance Astro said

The Punisher is the same as She-Hulk in the sense that he is LESS popular than certain other characters.

This has what to do with female characters being rip offs and treated as inferior to male characters exactly? You've been pushing this subject further and further away from what I originally posted about on this site talking about things that aren't related.

@Vance Astro said

Your reasoning for why the Punisher isn't more involved in the Marvel Universe was because he kills his enemies,

That is one reason yes. That is one of several reasons why Garth Ennis moved the character to the MAX imprint and is something Greg Rucka has discussed several times in interviews as well. Which has nothing to do with female characters being rip offs of male characters and being viewed as inferior which I originally posted about.

@Vance Astro said

he doesn't work well with others (which is false).

Microchip is dead.

Stuart Clarke is dead.

Henry Russo almost died several times and the Punisher won't work with him again.

@Vance Astro said

Plenty of Marvel Heroes have purposely killed their enemies and not because they had to (Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man,Sentry not as the Void).

Not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

@Vance Astro said

There is also plenty of Avengers that aren't great team players (Hulk,Daredevil,Ares,Red Hulk).

Once again none of those characters are serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum and this has absolutely nothing to do with female characters being rip offs and treated as inferior to male characters which is what I posted about originally.

@Vance Astro said

You may not be but you're in the minority.

No I'm definately not Vance.

No Vance I really am right about what I said.

@cody1984

Apparently you do or you wouldn't bother to comment on it.

@cody1984

I'm not taking it personally Vance I'm just pointing out you can be a pain in the ass to have conversation with.

@cody1984

You took the topic from debating that she hulk was rip off to she is in the same level that the Punisher is in without making relevant point.

@cody1984

You stated that she was in the same category as She Hulk and you have stated she is not as popular and is important as other characters because she is female. That's why I made the statement about you smoking crack.

@cody1984

Microchip is dead.

Stuart Clarke is dead.

Henry Russo almost died several times and the Punisher won't work with him again.

@cody1984

@Vance Astro said

Plenty of Marvel Heroes have purposely killed their enemies and not because they had to (Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man,Sentry not as the Void).

Not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

@Vance Astro said:

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

Another classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

@Vance Astro said:

Commenting on it doesn't mean I care.

Yeah it actually does. Especially with you earlier stating "WTF are you talking about?"

@Vance Astro said:

You are taking it personally.

Pointing out you can be a pain in the ass to talk to is not taking things personally its pointing out that you can be a pain in the ass.

@Vance Astro said:

Otherwise you wouldn't be trying to insult me.If you have such a huge issue with having a conversation with me..why do you keep doing it?

I already explained this.

@Vance Astro said:

To me that looks like jealousy.

LOL!!!

@Vance Astro said:

You responded to a post where someone was giving me props earlier and used that to try and take jab at me.

Yeah because that guy is insecure is hell about a character he liked being called a rip off and needed others to agree with him to boost his confidence that is what I commented on.

@Vance Astro said:

You're not fooling anyone.

@Vance Astro said:

No, you simply didn't understand the point.As usual.

No I did Vance you went off topic to what I was saying taking the conversation elsewhere when you knew you were wrong.

@Vance Astro said:

Her not being as popular as him doesn't have anything to do with the comparison. You made that statement as an attempt at insult.

I made it because it had absolutely nothing to do with what I was originally talking about.

@Vance Astro said:

Irrelevant. The Punisher has worked with numerous heroes over the years and has even been on several teams.

What almost 20 years ago in the Mike Baron days? Marvel Knights he wasn't even a member of. The book was about street level characters that the Punisher was in but he wasn't part of the group. It never made sense that he was on the secret avengers but that's Matt Fraction for you and it only lasted what 3 issues in his comic before he got kicked out of the team? Yeah, that really worked well. Ultimate Avengers he was literally forced to work for by Nick Fury and Shield. His appearances in Moon Knight v6 didn't even have him and moon knight teaming up together it just had Frank making a guest appearances. For the last decade the Punisher has not worked well with superheroes. That is a fact and the team ups don't last

@Vance Astro said:

You think he's the only character who has dead supporting cast members?

I can't think of another character with so few side kicks that had turned against the lead and try to kill that character hating them.

@Vance Astro said:

Your point has absolutely nothing to do with mine.

Gee let's see you stated

Plenty of Marvel Heroes have purposely killed their enemies and not because they had to (Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man,Sentry not as the Void).

I stated

Not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

Yeah I'd say my point had everything to do with yours and that yours was complete bs.

@Vance Astro said:

The point was that The Punisher is less POPULAR than several characters.

Huh? First you stated

Plenty of Marvel Heroes have purposely killed their enemies and not because they had to (Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man,Sentry not as the Void).

Which I responded to and now your saying you were talking about popularity? You need to start making some sense Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

The reasoning behind it is irrelevant.

More like the fact you can't handle being wrong and when you are proven wrong try saying you were talking about something else or you just say its irrelevant.

@Vance Astro said:

His lack of popularity in comparison doesn't make him inferior to those said characters.

The Punisher is less popular then Ares, Ms. Marvel, and Sentry?

@Vance Astro said:

If you want to say being a "serial killing antihero vigilante" is holding him back; whatever it doesn't change the fact that he's not as popular them.

I would respond to this but considering the fact you have stated in other topics that you believe Fraction's run on the Punisher was better then Garth Ennis run on the Punisher in the MAX imprint. I'm just going to leave this comment alone.

The Punisher is less popular then Ares, Ms. Marvel, and Sentry?

@Vance Astro said:

@cody1984 said:

The Punisher is less popular then Ares, Ms. Marvel, and Sentry?

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post as most of it just more childish attempts at insults or irrelevant but i'm responding to this specifically because I don't what you to think this is what I meant.

Vance if you didn't want to give the impression that is what you meant you shouldn't have quoted what I said then type "His lack of popularity in comparison doesn't make him inferior to those said characters." You should've been specific.

@Vance Astro said:

I lumped these characters in with more popular ones because you said that you would have to suspend disbelief if you have the Punisher team up with the Avengers because is a serial killer but obviously there are plenty of Avengers that have killed enemies and it hasn't kept them from being Avengers.

You really don't pay attention man. This isn't me being an ass this is me being serious. I already explained this when I stated

Not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

All of the characters you mentioned Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man, and Sentry can and have stopped killing. The Punisher won't ever stop killing scum because he is a serial killer. That is the major difference between him and the characters you mentioned.

@cody1984: All of the insults and flamebait pictures aren't necessary. You can either be nice or don't say a word to him. Your choice.

Vance if you didn't want to give the impression that is what you meant you shouldn't have quoted what I said then type "His lack of popularity in comparison doesn't make him inferior to those said characters." You should've been specific.

All of the characters you mentioned Ms.Marvel,Ares,Wolverine,The Hulk,Iron Man, and Sentry can and have stopped killing. The Punisher won't ever stop killing scum because he is a serial killer. That is the major difference between him and the characters you mentioned.

Gladiator, Sentry - Superman

Squadron Supreme - JLA

She-Hulk - Hulk

Ms. Marvel - Captain Mar-Vell

Moon Knight - Batman

Quicksilver - Flash

Drax the Destroyer - Hulk

X-Men - Doom Patrol

Apocalypse - Darksied

Imperiex - Galactus

Impossible Man - Mxyzpltk

@Vance Astro said:

I had already been specific in a previous post. You're telling me that I don't pay attention yet if you had actually read my post you would know what I meant.

I did read what you said Vance and I showed you what you stated. You can't keep claiming you mean something else every time you type you something wrong and expect people to believe that..

@Vance Astro said:

I said that the Punisher is less popular than "certain characters" I didn't say THOSE characters I said "certain".

You quoted what I stated before Vance. That shows you were talking Ares, Ms. Marvel, and Sentry. You really do need to work on your communication skills.

@Vance Astro said:

That part of my post was away from the Avengers I was naming who have killed their enemies.

You did both Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

This isn't really true for any of them but Ms.Marvel and maybe Iron Man.The others simply haven't had the opportunity (accept Sentry).

Yeah it is Vance. Either way though not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

@Vance Astro said:

BTW I'm done so you can respond if you want but there's no point in arguing with you anymore.

I hope this is true since you've been making a bunch of nonsense claims for several pages now just making yourself look bad and wasting my time.

I did read what you said Vance and I showed you what you stated. You can't keep claiming you mean something else every time you type you something wrong and expect people to believe that..

You quoted what I stated before Vance. That shows you were talking Ares, Ms. Marvel, and Sentry. You really do need to work on your communication skills.

Yeah it is Vance. Either way though not one of those characters you listed is a serial killing antihero vigilante that won't stop murdering scum. Those are the major differences between the Punisher and the characters you listed.

I hope this is true since you've been making a bunch of nonsense claims for several pages now just making yourself look bad and wasting my time.

@Vance Astro said:

@IIDEADxPOOLII said:

Shadowhawk rip-off of Wolverine

I think his older version was a rip-off was Batman as well.

Yea, true

Haf and Haf from Dick Tracy

Two-Face, anyone?

@fACEmelter88 said:

They usually look more alike but still they're pretty similar

Oh God, that's horrible.

Gladiator Ripoff of Superman.

But I wanted to address the Superman/Sentry thing.

Marvel actually made Sentry a character, not just a 'I can beat everyone, I have every power, and I'm boring as balls', so I don't consider him a Supes rippoff cause his story/personality/depth is a lot different.

If anyone saw the MAD (or was it cracked)? where they discuss TMNT and Sex and the City...

@rpgr said:

If anyone saw the MAD (or was it cracked)? where they discuss TMNT and Sex and the City...

It was Cracked.

@SC said:

1. Thanos - actually a rip off of Metron - he even had a chair and everything - his evolution lead him to bulking up a bit more and thus comparisons and influence from Darkseid were made referenced. Source: The Anti Ignorance Formula. 2. Superman - Ripped off Philip Wylie's Gladiator and Hercules 3. Batman - Zorro 4 - ∞. All other comic characters - Ripped off either Batman or Superman. Oops, only 1 to 10... nyeh, ∞ was more interesting to me *grin*

The creator of Thanos literally made him so he could write more Darkseid stories once he left DC.

@SC said:

1. Thanos - actually a rip off of Metron - he even had a chair and everything - his evolution lead him to bulking up a bit more and thus comparisons and influence from Darkseid were made referenced. Source: The Anti Ignorance Formula. 2. Superman - Ripped off Philip Wylie's Gladiator and Hercules 3. Batman - Zorro 4 - ∞. All other comic characters - Ripped off either Batman or Superman. Oops, only 1 to 10... nyeh, ∞ was more interesting to me *grin*

The creator of Thanos literally made him so he could write more Darkseid stories once he left DC.

I think the Thanos\Darkseid comparison is more made because Thanos is to the Eternals what Darkseid is to the New Gods.

I think the Thanos\Darkseid comparison is more made because Thanos is to the Eternals what Darkseid is to the New Gods.

moon knight, daredevil are rip off of batman

hyperion and gladiator are rip offs of superman

deadpool is a rip off of deathstroke

aquaman is a rip off of namor

thanos is a rip off of darkseid

• Batman is a rip off of Zorro
• Hulk is a rip off of Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde
• Superman is a rip off of Hugo Danner
• X Men a rip off's of Doom Patrol

@spiderbat87: yah he is, similar background [parents or parent getting killed] lame rip off rogue gallery.

@spiderbat87: yah he is, similar background [parents or parent getting killed] lame rip off rogue gallery.