Name 10 rip off Characters and who they are a rip off of

@Vance Astro said:

My point wasn't that those characters aren't selling or aren't being pushed because they aren't unique. They aren't being pushed because Marvel gets more out of their male counterparts. They don't sell because Marvel fails to give them the same level of significance or more so than that of Male characters. Their male heroes have huger story arcs and more impact on the Marvel Universe. They never have Spider-Island,World War Hulk,Shadowland level story arcs. They are very isolated in their solos and treated as secondary on teams. Wonder Woman's significance to DC as a character is far greater than what significance Marvel would put on any of their female heroes.

Which is a problem for those characters since they are based off a male one that they don't become the star of big series and events. Ms. Marvel was somewhat close to this in her last series but still played a secondary role to Ironman. Which is the problem with characters like Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman, and She Hulk. They are rip offs of male characters and always play a secondary role to other male characters. Seeing Spider Woman take over as leader of the avengers for 60 issues drop the custom and name and just go by Jessica Drew and have her get and ongoing series dealing with things outside of the avengers mythos would be a start to making a rip off character like her become somewhat unique and show a female character in a more positive light as a figurehead able to not just hang with the guys but compete against them. Marvel hasn't done this and instead tries to rehash them as secondary characters each and every time which ends up with these characters not being able to hold their own series.

I can definitely sympathize with the sentiment that it's unfortunate to see companies pander to fans by changing the gender of a popular character just to induce sales. It's an easy out with little or no thought put into it. However there are often characters who develop from older more canonized "sexual opposites" that become their own given enough time. She-Hulk is a very good example. Initially the idea of a "She-Hulk" must have sounded like a total ripoff of her cousin. But Jen Walters is a very respected character in the Marvel Universe and I think it's well deserved. I have similar feelings about Barbara Gordon. I think she was terrible as Batgirl ( I have however seen her portrayed excellently by certain writers so her Batgirl persona definitely had potential to it) but I loved her as Oracle. Not too mention Cassandra Cain was a wonderful Batgirl or Kate Kane as Batwoman. Three characters who at first glance were poor imitations of Batman, but they really deserve to wear the cowl and only serve to promote and progress the mythos. Inter-company ripoffs are a different can of worms. If someone is truly uncreative you can tell. But sometimes companies create something of an homage to the original. Or perhaps instead of an homage it's more of an insult. Either way it's recognition that can be permissible if the character copy has thought and feeling put into it. As long as it's inspired I don't consider it to be a ripoff at all.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Why does it hurt her? Hulk is immensely popular.

Because she is given the complex of always being inferior to the Hulk and being better suited to a secondary role instead of a starring one.

@Hawkeye446 said:

She was different. She was generally aware of her hulkness, and she didn't lose her intelligence. She was made a funny, and witty character.

She is still a rip off of the Hulk due to her name, powerset, and looks. Nothing can change that about the She Hulk character.

@Hawkeye446 said:

This is the flaw with Jen supposedly being a rip-off.

No, its not. She has a different personality then the Hulk...who cares? X-23 and Daken have different personalities then wolverine yet those characters are still rip off characters.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Their characters are so different.

Let's see Green skin? Check

Same powerset? Check

Similiar name? Check

Nope not seeing the extreme differences here that make the character not a rip off of the Hulk.

@Hawkeye446 said:

And like I said above, instead of 'transforming' she was stuck as the Hulk with intelligence intact, ergo, making her different.

Hasn't the Hulk had banner's intelligence before? Either way it still doesn't change the fact that she is a female version of the Hulk meaning she is a rip off of the Hulk.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Also, she would always be tied to Bruce, as they are cousins.

Maybe to a point but a write could make the two characters have a falling out so they aren't always tied together.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Even if she had different powers she would probably be just as involved.

Perhaps but if she didn't have the same powers, looked different, and didn't call herself she hulk she wouldn't be a rip off character.

i didn't really know a lot about this ripped off idea thing, but seems as if marvel copied a lot of dc characters,no?

@Vance Astro said:

@EdBlank said:

Goku and any other superstrong flying g-d like character

Goku is nothing like Superman and is actually based on Son Goku\Sun Wukong from the story "Journey to the West".

Not neccesarily. Goku from the start of Dragonball was Toriyama's rendition of Sun Wukong (though the tightening crown was introduced waaaay later in Broly). Bo-staff as weapon, travelling in the clouds (nimbus in DB), his father-in-law is the Ox King. Yamcha is Sha Wuji, Oolong the pig is Zhu Bajie, Krilin is the monk Xuanzang, etc. This goes on until the end of the first series (DB ends with Goku's win in the tournament). By the start of the second season Dragonball Z, the Saiyan's are introduced. This is where he becomes Superman-esque. His history is somehow "retconned" to mirror that of Superman and his ties to Wukong are seemingly disregarded.

@cody1984 said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

Why does it hurt her? Hulk is immensely popular.

Because she is given the complex of always being inferior to the Hulk and being better suited to a secondary role instead of a starring one.

@Hawkeye446 said:

She was different. She was generally aware of her hulkness, and she didn't lose her intelligence. She was made a funny, and witty character.

She is still a rip off of the Hulk due to her name, powerset, and looks. Nothing can change that about the She Hulk character.

@Hawkeye446 said:

This is the flaw with Jen supposedly being a rip-off.

No, its not. She has a different personality then the Hulk...who cares? X-23 and Daken have different personalities then wolverine yet those characters are still rip off characters.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Their characters are so different.

Let's see Green skin? Check

Same powerset? Check

Similiar name? Check

Nope not seeing the extreme differences here that make the character not a rip off of the Hulk.

@Hawkeye446 said:

And like I said above, instead of 'transforming' she was stuck as the Hulk with intelligence intact, ergo, making her different.

Hasn't the Hulk had banner's intelligence before? Either way it still doesn't change the fact that she is a female version of the Hulk meaning she is a rip off of the Hulk.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Also, she would always be tied to Bruce, as they are cousins.

Maybe to a point but a write could make the two characters have a falling out so they aren't always tied together.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Even if she had different powers she would probably be just as involved.

Perhaps but if she didn't have the same powers, looked different, and didn't call herself she hulk she wouldn't be a rip off character.

You are being irrational.

Not only did you bring up Daken and X-23, different characters to She-Hulk. You told me yesterday that when I mentioned Batman and Black Panther that had nothing to do with it. And yet here you are, doing the exact same thing.

And since WHEN is have similar name/costume/powers a rip-off. You are neglecting the Major point that the character has to be an inferior copy.

I suppose Hawkeye Mark II is a rip off of the original? Yes? And that Scott Lang is a rip-off of Hank Pym? Because they were even more similar then the Hulk and She-Hulk?

And heather Hudson is a rip-off of her husband? Even though they were a duo of sorts, she obviously ripped him off, because she has the same costume, powers, AND name as one stage.

Or Jocasta ripped off her creator Ultron for being a shiny silver robot? Of course, her personality has nothing to do with her character right? It all depends on her powers, super name, and costume? Right?

And what do you mean they are tied together? So she has a similar name. They rarely have anything to do with each other in comics. Like I said, if Bruce gave her blood and something else happened they may be just as close. And FYI, they CAN have a falling out even though they have similar powers/skin/name, y'know why? Because they are DIFFERENT.

Back to your point with Daken/X-23. If you compare the differences with Logan, COMPARED to the differences between Jen and Bruce, they aren't as significant.

And I don't even understand how being closely related to Bruce is making her a secondary character? If the writers want to make her a star, THEY CAN. She has become very popular in her own right. They could do anything with her.

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@VENOMCATEXE said:

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Sigh... They're not rip-offs. They just happen to look alike by non-correlating accident. Nyehehehehehe!

Not neccesarily. Goku from the start of Dragonball was Toriyama's rendition of Sun Wukong (though the tightening crown was introduced waaaay later in Broly). Bo-staff as weapon, travelling in the clouds (nimbus in DB), his father-in-law is the Ox King. Yamcha is Sha Wuji, Oolong the pig is Zhu Bajie, Krilin is the monk Xuanzang, etc. This goes on until the end of the first series (DB ends with Goku's win in the tournament). By the start of the second season Dragonball Z, the Saiyan's are introduced. This is where he becomes Superman-esque. His history is somehow "retconned" to mirror that of Superman and his ties to Wukong are seemingly disregarded.

Which is a problem for those characters since they are based off a male one that they don't become the star of big series and events. Ms. Marvel was somewhat close to this in her last series but still played a secondary role to Ironman. Which is the problem with characters like Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman, and She Hulk. They are rip offs of male characters and always play a secondary role to other male characters. Seeing Spider Woman take over as leader of the avengers for 60 issues drop the custom and name and just go by Jessica Drew and have her get and ongoing series dealing with things outside of the avengers mythos would be a start to making a rip off character like her become somewhat unique and show a female character in a more positive light as a figurehead able to not just hang with the guys but compete against them. Marvel hasn't done this and instead tries to rehash them as secondary characters each and every time which ends up with these characters not being able to hold their own series.

@Vance Astro: Ok, so he's not Superman. But Goku is as far to Wukong as he is to Superman if not farther by the time Z started. Wukong is not an Alien. Wukong does not have energy projection. Wukong does not upgrade to a higher level. Wukong has no instant transmission. Goku can not transform. Goku cannot multiply himself. Goku cannot change his hair into different things. Everything that Goku has in connection to Wukong was either minimalized or forgotten. Stretch stick, nimbus, etc.

Edit: This may be besides the point but Wukong and Superman has a power that Goku does not. And that is the freeze breath. Yeah Wukong has freeze "spell" but whatever.. :D

@Hawkeye446 said:

You are being irrational.
Not only did you bring up Daken and X-23, different characters to She-Hulk. You told me yesterday that when I mentioned Batman and Black Panther that had nothing to do with it. And yet here you are, doing the exact same thing.

I brought up Daken and X-23 since they have different personalities but are clearly rip offs of Wolverine. I didn't get into with Batman and Black Panther again because I don't care about those characters, I didn't bring them up, and your trying to make the argument that everything is a rip off of everything so their is no such thing as a rip off. Sorry...but that doesn't argument doesn't work since the concept of rip off does exist and is one of the reason why we have copyright laws. So I'm not going to be responding to must of your post since your trying to make a false argument.

@Hawkeye446 said:

You are neglecting the Major point that the character has to be an inferior copy.

I already explained this clearly.

@Hawkeye446 said:

And what do you mean they are tied together? So she has a similar name.

Which is clearly copycatting the Hulk making her a rip off character.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Because they are DIFFERENT.

Yeah, She Hulk is the female rip off version.

@Hawkeye446 said:

Back to your point with Daken/X-23. If you compare the differences with Logan, COMPARED to the differences between Jen and Bruce, they aren't as significant.

They are rip off characters it doesn't matter which one is more of a rip off.

@Hawkeye446 said:

And I don't even understand how being closely related to Bruce is making her a secondary character?

Because it leads to the character having the stigma of being inferior to the Hulk since she was created as a female version of him and is never in a star role like the Hulk and that is something that has been going on for years and is not easily overcome if it can even be overcome.

@Hawkeye446 said:

f the writers want to make her a star, THEY CAN. She has become very popular in her own right. They could do anything with her.

Not if fans don't buy it.

@ssejllenrad said:

@VENOMCATEXE said:

Madrox dupe #1 - Madrox

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Sigh... They're not rip-offs. They just happen to look alike by non-correlating accident. Nyehehehehehe!

No one told them that so fair game. ( I had an inkling someone would quote that post and try and give a technical answer, thanks for the affirmation *facepalm*)

@VENOMCATEXE: Re-read my post and tell me where the technical answer in there.. Sigh.... Or maybe you just didn't get the joke. Tsk tsk.

@Vance Astro: Ok, so he's not Superman. But Goku is as far to Wukong as he is to Superman if not farther by the time Z started. Wukong is not an Alien. Wukong does not have energy projection. Wukong does not upgrade to a higher level. Wukong has no instant transmission. Goku can not transform. Goku cannot multiply himself. Goku cannot change his hair into different things. Everything that Goku has in connection to Wukong was either minimalized or forgotten. Stretch stick, nimbus, etc.

Edit: This may be besides the point but Wukong and Superman has a power that Goku does not. And that is the freeze breath. Yeah Wukong has freeze "spell" but whatever.. :D

@Vance Astro said:

They don't become the star of events because they aren't as important.

Which is the problem isn't it? Being rip off of male characters makes them less important then the male characters.

@Vance Astro said:

It doesn't have anything to do with their connection to male characters.

Yeah it does because like you said "they aren't as important" the reason being is they don't have a starring role because they weren't intended to when they were created and when they got their own series they still didn't get to become stars because they never were to begin with and the status quo remained.

@Vance Astro said:

Ms.Marvel doesn't have to worry about her male counterpart. Captain Marvel is an obsolete title.

I'd say the damage is already done. Ms. Marvel played a subordinate role to Captain Marvel and has since then been subordinate to other male characters as well.

@Vance Astro said:

They have no excuse for not giving her, her own lane. Instead of her being second in command to Tony Stark, they could have easily made her the leader of the Mighty Avengers but they didn't They let Iron Man do it. The fact that she's anything like Captain Marvel has NOTHING to with why they didn't.

They probably didn't think it would work since she was also underneath popular male characters being able to hang with them but not be on the same level as they are.

@Vance Astro said:

Female characters don't sell that well. It's a fact.

True, but the female characters I mentioned don't help the situation.

@Vance Astro said:

Even the ones that have no connection to any other heroes pale in comparison to males.

I think most of us know why it pales in comparison so much.

@Vance Astro said:

They are getting overshadowed by characters that people simply like more.

Which has a lot to do with marketing and the companies viewing these rip off characters as inferior.

@Vance Astro said:

People didn't stop reading She-Hulk because she's related to Hulk..that's the reason they read it in the first place.

True, but the she can't keep on an ongoing series and if it wasn't for her appearing in other people's books she would've faded into obscurity.

@Vance Astro: A lot of those characteristics can be seen in a lot of non-Wukong-based Animes and of course the name is like that. As I said earlier, Goku is Wukong in DB and I don't think they'll change his name to another if it tranisitioned to DBZ. I still am not convinced that he is Wukong come DBZ. I believe he left it all out when the second series began. I already agreed he's far from Supes. It just so happens that I also believe he's far from Wukong by DBZ time period.

Which is the problem isn't it? Being rip off of male characters makes them less important then the male characters.

Yeah it does because like you said "they aren't as important" the reason being is they don't have a starring role because they weren't intended to when they were created and when they got their own series they still didn't get to become stars because they never were to begin with and the status quo remained.

I'd say the damage is already done. Ms. Marvel played a subordinate role to Captain Marvel and has since then been subordinate to other male characters as well.

Which has a lot to do with marketing and the companies viewing these rip off characters as inferior.

Didnt Stan Lee his self said the whole X-men idea was off Superman. There is actually of him saying this on the original Xmen cartoon .

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

@Vance Astro: A lot of those characteristics can be seen in a lot of non-Wukong-based Animes and of course the name is like that. 

 As I said earlier, Goku is Wukong in DB and I don't think they'll change his name to another if it tranisitioned to DBZ. I still am not convinced that he is Wukong come DBZ. I believe he left it all out when the second series began. I already agreed he's far from Supes. It just so happens that I also believe he's far from Wukong by DBZ time period.

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

@ssejllenrad:

Oh a thousand pardons. The flu must really be getting to me. I re-read it and see your were being funny. I got confused and thought you were being annoying.

My mistake! ^_^

@Vance Astro: I'm not saying he's not based on Wukong. What I keep on saying is that when Dragonball Z came, Toriyama deviated so much from the original concept of Wukong that you can almost no longer see the Wukong influence. I never denied that he was based on Wukong. And as for being a rip-off, no it is not. Dragonball was his rendition of the Journey West just like how Disney treats its fairy tales. It just had more liberties in them.

 And as for being a rip-off, no it is not. 

@Vance Astro: One last thing regarding DBZ and I'll concede and let this die. Dragonball was conceived by Toriyama (according to him) as a "funny version" of The Journey West. So in the end, it's not exactly a rip-off but a spoof.

it's not exactly a rip-off but a spoof.

@Vance Astro said:

@ssejllenrad said:

And as for being a rip-off, no it is not.

Then you don't consider any of the characters already mentioned as rip-offs.

Ok I won't agree to this. In some cases I may not agree about them being rip-offs. But people like Superman for example are not of the same case. Superman was not Siegel and Shuster's own rendition of Wylie's Gladiator. He was a different case altogether. But his features were copied from Gladiator. And so he is a rip-off of Gladiator. But I will admit that sometimes I do allow pastiches as not rip-offs but simple tributes.

@Vance Astro said:

@ssejllenrad said:

it's not exactly a rip-off but a spoof.

Same thing.

Wait. Your definition of spoof and rip-off is the same?

Wait. Your definition of spoof and rip-off is the same?

Ok I won't agree to this. In some cases I may not agree about them being rip-offs. But people like Superman for example are not of the same case. Superman was not Siegel and Shuster's own rendition of Wylie's Gladiator. He was a different case altogether. But his features were copied from Gladiator. And so he is a rip-off of Gladiator. But I will admit that sometimes I do allow pastiches as not rip-offs but simple tributes.

@Vance Astro said:

Again, it has nothing to do with them being a "rip-off". It has EVERYTHING to do with them being female. Every female character ISN'T a rip-off. The only Marvel female characters that have had on-goings and don't have a male counterpart are Rouge,Dazzler,& Silver Sable. Obviously the first two being X-Men were using the popularity of their team to sell books and Silver Sable is a product of Spider-Man but still their books haven't run as long as She-Hulk,Ms.Marvel,or Elektra.

Of course it has everything to do with them being rip off characters. They were made as inferior female versions of male characters and get treated as so even to this day.

@Vance Astro said:

They aren't as important because they are female.If Marvel never intended to make them "stars" when they created them it's because they are female and THAT'S the problem.

Its because they are female that they get based off male characters because the company views female characters as inferior which you even agree with in this post I'm replying to.

@Vance Astro said:

Ms.Marvel is a bigger character than Captain Marvel.There isn't any excuse.

It's not an excuse its a legitimate reason. She was made inferior to him and has been a subordinate character ever since.

@Vance Astro said:

Marvel doesn't see "rip-off characters" as inferior nor do they consider the characters mentioned rip-offs. The Sentry is clearly based on Superman but has had a larger impact on the Marvel Universe than She-Hulk. Moon Knight is clearly based on Batman and has had a longer running series than She-Hulk. It has nothing to do with "rip-offs".Just gender.

Difference between Sentry, Moon Knight, or even Batman who is a rip of Zorro is the fact the characters they are ripping off are not in the marvel universe. Unlike Spider Woman, Ms. Marvel, and She Hulk being shown to be inferior to the male version they are a copy of and doomed to always have supporting role and never a starring one.

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Because, I'm right and you can't stand that.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Are you really that insecure?

@Vance Astro said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Word.

You have way to high an opinion of yourself Vance.

I don't think Distaff Counterparts count as rip-off as they're usually created by the same people who created the original. It's very hard to rip off yourself isn't it?

Also Batman isn't a rip-off of Zorro. Sure, Zorro was the inspiration, but the characters are completely different.

@Vance Astro said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Word.

You have way to high an opinion of yourself Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

@cody1984 said:

@Vance Astro said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Word.

You have way to high an opinion of yourself Vance.

WTF are you talking about? All i'm doing is acknowledging a comment someone made to me. There is not opinion in that post at all...

LMAO. Regardless of what whether or not he does, he's right.

Of course it has everything to do with them being rip off characters. They were made as inferior female versions of male characters and get treated as so even to this day.

@cody1984

Its because they are female that they get based off male characters because the company views female characters as inferior which you even agree with in this post I'm replying to.

@cody1984

It's not an excuse its a legitimate reason. She was made inferior to him and has been a subordinate character ever since.

@cody1984

Difference between Sentry, Moon Knight, or even Batman who is a rip of Zorro is the fact the characters they are ripping off are not in the marvel universe. Unlike Spider Woman, Ms. Marvel, and She Hulk being shown to be inferior to the male version they are a copy of and doomed to always have supporting role and never a starring one.

@Vance Astro:

Pastiche is a tribute. It's not a rip-off.

Rendition is a version of another character. That is not a rip-off.

Archetype is following a trend maybe even a cliche. It's not a rip-off.

A parody is a rendition presented in a humorous manner. It's not a rip-off.

A burlesque is a rendition presented in an insulting manner. It's not a ripoff.

That's just me. It's clear that we can't see eye to eye on things and I'm just gonna let this die. Cheers mate.

@Vance Astro:

Pastiche is a tribute. It's not a rip-off.

Rendition is a version of another character. That is not a rip-off.

Archetype is following a trend maybe even a cliche. It's not a rip-off.

A parody is a rendition presented in a humorous manner. It's not a rip-off.

A burlesque is a rendition presented in an insulting manner. It's not a ripoff.

That's just me. It's clear that we can't see eye to eye on things and I'm just gonna let this die. Cheers mate.

@Vance Astro said:

I love how you completely disregarded my examples that clearly prove the point I made. Female characters who are based on male characters have a far better success rate in Marvel than those who don't.

I didn't disregard anything since what you stated didn't prove anything. You already admitted that sexism plays a large role in why female characters don't get long running series. As far as the female characters who are rip off of male characters getting more attention at marvel that shows more sexism to. Since they are pushing characters that are based off and inferior to male ones.

@Vance Astro said:

You have no factual basis for this Don't tell me what I agree with when you're responding to me disputing it. Maybe you misunderstood something I already said.

You stated that female characters were inferior to male characters which I even bolded in a previous post so I don't know why you say you don't agree with that now when you said you so earlier.

@Vance Astro said:

No it isn't.She wasn't made inferior to him. All of the Avengers are subordinates of Captain America yet they aren't all treated as inferior to him. Alot of them are treated as equals although they are under his command.

When has Ms. Marvel been treated as an equal to Captain America exactly? Afterall, Captain America and the Avengers were fine with her being mind controlled and raped. That's not exactly what I would call being equal.

@Vance Astro said:

They've all had on-goings so how are you saying they are doomed to never have a starring role?

Since they have never had a starring role perhaps? Or like you have said previously they aren't as important as the male characters.

@Vance Astro said:

You're not making any sense.

This is a classic of the pot calling the kettle black.

Previously you have stated that female characters are inferior and now you are questioning why they don't and can't have a starring role? Do you read what you previously write?

@Vance Astro said:

The only female character with an ongoing in Marvel right now is X-23..whom is a clone of Wolverine.

Yep, a female rip off version of Wolverine trying to sell some T&A. Though I can't say the X-23 character stands out for that since almost all female characters are designed for eye candy.

@Vance Astro said:

How can you possibly still be trying to push this "because they are rip-offs" argument.

Maybe...just maybe...I'm saying they are rip offs because they actually are.

I didn't disregard anything since what you stated didn't prove anything. You already admitted that sexism plays a large role in why female characters don't get long running series. As far as the female characters who are rip off of male characters getting more attention at marvel that shows more sexism to. Since they are pushing characters that are based off and inferior to male ones.

@cody1984

You stated that female characters were inferior to male characters which I even bolded in a previous post so I don't know why you say you don't agree with that now when you said you so earlier.

@cody1984

When has Ms. Marvel been treated as an equal to Captain America exactly? Afterall, Captain America and the Avengers were fine with her being mind controlled and raped. That's not exactly what I would call being equal.

@cody1984

Since they have never had a starring role perhaps? Or like you have said previously they aren't as important as the male characters.

@cody1984

This is a classic of the pot calling the kettle black.

Previously you have stated that female characters are inferior and now you are questioning why they don't and can't have a starring role? Do you read what you previously write?

Yep, a female rip off version of Wolverine trying to sell some T&A. Though I can't say the X-23 character stands out for that since almost all female characters are designed for eye candy.

@cody1984

Maybe...just maybe...I'm saying they are rip offs because they actually are.

@Vance Astro said:

Yes you did and my point was proven by my examples.

Nope.

@Vance Astro said:

Marvel has given several female characters on-goings that have powers and origins that are unique to them and they have no male counterpart.

What the whopping three you mentioned?

@Vance Astro said:

Yet those books have a much lower success rate than that of characters who you call "rip-offs".

They are rip offs they meet the definition of rip off.

@Vance Astro said:

Marvel doesn't have a sexist agenda by pushing those characters nor are they inferior.

You yourself have already stated multiple times that they are inferior. So which is it are the inferior, superior, or somewhere inbetween? Come on Vance, make up your mind already instead of flip flopping.

@Vance Astro said:

It shows that Marvel knows their target audience and how they think.

So your saying Marvel thinks their audience is sexist and thus applies that attitude to its books then?

@Vance Astro said:

If they know that female characters in their organization don't sell on their own. They are using other popular characters (whom just happen to be male) to sell them.

So just make them rip offs of male characters hoping the fans of those characters buy the books while making the female character inferior as to not threaten the character they are a rip off of? That actually does make some sense I'll give you that Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

I did admit that sexism plays a role in why female characters don't get long running series but that has to do with the readers not the company.

Yet Wonder Woman, Vampirella, Witch Blade, Red Sonya, etc. have long running series. So their is an audience out there for it...so that must mean marvel doesn't care all that much especially with them now dropping X-23's series.

@Vance Astro said:

If you bolded it, then you know that's not what I said.

No, that is what you said Vance. You really need to go back and start reading your previous posts before replying because you can't even keep up with what you have already stated just going off the top of your head.

@Vance Astro said:

What I said is that Marvel's female character will never be the "star" of a major event in the Marvel Universe because they aren't as important as male heroes.

Thus inferior.

@Vance Astro said:

I didn't say that they were inferior to them. I said not as important.

What you stated was

They aren't as important because they are female.

The only way you can interpet that Vance is that you are saying they are inferior.

@Vance Astro said:

If you didn't understand what I meant..what I meant was characters that can keep their book afloat don't get major events.

Because, according to you they are female and thus inferior to the male character.

@Vance Astro said:

She-Hulk will never have an event in her book equivalent to a World War Hulk because her sales are lackluster and the book could be cancelled at any time.

Which according to you is because

They aren't as important because they are female.

@Vance Astro said:

They can do an event like that in Hulk because they know people are reading it.

Because the Hulk isn't a blatant rip off of another character in the Marvel Universe and he is male.

@Vance Astro said:

If you tell me where my post says that. I'll answer that question. I never said that Ms.Marvel has ever been treated as an equal to Captain America. I said that All the Avengers are subordinates to Captain America yet they aren't all treated as inferior to him, SOME of them are treated as his equal. By some of them I meant Thor,Wolverine,Spider-Man,Hulk,Iron Man.

So just the boys then not the female characters which you previously claimed

No it isn't.She wasn't made inferior to him. All of the Avengers are subordinates of Captain America yet they aren't all treated as inferior to him. Alot of them are treated as equals although they are under his command.

Because that really sounded like you were trying to say Ms. Marvel was treated equally.

@Vance Astro said:

he point being, to say that she is inferior to Captain Marvel because she WAS his subordinate (probably years before half the people posting on CV were even born let alone reading comics), is ridiculous because being under someone's command doesn't make you inferior to them it only suggests they have a leadership quality that you don't.

When a character is always subordinate to others it does make them inferior to characters who are not. That is the perception that is given to the reader.

@Vance Astro said:

Maybe what you mean by starring roles isn't what I mean. They have had on-goings which means they have been the "star" of their own adventures and stories.

Not the stars though when the boys are around which was clearly what I was stating.

@Vance Astro said:

Maybe this would make more sense if you didn't misinterpret what I said.

I didn't misinterpret anything their.

@Vance Astro said:

You think that Marvel created a teenage female version of Wolverine for eye candy?

YES!!!! A female version that would be an eye candy version of wolverine.

@Vance Astro said:

Despite the fact they are both teenagers?

How does this matter exactly? Are you trying to say female teenagers have never been used as sex symbols before?

@Vance Astro said:

You don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the fact that it's possible they two characters that are immensely popular may possibly share fans with a female character that is like them because of their similarities?

Well their female so they don't sell books and X-23's is being dropped which is what you have stated about female characters. Not to mention the small fact X-23 is a rip off of the male version of the character...with an X in her name for good measure!

@Vance Astro said:

Eye Candy? Seriously?

Yup.

@Vance Astro said:

Or maybe you're skewing the definition.You posted it earlier and then totally overlook the criminal element involved and highlighted "copy or imitation".

They are cheap imitations so they meet the defination. If you have a problem with the defination then petition for the defination to get changed instead of trying to imply its wrong.

@Vance Astro said:

The characters you named are more "clones" than rip-offs because as was stated earlier in She-Hulk's case she was created by the same writer who created the Hulk.

She-Hulk is a blatant rip off of the Hulk. It doesn't matter if its the same company and man that created the characters She Hulk is a female imitation of the Hulk thus she is a rip off.

@Vance Astro said:

He can't rip himself off.

He can and did rip off the concept of previously created character.

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984: So you think Superboy is a rip-off?

Yes, he is a clone of superman intended to take his place when he died so yes he is a rip off.

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984: So you think Superboy is a rip-off?

Yes, he is a clone of superman intended to take his place when he died so yes he is a rip off.

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984 said:

@Dommed_Cannon said:

@cody1984: So you think Superboy is a rip-off?

Yes, he is a clone of superman intended to take his place when he died so yes he is a rip off.

Actually he was never intended to replace Superman, Superman coming back was planned from the start. Okay, so what about Legacy characters? Do they count as rip-offs to you?

Going by what our wiki states

Conner Kent or Superboy is a clone genetically created from material from Superman when he was killed by the creature known as Doomsday. A blood sample from Lex Luthor, was used as well, though it would be a long time before he became aware of his human donor's identity. He was created by Project Cadmus to replace Superman following his death and he was artificially aged to mid-teens and implanted with the necessary knowledge of someone of his biological age (in regards to general studies, such as math, reading, etc)

Don't follow superman since I never cared about the character his mythos...or characters based off him for that matter.

dr. manhattan is a ripoff of captain atom 
luke cage is a ripoff of shaft 

@cody1984 said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Because, I'm right and you can't stand that.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Are you really that insecure?

@Vance Astro said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@Vance Astro: I can't stand him any more. All yours sir.

Thanks for disputing his points, makes me feel like I'm not alone >.>

Word.

You have way to high an opinion of yourself Vance.

No, I can;t stand you because of this. You are arrogant, and can;t even consider what other are saying. What is the point in having a discussion with someone that is not ready to listen, but to attack. It's idiodic.

As of being insecure, that is another dumb statement. I was merely acknowledging Vance's comments, because he happens to be the only other person that is willing to dispute your comments.

When has Ms. Marvel been treated as an equal to Captain America exactly? Afterall, Captain America and the Avengers were fine with her being mind controlled and raped. That's not exactly what I would call being equal.

As for this, perhaps you don't read EVERY single comic? Is that Possible? Because I have seen Ms Marvel up their with the greats on MANY occasions. Like I have stated before, Marvel, IMO, are trying to edge Ms. Marvel into a major role within the Universe.

Also, keep in mind, those events transpired years ago. Perhaps I will have to re-read the issue, but I am pretty sure she didn't hate her son, and therefore, she wouldn't want him to be harmed? regardless of how it happened.

Also, I find that comment somewhat ironic...

Nope.

What the whopping three you mentioned?

You yourself have already stated multiple times that they are inferior. So which is it are the inferior, superior, or somewhere inbetween? Come on Vance, make up your mind already instead of flip flopping.

Yet Wonder Woman, Vampirella, Witch Blade, Red Sonya, etc. have long running series. So their is an audience out there for it...so that must mean marvel doesn't care all that much especially with them now dropping X-23's series.

Thus inferior.

So just make them rip offs of male characters hoping the fans of those characters buy the books while making the female character inferior as to not threaten the character they are a rip off of? That actually does make some sense I'll give you that Vance.

@Vance Astro said:

I didn't say that they were inferior to them. I said not as important.

What you stated was

They aren't as important because they are female.

The only way you can interpet that Vance is that you are saying they are inferior.

@Vance Astro said:

If you didn't understand what I meant..what I meant was characters that can keep their book afloat don't get major events.

Because, according to you they are female and thus inferior to the male character.

Because the Hulk isn't a blatant rip off of another character in the Marvel Universe and he is male.

So just the boys then not the female characters which you previously claimed

No it isn't.She wasn't made inferior to him. All of the Avengers are subordinates of Captain America yet they aren't all treated as inferior to him. Alot of them are treated as equals although they are under his command.

Because that really sounded like you were trying to say Ms. Marvel was treated equally.

@Vance Astro said:

he point being, to say that she is inferior to Captain Marvel because she WAS his subordinate (probably years before half the people posting on CV were even born let alone reading comics), is ridiculous because being under someone's command doesn't make you inferior to them it only suggests they have a leadership quality that you don't.

When a character is always subordinate to others it does make them inferior to characters who are not. That is the perception that is given to the reader.

@Vance Astro said:

Despite the fact they are both teenagers?

How does this matter exactly? Are you trying to say female teenagers have never been used as sex symbols before?

They are cheap imitations so they meet the defination. If you have a problem with the defination then petition for the defination to get changed instead of trying to imply its wrong.

She-Hulk is a blatant rip off of the Hulk. It doesn't matter if its the same company and man that created the characters She Hulk is a female imitation of the Hulk thus she is a rip off.

He can and did rip off the concept of previously created character.