My True Power! (Blog) Goku: Speed

MY TRUE POWER IS A BLOG WHERE I DISCUSS MANY INCONSISTENT CHARACTERS AND TRY TO FIND THEIR TRUE STRENGTH/SPEED/DURABILITY.

And I'm going to start with the easiest, and possibly the most used fanboy character on this site (Or at least before the DBZ battle ban) : Goku! To break it up and not make it so long, I'm going to break it into strength, speed, and durability (And possibly energy output, depending on the character.) H'el and Hancock, you're next.

Okay, folks. Here's the big one! It's been debated many times over the years whether DBZ characters are FTL, or just Mach 1000 or whatever! This is mainly confusing because of the anime and it's slow pace time. Well for this I will go by the manga and discuss GT as well.

So many people, when they want to discuss Goku's speed, naturally they use Snake Way because of it's actual time frame and length. So naturally we should use this right? Wrong.

• Traverse Times are irrelevant in the Dragonball World and only used to further the plot: as stated by Akira Toriyama, discussed in the Daizenshuu, and Common Sense
• It's also incalculable mainly because of all the loops and no spike is drawn the same, and to add to that, Snake Way wasn't drawn to scale in the first place.

So you might say I'm bluffing because of my claim that traverse speed is irrelevant in Dragon Ball, right? BUT:

• If Kami could teleport Goku, why didn't he use this to get to the Saiyan fight earlier?

Master Roshi, is fast enough to see machine gun bullets and catch them all with one hand:

Goku by the 2nd World Martial Arts Tournament he enters, moves so fast that Roshi (looking head on like the bullet) and everyone else looking from every perspective (360°) and varying distances (because it is not a proximity issue) cannot see him! He is moving so fast that he is invisible and only an echo of his movements can be detected.

To give you an idea of how fast Master Roshi must have been, an AK-47 bullet moves at a speed of 715 m/s, going by Death Battle's analysis, Goku would only be moving at 63 m/s... What...?

In the manga, it takes 6 months to get to King Kai's planet:

Dragon Ball is a story based on progression! The whole point of it is that he gets more powerful over time in the story:

Besides, Toriyama shows Snake Way as a quarter of the universe in his DB Universe drawing:

Toriyama wasn't concerned with how long 1,000,000 km is because he never draws anything to scale.

So the question is... Is there an actual figure we can go by to prove his actual speed as an adult in his prime?

Actually yes.

We're going back to Namek again!

In a V-Jump article, it states that Namek is the same size as Earth, or maybe more. I can't find this article, however, here's a good blog to prove it: Namek Map

Goku can travel half the distance of Namek in a max of a single second.

How did I reach this conclusion?

This was written by the manga's publi

sher, Shonen Jump. Thus, it is irrefutable canon.

The reason I reached the max of a second conclusion, is because Frieza said he was going to end it, meaning he was going to finish off Vegeta with one blow. He has his hand up, so that's actually generous considering the speed we see Frieza's strikes move.

The radius of Earth is about 12,726.2 km

So if we add the SSJ multipliers.

Base form: 12,756.2km/s^2

At SS1: 637,810km/s^2

At SS2: 1,275,620km/s^2

At SS3: 5,102,480 km/s^2

At SS4: 51,024,800km/s^2

At SSJ4, Goku is about 170x faster than the speed of light.

But there is proof that Goku could be much faster. If you discount all the above, read this article:

Science of Speed and Invisibility

“How fast would an object have to move to be invisible to the naked eye?

Could Dash from “The Incredibles” really run so fast that we could not see him?

The short answer is yes, Dash could run fast enough to be invisible. Exactly how fast he would have to run depends on many factors. For an object to be visible, light particles (photons) must bounce off the object and into your eye. There must be enough light that specialized neurons in the eye—the rod and cone cells that form the photosensitive pixels of the retina—are activated to a level that triggers awareness. If Dash zipped through your field of view so quickly that too little light from him reached your retina, you would not see him. What is the minimum amount of light required? In a classic experiment, people in complete darkness were exposed to flashes of light. Only the rod photoreceptors were sensitive enough to detect the light intensities used in this experiment. At the minimum flash brightness required to trigger visual awareness, only a handful of rods each absorbed just one photon. The implication is striking: single cells, capturing single particles of light, can trigger perception. However, at best, the rods can provide only a low-resolution image. To see and recognize Dash requires cone photoreceptors. Cones allow high-resolution color vision in brighter light. Unlike rods, individual cones must absorb many photons to generate a sizeable response.

And since each cone contributes a single pixel to the final image, many cones are required to “draw” Dash on the retina. If Dash were moving fast, photons bouncing off him would be scattered across many cones, and each of these cones might be insufficiently activated, so Dash would be invisible. If there were just a little more activation, he would appear as a blur. The less light there is, the more Dash can afford to take it easy. At noon when there is a surplus of photons, he has to be at his speediest to be invisible. Other factors are at play. One is eye movement. We never look steadily at a single point in space. We are not aware of it, but our eyes constantly dart from one location in the visual scene to another. They make small jumps that last about a fifth of a second. These jumps are called “saccades,” during which our visual system is suppressed. If Dash shot past during a saccade, you would not see him. If he ran past a crowd, chances are that at least some people would be in mid saccade and would miss him. The bottom line is, a complete answer to your question does not exist. How much light is required for a good cone signal, how activity across the array of cones is assembled into an image, how the visual system shuts down during a saccade, and other factors such as attention are active research areas. Answered by Michael Tri Do,_ an assistant professor at Children’s Hospital Boston,Harvard Medical School.”

In sum: photons move at light speed, it is photons bouncing of the object that allow us to see it, if the object were moving faster than light it would be moving faster than the photons can bounce off and therefore would be "invisible" to a human eye.

All of the above are proof Goku can fight and dodge at MFTL speeds!

Proof on How Speed in the Dragonball Universe is Depicted:

n Dragonball in the manga and the show the fight panels and scenes are slowed down so that we, the audience, can see it rather than doing it real time, every time.

Akira Toriyama made this clear with Krillen vs. Master Roshi fight in dragon ball: They have a full fight and conversation in less that a full second! And that was just in Dragon Ball

I'd post the rest of the fight, but it'd take too long to post.

I'm not saying that Dragon Ball characters always move at light speed, as there are certain parts in a fight that the audience in the crowd can see it. But when they disappear to the audience and in the manga, they are going much FTL.

Another thing about Dragon Ball character's speeds: Unlike other characters like Superman, or Silver Surfer, Dragon Ball characters have no need to accelerate in a fight. Superman, over time as he flies, gets faster! But, Dragon Ball characters can reach their max speed in combat, or when they are speeding toward their max, (Like with Goku when he realized his friends were in trouble and he raced to get to them.) In some ways, that makes their combat speed very OP. They would be akin to the Flash, as he can reach his max speed at any time, but he chooses to hold back. Dragon Ball characters hold back to conserve energy in fights (In theory)

I hope you enjoyed this analysis on Goku's speed! Next will be durability and energy output. Here's a link to my blog about Goku's strength: Strength

BUT THIS IS NOT MY FINAL FORM!!

I will also be working on other characters, including Hancock, and H'el!

If you feel I missed something, please leave a comment below, and I'll be sure to work it in the blog somehow. Blogs are made for editing anyway :)

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Interesting

@z3ro180: Thank you :)

Nice.

@uberathlete: Thanks for the feedback

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Awesome dude. Covered all the things that I would of said. will you be doing Ki output and other stuff? :D

MFTL speeds? I fail to see how you've proved that. Goku cannot move anywhere near at that speeds in the anime or manga. Your argument is consistent if some premises are accepted but the kind of feats you're talking about are relatively easy to resist. You are right on about the travel speed though. That was a ridiculous inconsistency in the Death Battle analysis. Your proposal is much more sound in that regard.

@lvenger: Thank you for the criticism :)

I'm not sure what points to address here. Whether DBZ characters are FTL, or if I'm wrong about the Namek feat. I'll just address the FTL part.

DBZ FTL stuff:

When I said they were massively faster than light, I didn't mean that they were billions of times faster than light. Massively FTL speeds can be considered that if they are as little as 100x, or even 1,000,000,000,000x

Now, as for the statement that he never moved that fast in the anime, or the manga, you're probably meaning that it was never stated in the anime or manga that they were light speed. But here's the thing about DBZ and Comics: Piecing together DBZ requires a totality view and not just a closed spectrum because unlike Comics, Toriyama does not just hand the reader the ascertainable figures because the story is one of progression, unlike per se, Superman or Spiderman. So if it never states that he is faster than light, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not. Toriyama rarely discusses power capacity or the feats of his characters. To say that fanmade accurate calcs are not accurate because it was never mentioned in the manga is just silly. If one actually read any of his interviews or seen any expansion he's worked on like BOG or Dragon Ball Online, they'd realize that the capabilities of his characters are well beyond what was ever been depicted. How can he be disregarding things when he's been on upping them from the start? For example, in a recent interview he revealed that the Kaioshin are capable of essentially creating life as well as create other planets by breaking up existing ones. This is a level of ability well beyond what was ever depicted. Another example would be the storyline to dragon ball online (a game he had a lot of involvement with. 10 years in fact) where Goku and Vegeta are so strong that the final battle between them after they left earth was like a supernova had occurred. This alone would raise many questions on how powerful the characters were considering neither were in their prime (late 60-70 age range).

Now that I got that out of the way, to the lightspeed stuff!

There are many instances that show that Goku, even in the Dragon Ball arc, he is shown to be FTL. I'll post those scans in moment. The article above details that the characters are FTL because even in Dragon Ball, they are in a stationary position being viewed from 360 degrees and instantly move still within the range of people who can see machine gun bullets, yet they are invisible.

Now, do not misunderstand my point. My point is NOT that Z warriors ALWAYS fight at light speed and massively faster, far from it as there are many times at the World Tournament where the crowd is able to see parts of the battle. However, as the above physics article discusses moving at just under lightspeed is still able to be seen from all angles depending on distance, but to be truly invisible like some parts of the fights in Dragon Ball and onward means that the characters were fighting at at least Light Speed or Faster.

Thus, if you discount the proven Namek traverse speed analysis and the fighting speed analysis in favor of one based on character depictions it only makes Goku even faster. This is because from Dragonball and onward the fighters are at least capable of fighting and dodging at light speed, but cannot necessarily always do it or cover a large distance at that speed based on how it is depicted in the story. BUT AGAIN we know Goku can cross Earth in one second as he did on Namek and that is his lowest proven speed feat so I am going to use that.

Krillin v Roshi fight also makes it clear that all the fights, even in the manga, are slowed down to the point that we, the audience, can see what's happening rather than going real time, all the time.

PROOF:

http://www.dbz.tv/3/watch/dragonball-episode-24/ Start at 9:23

So going by this information, and the scans I'm about to post, Goku can move at FTL speeds. Not necessarily over a large distance (thought that is debatable because Goku on Namek is faster than all of his traverse speeds, because he had gotten a huge speed increase, and he was racing to save his friends so he could have reached his top speed in his base form at that point.) Even if we were to say they were only hypersonic, they'd relatively be even faster because unlike other characters like Superman, they don't have the need to accelerate, and their combat speed would be faster than most characters. They would be akin to Flash, as his top speed, he can reach at any time due to the speed force, but he holds back.

Will post scans later.

@thereptile: Yep. As soon as I'm done with my blog about durability, I'll do a blog about energy output too. I'm also in a CAV debate with dccomicsrules2011 so be sure to check it out. (Although the actual debate isn't in full force yet, it's gettin' there :)

So Rock Lee can move FTL since he was invinsible except when he would strike. The fourth Raikage was moving so fast that he was invinsible since they thought he was dead even his presence was erased. Itachi can move his hands so fast that Kakashi owner of a sharingan couldn't track it. In Naruto they don't have human eyes. This is going by what you said above about being invisible.

interesting...but just prepare yourself

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Some thoughts from a newbie. Roshi ran the 100meter dash in 5.6 seconds with a power level of 138. He ran at 64kmh. The fact of the matter is that blurring in the anime doesn't mean bullet time. And something instantly accelerating to 64kmph will blur faster than the eye can see in short bursts.

Double the Power Level doesn't = double the speed, but let's say it does. That means Goku with a power level of 150,000,000 when he fought Frieza as SSJ1 is 1,086,956x as fast as Roshi. Goku would run that 100 meter dash in 0.000005152 seconds. Or at 69,565,217.3914kmph. Lightspeed is 1,079,252,848.8kmph.

SSJ1 Goku is 15x slower than light speed as SSJ1. It took Goku months to Travel to King Kai's world, only 1,000,000km. That's 262,800 minutes. Which puts his average speed at 228kmph for a duration of 6 months with a power level just beyond 400. Goku is nowhere near the speed fans claim he was back then. Which means that energy blasts don't travel at light speed and that cinematic time is abused heavily in the manga and the anime. Dragonball is inconsistent. That is the core of this argument. The entire Goku flying across Namek in a second is a total fallacy and abuse of editing and panels in the manga. Nothing ever stated he got there that fast.

The justifications for bullet dodging in the DB era is anticipation and when you can move and accelerate instantly to 100+KMPH, a bullet seems relatively easy to dodge to me. The human mind can anticipate at 0.17 seconds, so for someone that has a power level of 138, and if the average power level is 5, then that is 27x normal human capabilities. That equates to 0.006 second reactionary ability to their cognitive functions at only a power level of 138, which explains why they can only run at 64kmph and can still dodge bullets at close range. Combat speed vs Running speed.

The TLRD of that: SSJ1 Goku probably has light speed combat speed, but is 15x slower than lightspeed when it comes to anything else but short distance burst speed. Odds are good that nobody was a true lightspeed player until the Perfect Cell/SSJ2 Gohan match.

*splashes